BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

Mebuntu · 02-04-2017 04:53PM

end of the road wrote: »

the union isn't putting any job on the line. it was the staff who voted for the strike action, the union is just representing them. the staff vote decides what happens as the staff are the union. the union heads just sanction something on the basis of the wishes of the members.

No. First the union whips up the members into a frenzy with a load of nonsense and (false) hopes. The members vote based on this false premise and then the union claims "nothing to do with us, we only act on our members' instructions". That's the way it works in the likes of BE. The BE workforce now knows the reality of it, that they were led up the garden path, hence the rogue action of the most militant of them with their illegal and selfish blocking of DB and IR premises on Friday. I like the idea of NBRU coffers being raided by DB and IR. The coffers including the money paid in by the very members they have sold down the drain.

Peppa Pig · 02-04-2017 04:55PM

end of the road wrote: »

if there was evidence that the union knew the action was going to happen or even planned it i reccan the media would have picked it up by now.

It's in the Irish Times ffs. They are the media, so using your logic it is true.

devnull · 02-04-2017 05:02PM

end of the road wrote: »

increases in services happened before the NTA existed, i remember late busses offered by bus eireann among others and rail lines got extra services. have the NTA any plans to improve rail services because it certainly doesn't look like it apart from the 10 minute dart which while nice, isn't really needed and will make the rest of connolly's rail services suffer because of lax infrastructure to support the lot

Clearly you forgot the extra funding to allow additional capacity on the DART and commuter services to allow stored vehicles to be brought back into service, upgrading stations such as Connolly and Tara Street to make them fully wheelchair accessible, and something known as the Phoenix Park Tunnel, the extra platform and track laying at Grand Canal Dock?

i said before had bus eireann put on all those nonstop services and they had been proven right that there was no demand the nashing of teeth on here and other places would have been insufferable.yes they got it wrong but they were damned if they did and damned if they didn't

They backed the wrong horse, that's a very strawman type argument, when someone gets something wrong it's a pretty poor card to play that "they got it wrong but if they got it right." they got it wrong, end of story. I'm dealing with reality here not if or but or maybe or a parallel universe, here and now and the facts.

However 2 operators per route is rather little. there should be a be presence on all non-stop and other commercial routes in the country.

There are two operators and that has proven to have worked thus far for passengers and delivered a number of passenger benefits without the chance of predatory running which could be a possible issue if you started adding too many operators to a route and the unions who do not know what the would saturation means claim that there are too many licenses already, however this claim in my view is not genuine.

In my view saturation is when a number of operators operate on a route and no operators can make a route pay because the loads are being spread too thin. If one operator is filling up their vehicles and needing reliefs whilst one is going around the place almost empty that is not saturation, it's basically a company that cannot compete in a commercial marketplace and any such company in the commercial marketplace who finds itself in this situation needs to adjust their services to take account of this.

The other ironic thing is, when Bus Eireann are carrying full buses and the competition were not carrying many passengers, according to the unions this is not saturation, but when it is the other way around and the competition is running full buses and Bus Eireann are empty, this is called saturation which is laughable, saturation has become a word used in place of the actual issue - commercial competitiveness.

At the end of the day Expressway should be given the same rights as any other commercial company and that is what they have right now for new services, forgetting the advantages they have as an incumbent on many routes pre-2009 when operators did not have a level playing field or a firm rulebook when it comes to bus licensing because for a long period BE saw license applications before they were even approved.

If you give special dispensation for Bus Eireann to operate on routes where it is not already present this will trigger off a petition to the EU court about unfair competition from the privates, the only way you could do it is by increasing it to three operators on a route and for every route where BE would gain a license, it means they could also have an additional competitor where they currently only have one.

oppenheimer1 · 02-04-2017 05:19PM

Mebuntu wrote: »

No. First the union whips up the members into a frenzy with a load of nonsense and (false) hopes. The members vote based on this false premise and then the union claims "nothing to do with us, we only act on our members' instructions". That's the way it works in the likes of BE. The BE workforce now knows the reality of it, that they were led up the garden path, hence the rogue action of the most militant of them with their illegal and selfish blocking of DB and IR premises on Friday. I like the idea of NBRU coffers being raided by DB and IR. The coffers including the money paid in by the very members they have sold down the drain.

The ironic thing about this is that the very action that the union are alleged to have taken will leave their members at risk to what the union are fighting. If the union is sued out of existence who will be able to prevent cost reduction across the other CIE companies? Will the members of other transport companies be happy to see their dues squandered - leaving them without representation with financial clout? I see some infighting as inevitable in the Unions now.

In any event, the ill advised action on Friday was certainly a turning point. A direct threat to the union's finances will help focus the mind of union leaders on fat salaries.

trellheim · 02-04-2017 05:22PM

This seems pro privatisation regardless the costs evolved and a step in other the unknown.

The NTA in my opinion isn't in a position to control the national bus transport network as most of it has been well established since their beginning. With a possible collapse of BE the cost to the state in lost earnings, taxes and 2600 and I'm sure a further 500 or so indirect jobs ending up on welfare is going to be massive burden on everything else especially public transport and the NTA.

Rural communities will be forgotten and it could be years before services resume in parts of the country. Ifor this was an election year this would be long since resolved.

I can't see the suggestion of bringing drivers from outside Ireland in been very popular with many and would be political suicide imo. The idea of BE drivers loosing their jobs and going to work for PO within a few weeks is fantasy stuff. Someone mentioned Clearys that mess was only resolved a couple of weeks ago and likely cost the owners a large sum as well as the state at the the beginning of that. That was a private company can imagine the uproar of something similar happening with a semi state.

I was the one who mentioned Clerys. It was unpleasant but did life go on after ? Sure did.

With respect to your points.

1. No one was talking privatisation until the Unions threw their toys out of the pram, and to be honest, looked like they wanted the strike rather than working stuff out . Now, not privatisation, worse, liquidation it is looking like the best option as some people just want to watch the world burn rather than deal with reality .

2. No such thing as political suicide - stop betting your house - Clerys was let go and there was no general election ;

3. What's the difference if its a semistate ? No-one cares. If a semi-state has fulfilled its purpose and there's no commercial point in continuing - then wind it up.

4. the longer BE workers stay out the longer the private sector has to capitalize on the gap ; that is the spreadsheet management has in front of them

Fred Swanson · 02-04-2017 05:22PM

This post has been deleted.

end of the road · 02-04-2017 05:26PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The ironic thing about this is that the very action that the union are alleged to have taken will leave their members at risk to what the union are fighting. If the union is sued out of existence who will be able to prevent cost reduction across the other CIE companies? Will the members of other transport companies be happy to see their dues squandered - leaving them without representation with financial clout? I see some infighting as inevitable in the Unions now.

In any event, the ill advised action on Friday was certainly a turning point. A direct threat to the union's finances will help focus the mind of union leaders on fat salaries.

it is very unlikely the union will be sued out of existence. i would be surprised if they don't have a good fund to deal with risks from these types of cases. any smart union would do exactly that. i suspect both the other companies would have lost little in the great scheme of things so the union should be able to manage paying them if it came to it.

end of the road · 02-04-2017 05:34PM

trellheim wrote: »

I was the one who mentioned Clerys. It was unpleasant but did life go on after ? Sure did.
No such thing as political suicide - stop betting your house - Clerys was let go and there was no general election ;

clearys isn't relevant here. i don't believe they provided public service obligation services but correct me if they did. i would agree that in ireland and the uk there is No such thing as political suicide as people tend to only vote for the same 2 parties.

trellheim wrote: »

What's the difference if its a semistate ? No-one cares. If a semi-state has fulfilled its purpose and there's no commercial point in continuing - then wind it up.

those who rely on the services it provides care. none of our public services have a commercial point in continuing but a social point. be fulfills its purpose and it still has a purpose.

trellheim wrote: »

the longer BE workers stay out the longer the private sector has to capitalize on the gap ; that is the spreadsheet management has in front of them

on the commercial routes and the few routes where another local operator exists yes. but they are only a small part of be's operations.

ricimaki · 02-04-2017 05:35PM

end of the road wrote: »

it is very unlikely the union will be sued out of existence. i would be surprised if they don't have a good fund to deal with risks from these types of cases. any smart union would do exactly that. i suspect both the other companies would have lost little in the great scheme of things so the union should be able to manage paying them if it came to it.

A smart union wouldn't put itself in a position where it could be sued at all.

end of the road · 02-04-2017 05:37PM

ricimaki wrote: »

A smart union wouldn't put itself in a position where it could be sued at all.

you are assuming that those taking the case will win and get anything. they very well may not. we won't know until such time as it goes to court if it actually does.

murphaph · 02-04-2017 05:52PM

end of the road wrote: »

it takes a lot less gards to manage a game then to manage your suggestion (put one squad car outside each DB depot).

How can one squad car at each DB depot possibly use up more GARDA resources than an international at Landsdowne Road?

Have you ever been to a match at Landsdowne Road? Maybe you haven't and don't realise how many Gardai are present in the vicinity, before during and after (and in town afterwards).

DB has what, 8 depots? I can only think of:
-Harristown
-Summerhill
-Broadstone
-Conyngham Road
-Clontarf
-Abbey Street if it's still there?
-Ringsend
-Donnybrook

The Gardai cover much larger "events" all the time. This is small fry stuff.

It seems like you would say absolutely anything to support the BE strikers, regardless how obviously ridiculous it is. The fact however that it even needs to be contemplated to station police at these dodgy pickets of other companies shows how far these BE drivers have fallen.

I wonder what the other non-driver grades in BE make of their jobs being risked by all this too. The whole company will soon be in examinership tbh.

Brendan Bendar · 02-04-2017 05:55PM

end of the road wrote: »

you are assuming that those taking the case will win and get anything. they very well may not. we won't know until such time as it goes to court if it actually does.

The poster is not assuming anything, he/ she is saying that a smart union would not put themselves into a position to be sued.

Maybe if those who took part in the wildcat stuff were hit in the pocket, it might deter them from further such activity.

A union tacitly supporting such activity and elected reps like Brid Smith who I heard encouraging this activity should be subject to some sanction.

Either it's legal or it's not.

Time the Govt stood up and was counted on this and stop pussyfooting around.

IE 222 · 02-04-2017 05:56PM

devnull wrote: »

The NTA's core discharge is to regulate and promote public transport within the state and represent the need of both the taxpayer and the traveling public and do so in a way which is without fear from any one company or it's staff or it's vested interests and without favour to any one group of people, I agree with them and also believe that the interests of the many must become of the interests of a few.

I believe that providing good public transport services is the most important thing. Ultimately who provides the service doesn't bother me in the slightest. Many of the improvements that Bus Eireann have made over recent years have only been made because they have had no choice but to because the NTA have allowed private enterprise to provide services BE said were not viable or not as frequent, starting so early or running so late, We should always reward people who offer innovative new services.

If a private proposes and starts operating an innovative new service that Bus Eireann say is not viable, as has happened on a number of occasions, why should we stop them? Public transport is supposed to be for the public not specified to the best interests of any other groups. No Monopoly is good no matter if it is a private company or a public company and the NTA has a track record of delivering public transport growth.

Indeed according to some, the NTA should should simply tell passengers who avail of services operated by private operators who put licenses in to operate later, faster, and more frequent services that Bus Eireann they must be canceled because Bus Eireann don't like it, since the interests of Bus Eireann are far more important than someone who wants to travel to the airport, on holiday or to work or see their family.

It is proven that since the NTA took office the spread of public transport services being offered to the public, the operating hours of such service and the demand for such services has greatly increased, in many cases, very significantly. For example, between 2012 and 2015, total bus passenger numbers on the Cork Dublin Corridor increased by 61 per cent, while on the Limerick Dublin Corridor, they increased by 50 per cent.

You seem to think the NTA has been responsible for building this countries transport infrastructure and systems over the last 10 years or so. They are just a new CIE.

Where do you think the NTA get there funding. Any costs to the state from BE a collapse is going to effect the NTA one way or another. The state isn't going to pump millions into the NTA to get bus services going again. They will only be able to work with limited funds as any BE assets been sold off will be covering the costs of shutting that down.

It's not hard to see an increase in demand since they started in fact it would of been fairly impossible. Since they took over the Dublin commuter area has expanded massively meaning more people live further out.

The NTA hasn't growing business travellers its the growing population that's done that. Neither have they single handedly brought in PO the motorways done that. Where were these guys 10 or 15 years ago.

Do you nother believe workers in say aircoach ect will never strike your only off loading the problem from one company to another and before you say it a strike in aircoach now would even have significant effects on travellers.

You are so reliant on the NTA but yet talk about monopolies been such a problem. The NTA haven't proven anything really they have had it fairly easy so far and been only tasked to implement such things like leap card which was already designed and decided upon by others.

For services that the NTA must believe that the interests of the many must become of the interests of a few, are they going to fund taxi services for the ones left behind or off load that problem onto another state agency.

ricimaki · 02-04-2017 05:56PM

end of the road wrote: »

you are assuming that those taking the case will win and get anything. they very well may not. we won't know until such time as it goes to court if it actually does.

No, I'm assuming that the union would not like to spend their money on a legal team and court cases at all.

end of the road · 02-04-2017 05:59PM

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Maybe if those who took part in the wildcat stuff were hit in the pocket, it might deter them from further such activity.

going on the fact that the injunctions and jail didn't stop the water protesters, i'd doubt it would deterr them tbh.

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

A union tacitly supporting such activity and elected reps like Brid Smith who I heard encouraging this activity should be subject to some sanction.

the union didn't support it.

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Time the Govt stood up and was counted on this and stop pussyfooting around.

the government have said they won't get involved.

murphaph · 02-04-2017 06:01PM

devnull wrote: »

It is proven that since the NTA took office the spread of public transport services being offered to the public, the operating hours of such service and the demand for such services has greatly increased, in many cases, very significantly. For example, between 2012 and 2015, total bus passenger numbers on the Cork Dublin Corridor increased by 61 per cent, while on the Limerick Dublin Corridor, they increased by 50 per cent.

The NTA has done more for public transport than CIE has managed in 70 years.

Brendan Bendar · 02-04-2017 06:03PM

end of the road wrote: »

going on the fact that the injunctions and jail didn't stop the water protesters, i'd doubt it would deterr them tbh.

the union didn't support it.

the government have said they won't get involved.

I don't agree, it certainly would.

I said 'tacitly'

They said the wouldn't get involved in the strike, I am referring to action on wildcat pickets.

end of the road · 02-04-2017 06:04PM

murphaph wrote: »

The NTA has done more for public transport than CIE has managed in 70 years.

not much more. some what they have implemented was all ready on it's way to being implamented before they came along. they reopened the phoenix park tunnel to passenger traffic and they deserve a small bit of credit whereas IE deserve none but that should have been open to passenger traffic all the time anyway.

Fred Swanson · 02-04-2017 06:11PM

This post has been deleted.

IE 222 · 02-04-2017 06:15PM

trellheim wrote: »

I was the one who mentioned Clerys. It was unpleasant but did life go on after ? Sure did.

With respect to your points.

1. No one was talking privatisation until the Unions threw their toys out of the pram, and to be honest, looked like they wanted the strike rather than working stuff out . Now, not privatisation, worse, liquidation it is looking like the best option as some people just want to watch the world burn rather than deal with reality .

2. No such thing as political suicide - stop betting your house - Clerys was let go and there was no general election ;

3. What's the difference if its a semistate ? No-one cares. If a semi-state has fulfilled its purpose and there's no commercial point in continuing - then wind it up.

4. the longer BE workers stay out the longer the private sector has to capitalize on the gap ; that is the spreadsheet management has in front of them

1. Well a BE collapse can only lead to privately ran operations.

2. Political suicide is well alive in this country have you forgotten banking crisis, attempting to cut pensioners ect. A government allowing a semi state employing 2600 plus other indirect jobs and affecting the lives of 1000s of users to collapse and then bring in drivers from abroad to replace them while costing the state more isn't going to last very long. What I said was if this was the year of a general election you can be assured every political party would be trying to take the lead on it.

3. If it's out dated then maybe. As far as I'm aware there is still 1000s using buses why fold a state run service if it's required it's not as if we're going to sell it for a profit but more than likely end up paying more for it.

4. I agree which is why an agreement between all needs to be worked out. CIE should be forced into helping BE find it feet again in the short term while working with NTA and private operators to run lessor services BE can't handle.

murphaph · 02-04-2017 06:26PM

IE 222 wrote: »

1. Well a BE collapse can only lead to privately ran operations.

2. Political suicide is well alive in this country have you forgotten banking crisis, attempting to cut pensioners ect. A government allowing a semi state employing 2600 plus other indirect jobs and affecting the lives of 1000s of users to collapse and then bring in drivers from abroad to replace them while costing the state more isn't going to last very long. What I said was if this was the year of a general election you can be assured every political party would be trying to take the lead on it.

3. If it's out dated then maybe. As far as I'm aware there is still 1000s using buses why fold a state run service if it's required it's not as if we're going to sell it for a profit but more than likely end up paying more for it.

4. I agree which is why an agreement between all needs to be worked out. CIE should be forced into helping BE find it feet again in the short term while working with NTA and private operators to run lessor services BE can't handle.

There is zero public support beyond those employed or formerly employed in the public sector or semi-states for these BE drivers. There is literally no political risk to letting them all go. There is a political problem with PSO routes ceasing operations (temporarily) but Expressway can be replaced immediately with PO's.

Stephen15 · 02-04-2017 06:28PM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

It was never closed. Freight used it all the time.

Did you the 2 OP's they said theyve reopened it to passenger traffic

Fred Swanson · 02-04-2017 06:32PM

This post has been deleted.

trellheim · 02-04-2017 06:33PM

Just to be clear - no-one here wants the PSO routes gone - and they won't be . But one bus is much like another bus.

Political suicide ? FF amazingly back from the dead . No sign of a GE ( FF not wanting one is another matter but it wont be BE that decides it , if the Garda Commissioner codology won't do it, what price a bus company ? ) Deal with reality lads

take the pay rise on offer - as that's what it is.

Hired in labour from outside ? One driver is much like another once they learn the route . As a negotiating stance this probably isnt the best foot forward here

BoatMad · 02-04-2017 06:35PM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

what freight , there about two freight trains a day in the last 10 years. IE single tracked the tunnel , but the main reason , that IE "rediscovered " the tunnel was that DU was killed. The Tunnel was an awkward embarrassment for IE when DU was active

IE 222 · 02-04-2017 06:35PM

murphaph wrote: »

There is zero public support beyond those employed or formerly employed in the public sector or semi-states for these BE drivers. There is literally no political risk to letting them all go. There is a political problem with PSO routes ceasing operations (temporarily) but Expressway can be replaced immediately with PO's.

Where you getting that fact from.

Ask the people outside of Dublin who heavily relies on BE. Where not just talking about your average student here who only sees the price of a trip. If there is no political risk then why are the parties starting come public and even some offering support to BE. Shane Ross and a few others will be refined to the history books in next general election if all these jobs.

Brendan Bendar · 02-04-2017 06:39PM

IE 222 wrote: »

1. Well a BE collapse can only lead to privately ran operations.

2. Political suicide is well alive in this country have you forgotten banking crisis, attempting to cut pensioners ect. A government allowing a semi state employing 2600 plus other indirect jobs and affecting the lives of 1000s of users to collapse and then bring in drivers from abroad to replace them while costing the state more isn't going to last very long. What I said was if this was the year of a general election you can be assured every political party would be trying to take the lead on it.

3. If it's out dated then maybe. As far as I'm aware there is still 1000s using buses why fold a state run service if it's required it's not as if we're going to sell it for a profit but more than likely end up paying more for it.

4. I agree which is why an agreement between all needs to be worked out. CIE should be forced into helping BE find it feet again in the short term while working with NTA and private operators to run lessor services BE can't handle.

Unions going into 'negotiations' with the pre condition as per O'Leary that their members would not give an inch on pay and conditions, given the fact that the company was due to become insolvent within a few weeks is a strange way to operate, I would have to say.

Seems to me Noone and OLeary 'took a punt' and banked on the Govt. as happened when FF were in charge had opened the purse strings and kicked the can down the road.

Seems they backed the wrong horse on this occasion.

BoatMad · 02-04-2017 06:40PM

IE 222 wrote: »

Where you getting that fact from.

Ask the people outside of Dublin who heavily relies on BE. Where not just talking about your average student here who only sees the price of a trip. If there is no political risk then why are the parties starting come public and even some offering support to BE. Shane Ross and a few others will be refined to the history books in next general election if all these jobs.

IM not aware that suddenly there are no buses in Ireland if BE goes.

PSO routes can simply be franked out.

there is no need for BE. thats clear

devnull · 02-04-2017 06:42PM

IE 222 wrote: »

You seem to think the NTA has been responsible for building this countries transport infrastructure and systems over the last 10 years or so. They are just a new CIE.

They are not a new CIE because they do not operate services and they have an overarching responsibilityto the public to manage the whole system and have a track record of integrating things. One has to ask why it takes a regulator or an overarching authority to make sister companies work together, one of the biggest issues with CIE is that despite the fact all three companies were sister and brother to each other, they spent the best part of a decade or two just digging their own way without any attempt to work with each other.

As an enthusiast of public transport rather than of one particular company like some people on some forums appear to be, I can see the bigger picture and the NTA have done a lot of work on integration and trying to provide a joined up system which has been resisted by the CIE companies who are too busy looking after their own interests than the bigger public transport infrastructure, they see other operators as the enemies when the PSO arms should be putting that to one side.

Where do you think the NTA get there funding. Any costs to the state from BE a collapse is going to effect the NTA one way or another. The state isn't going to pump millions into the NTA to get bus services going again. They will only be able to work with limited funds as any BE assets been sold off will be covering the costs of shutting that down.

Do you think the €100m that the NTA have invested in Bus Eireann each year for some of the last few years will simply be burnt and not used for this? Through tendering they will save money because monopolies never give good value for money in any industry and always drive up cost, there are many many examples of this throughout Europe and throughout the world.

The NTA hasn't growing business travellers its the growing population that's done that. Neither have they single handedly brought in PO the motorways done that. Where were these guys 10 or 15 years ago.

Until 2009 and the Public Transport Regulation Act, private operators did not have a level playing field when it came to applying for services, in-case it escaped your notice this led to a number of private operators bringing the then Department of Transport, dreadfully prone to political interference to court and in one case it was found that the Department had made an error which heavily effected an operator because the playing field was not level. There were many stories of licenses taking years to process whilst publicly operated licenses were dealt with very fast especially when it involved helping someone secure a seat in a forthcoming election.

You also say the motorways created the services but this couldn't be further from the truth. Bus Eireann claimed there would be no demand for these services and without the 2009 Public Transport Regulation Act there is no assurance that these services would have been able to start because the operators would not have a clear right to start them, in-fact a few years before the NTA was established every license application was sent from the DFT to CIE to inspect, which is laughable and a truly dysfunctional system that puts the company before the public.

Do you nother believe workers in say aircoach ect will never strike your only off loading the problem from one company to another and before you say it a strike in aircoach now would even have significant effects on travellers.

Considering they have had union recognition via SIPTU for around 12 years and there has never been any murmuring of a ballot from what I can find on Google let alone industrial action of any kind let alone a strike, I think this is a moot point. There to my knowledge, has been no private bus company that has gone on strike in Ireland.

You are so reliant on the NTA but yet talk about monopolies been such a problem. The NTA haven't proven anything really they have had it fairly easy so far and been only tasked to implement such things like leap card which was already designed and decided upon by others.

Many things were "designed and decided upon" by others and many things were "coming soon" as Dublin Bus, Irish Rail and Bus Eireann told us for years on end, but the thing was as much as they talked the talk there was little to back it up in actual actions until the NTA came on the scene and bashed a few heads together to represent the customer. The basic form of the leap card may have been decided in past but the many developments the NTA have made to it were not in the initial spec and if DB/BE/IR had their way leap fares would be much more expensive and save far less for the passenger and not have some of the features they currently have.

Before you disagree with this, you should look through the various fare determinations of the past few years and see what the NTA have allowed and what the operators have proposed, you will find there is a big difference in some cases where the NTA have restricted or prevented changes that would not be in the interests of consumers on PSO services or those who use multiple methods of transport.

For services that the NTA must believe that the interests of the many must become of the interests of a few, are they going to fund taxi services for the ones left behind or off load that problem onto another state agency.

I go on their current record and they have never left anyone behind, but at the same time it has to be appreciated that services need to have frequency and capacity that is closer matched to demand, for instance if one route services 10 and the bus service is only averaging 10 passengers a day, they should not expect to have a hourly bus service from 8am to 8pm on a full sized coach that carries one or two passengers on each run.

BoatMad · 02-04-2017 06:43PM

1. Well a BE collapse can only lead to privately ran operations.

2. Political suicide is well alive in this country have you forgotten banking crisis, attempting to cut pensioners ect. A government allowing a semi state employing 2600 plus other indirect jobs and affecting the lives of 1000s of users to collapse and then bring in drivers from abroad to replace them while costing the state more isn't going to last very long. What I said was if this was the year of a general election you can be assured every political party would be trying to take the lead on it.

3. If it's out dated then maybe. As far as I'm aware there is still 1000s using buses why fold a state run service if it's required it's not as if we're going to sell it for a profit but more than likely end up paying more for it.

4. I agree which is why an agreement between all needs to be worked out. CIE should be forced into helping BE find it feet again in the short term while working with NTA and private operators to run lessor services BE can't handle.

1. Nothing wrong with private operators , nowhere does it say that bus drivers have to be employees of the state

2. not fold it up, merely offer it ( along with pSO subsidies ) to other operators

4. BE has a balance sheet problem , not a cash liquidity issue. CIE cant help it. its either makes a profit or it becomes insolvent and effectively cant trade. This problem is specific in the CIE group to BE.

BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

Comments