Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Rescue 116 Crash at Blackrock, Co Mayo(Mod note in post 1)

1…7475777980…136

Comments

  • #2282
    kona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    Gaoth Laidir wrote: »
    Just listened to Jurgen Whyte on the radio now and it's pretty clear; no mechanical anomalies, therefore the only way part of the aircraft could be on Blackrock is by the aircraft hitting it, i.e. CFIT. Now the question is why.

    The reason won't be made public until the report comes out. Best way to deal with it too because of the way the muppets in the media will spin it.
    There won't be much discussion on it here either, anytime it was mentioned it would be deleted or jumped on by people outraged at such a thought. Which is unfortunate because it was always a valid point.
    With the way modern aircraft are, mechanical failure which leads to a loss of life these days is nowhere near as common as it used to be.
    Flight crews are human at the end of the day.


  • #2283
    Calina
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    The question has always been why the helicopter hit Blackrock. I would be nervous enough about asserting CFIT even now however particularly without knowing what the wreckage on the island consisted of and how exactly impact happened/was laid out/located.


  • #2284
    FixdePitchmark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,743 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    Gaoth Laidir wrote: »
    Just listened to Jurgen Whyte on the radio now and it's pretty clear; no mechanical anomalies, therefore the only way part of the aircraft could be on Blackrock is by the aircraft hitting it, i.e. CFIT. Now the question is why.

    It is a strange thing to say at this stage without full examination of helicopter ?

    The basis of this is perhaps study of alarms and position indication of instrumentation ?

    Did he say no mechanical instrumentation or control failure.

    How can you say only way . There is more to flight than mechanical ?


  • #2285
    kona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    FixdePitchmark wrote: »
    It is a strange thing to say at this stage without full examination of helicopter ?

    The basis of this is perhaps study of alarms and position indication of instrumentation ?

    Did he say no mechanical instrumentation or control failure.

    How can you say only way . There is more to flight than mechanical ?

    Well, if the aircraft was mechanically perfect how else would it crash?


  • #2286
    Gaoth Laidir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,261 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    FixdePitchmark wrote: »
    It is a strange thing to say at this stage without full examination of helicopter ?

    The basis of this is perhaps study of alarms and position indication of instrumentation ?

    Did he say no mechanical instrumentation or control failure.

    How can you say only way . There is more to flight than mechanical ?

    I should clarify that what I said about CFIT are my own words. Jurgen said no mechanical anomalies and they're now looking at human factors and operational issues.


  • Advertisement
  • #2287
    Buffman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭Buffman


    Gaoth Laidir wrote: »
    Just on the 90 versus 9 knots issue. The image showing 9 knots was only one image posted on pprune about 2 weeks ago. I don't think anyone has accessed that information from MT now. As far as I know MT is showing 90 knots and that's it, or am I wrong? Has anyone gotten 9 knots recently?

    Just on that, we discussed the MT speed discrepancy a few weeks ago and I'm still getting the same as I posted back then. (On a pc browser, not the app).
    Buffman wrote: »
    Originally Posted by Gaoth Laidir viewpost.gif
    It was 90 knots but I have seen a later fix of 9 knots posted on pprune
    Originally Posted by sparrowcar viewpost.gif
    Fix from 90 to 9kts or an amend from 90 to +/- 9kts (as in to 81 or 99kts)
    Serious question, hard to explain what I'm asking.
    It appears there is a discrepancy with the speed on the last AIS position report on Marinetraffic. For me, speed shows as 90kn in one section and 9kn in another. It could be an IT issue.

    Edit: The second link may not work unless Marinetraffic is already open, but the below 9kn version comes up if I click the red 'latest position' link on the map in the first link.

    412373.JPG

    The below is a general 'signature' and not part of any post:

    FYI, if you move to a 'smart' meter electricity plan, you CAN'T move back to a non-smart plan.

    You don't have to take a 'smart' meter if you don't want one, opt-out is available.

    Buy drinks in 3L or bigger plastic bottles or glass bottles or cartons to avoid the DRS fee.



  • #2288
    ted1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,287 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    kona wrote: »
    Well, if the aircraft was mechanically perfect how else would it crash?

    Do electrinic and electrical systems fall under the mechanical banner?


  • #2289
    kona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    Calina wrote: »
    The question has always been why the helicopter hit Blackrock. I would be nervous enough about asserting CFIT even now however particularly without knowing what the wreckage on the island consisted of and how exactly impact happened/was laid out/located.

    The question is, why was the aircraft that low, that fast, that close to a rock in the middle of the sea.
    If there was a failure of something and it's your last chance then it's definatley understandable.
    Now it's known that the aircraft was not damaged, those questions become a bit more worrying.


  • #2290
    Gadgetman496
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,454 ✭✭✭Gadgetman496


    I just listened to a local radio news item containing an interview with one of the investigators in which he described the condition of the wreckage recovered yesterday. It's the first time I've heard any mention of the actual condition of the wreckage and it pretty much explained the difficulty the team had dealing with it so far under water.

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



  • #2291
    elastico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭elastico


    FixdePitchmark wrote: »
    It is a strange thing to say at this stage without full examination of helicopter ?

    The basis of this is perhaps study of alarms and position indication of instrumentation ?

    Did he say no mechanical instrumentation or control failure.

    How can you say only way . There is more to flight than mechanical ?

    The cockpit voice recorder may have revealed all. There may be no need for an examination of the machine or any other alarms. Yes there are loads of small things that could have avoided such a tragic outcome but its sounds like that by the time they realised they were at the wrong destination it was too late to take corrective action.


  • Advertisement
  • #2292
    kona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    ted1 wrote: »
    Do electrinic and electrical systems fall under the mechanical banner?

    Well the information off the back box will be fed via the flight systems which control the mechanical parts of the aircraft.

    So by them saying no mechanical anomalies I'd read that as the aircraft was serviceable, electrically and mechanically.


  • #2293
    Cloudio9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,351 ✭✭✭Cloudio9


    ted1 wrote: »
    Do electrinic and electrical systems fall under the mechanical banner?

    Yes, these would all report faults if not working working correctly which would be on the FDR.

    The FDR will show that the helicopter behaved in accordance with the control inputs made by the pilots which is why he is talking about operational issues.

    Operational doesn't just mean pilot behaviour. e.g. One operational area of focus would be if they were following a standard approach and if that approach is potentially flawed in that it put them at risk of hitting the island.


  • #2294
    elastico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭elastico


    kona wrote: »
    The question is, why was the aircraft that low, that fast, that close to a rock in the middle of the sea.
    If there was a failure of something and it's your last chance then it's definatley understandable.
    Now it's known that the aircraft was not damaged, those questions become a bit more worrying.

    There are 2 conflicting figures relating to the speed. One is 9knots the other 90 knots. One or both may be wrong.

    The 9 knots comes from marine traffic as does the 90 knots.


  • #2295
    deaddonkey15
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭deaddonkey15


    elastico wrote: »
    There are 2 conflicting figures relating to the speed. One is 9knots the other 90 knots. One or both may be wrong.

    The 9 knots comes from marine traffic as does the 90 knots.

    I checked last night on my laptop. If you search SAR250002899 on MT you will get 90kts on the resulting page under the latest position section. If you then click on the map view for latest position it gives it as 9kts.


  • #2296
    kona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    elastico wrote: »
    There are 2 conflicting figures relating to the speed. One is 9knots the other 90 knots. One or both may be wrong.

    The 9 knots comes from marine traffic as does the 90 knots.

    I'd say that's a gremlin on the apps side. Theye fdr will have all the correct information.


  • #2297
    browner85
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 415 ✭✭browner85


    Is r116 still on the deck of granuaile?


  • #2298
    elastico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭elastico


    browner85 wrote: »
    Is r116 still on the deck of granuaile?

    Last I heard from RTE last night was Granuaile will bring it to a secret location for unloading in the next few days. How they plan to hide such a large vessel in a port is beyond me!


  • #2299
    kerry cow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭kerry cow


    What's with the big secret .are rte shying away from covering the news with footage or the papers seem all hus hus on the topic .
    Cameras can zoom in from miles away.
    All seems a little odd , usual story with the state .All a bit area 51 to me


  • #2300
    Coil Kilcrea
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 215 ✭✭Coil Kilcrea


    elastico wrote: »
    Last I heard from RTE last night was Granuaile will bring it to a secret location for unloading in the next few days. How they plan to hide such a large vessel in a port is beyond me!

    True. I suppose they're trying to avoid curious onlookers and be respectful.


  • #2301
    ED E
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,170 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    elastico wrote: »
    Last I heard from RTE last night was Granuaile will bring it to a secret location for unloading in the next few days. How they plan to hide such a large vessel in a port is beyond me!

    Is the Naval Yard in Cork not segregated? Bit of a trip but would be private.


  • Advertisement
  • #2302
    ted1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,287 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    ED E wrote: »
    Is the Naval Yard in Cork not segregated? Bit of a trip but would be private.

    On then on to Gormanstown? Better off using Dublin port or Drogheda or similar.

    If it's a secret will they turn off the AIS?


  • #2303
    Gadgetman496
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,454 ✭✭✭Gadgetman496


    elastico wrote: »
    Last I heard from RTE last night was Granuaile will bring it to a secret location for unloading in the next few days. How they plan to hide such a large vessel in a port is beyond me!

    Apparently it is not as large as you might expect it to be.

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



  • #2304
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ted1 wrote: »
    If it's a secret will they turn off the AIS?

    Maritime law won't allow them to.


  • #2305
    Gadgetman496
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,454 ✭✭✭Gadgetman496


    There is a description of what they did recover form Jurgen Whyte over on the P forum.

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



  • #2306
    elastico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭elastico


    Gadgetman496 wrote: »
    Apparently it is not as large as you might expect it to be.


    True, I've seen it and its not actually that big. I suppose best thing is cruise along the coast, detour into port of choice at last minute, have everything ready and be unloaded before a posse turns up.


  • #2307
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Not necessarily the way it'll work. They could quite easily just bring it around to Dublin port and go in to Alexandra basin and unload there at night and then drive it up to GOR. They'd be up in GOR in less than an hour through the port tunnel. I don't know where this whole "secret" location came from, was the word secret actually used or not disclosed location. Like you say it'll be to avoid a media scrum, not that they'll likely see more than a giant tarp or a container.


  • #2308
    Gaoth Laidir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,261 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Not necessarily the way it'll work. They could quite easily just bring it around to Dublin port and go in to Alexandra basin and unload there at night and then drive it up to GOR. They'd be up in GOR in less than an hour through the port tunnel. I don't know where this whole "secret" location came from, was the word secret actually used or not disclosed location. Like you say it'll be to avoid a media scrum, not that they'll likely see more than a giant tarp or a container.

    They said undisclosed

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/deep-disappointment-at-failure-to-find-missing-rescue-116-airmen-1.3034179
    The rotor head, main gear box, one engine and “associated” pieces will be taken by sea on the Granuaile to an undisclosed location, and transported to Gormanston, Co Meath for further examination by the investigation team.


  • #2309
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Gaoth Laidir wrote: »
    They said undisclosed

    Cheers, very easy to use Alexandra Basin as it's a somewhat "secure" location and it's protected from prying eyes by the P&O pier south of it and all the trailers.


  • #2310
    kippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,226 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    I wonder if anything can be drawn from the current location of the Granuaile and Ocean Challanger - neither in blacksod bay anymore and the ocean challanger appears to be in a search pattern - both ships closer to Achill than they have been.


  • Advertisement
  • #2311
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    kippy wrote: »
    I wonder if anything can be drawn from the current location of the Granuaile and Ocean Challanger - neither in blacksod bay anymore and the ocean challanger appears to be in a search pattern - both ships closer to Achill than they have been.

    Yes likely to both just be sheltering from wind and waves.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement