BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

Jamie2k9 · 31-03-2017 11:11PM

nope, public support wouldn't make a difference to this strike's outcome like it didn't for luas. the luas staff didn't end up on the dole queue and got themselves a good deal. the greyhound workers dispite having public support got little if anything. same with dones which also had support.

Luas got a good deal??, they got almost exactly what TD said from day 1, an extra year (3 to 4 deal) and the Red Line just shafted Green Line staff on full BXD implementation.

nope the next government will be a labour government. 10 years of tory rule and the people have had enough.

Got to be joking??

Graham · 31-03-2017 11:17PM

end of the road wrote: »

it is illegal to threaten to make a company insolvent.

You have that backwards, it's illegal for a company to trade while insolvent.

Easy mistake to make I suppose.

devnull · 31-03-2017 11:21PM

end of the road wrote: »

can't be done as that would be illegal. it is illegal to threaten to make a company insolvent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insolvency

Insolvency is the state of being unable to pay the money owed, by a person or company, on time; those in a state of insolvency are said to be insolvent. Nobody decides that "today I'm going to make my company insolvent" because I cannot get my own way. Insolvency is not a voluntary choice, that is not how it works, if you really think it is then you really need to start studying basic economics and finance

Insolvency happens when a company cannot meet it's obligation. It's not something that they choose to do, it's something that happens when the company cannot service it's obligations, Nobody threatens anyone with insolvency, it's something that happens by itself if the business is unable to trade in a solvent fashion.

The more money the company saves, the longer they can stave off a situation where they become insolvent. So by saving money in some areas, the point at which insolvency is reached is pushed back further because it reduces the speed that cash is used up and therefore increases the amount of time they can meet their obligations for.

Insolvency happens when the business cannot meet it's obligations and nobody gets to decide if they are insolvent or not, they simply are when they can no longer meet it's obligations, if they cannot meet obligations they do not have a choice of insolvency or not, they simply are insolvent.

It's not a threat or a bargaining point, or even about opinions or viewpoints, it's just what the word means.

nope the next government will be a labour government. 10 years of tory rule and the people have had enough.

If I was in the UK, I would vote for Lib Dems, could never vote Tory but could never vote for Labour with Corbyn in charge, he would be a total disaster.

WomanSkirtFan8 · 31-03-2017 11:24PM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I fully suspect they will vote for action, places like Cork are guaranteed (they love a strike!).
_______

Fantastic to see Ross harden his stance and even bodies such as Dublin Chamber urging the Goverment not to get involved. O Leary's is losing significant credibility (not that it was high to begin wtih) and the NBRU have lost total control of members.

Best we can hope for is a hardening of legislation, DB/IE strike is inevitable IMO.

"Fantastic to see Ross harden his stance and even bodies such as Dublin Chamber urging the Goverment not to get involved. "

Deffinately not going to happen if Ross and the Government stick to their positions. He absolutely shouldn't get involved give the EU rules regarding state aid.

"Best we can hope for is a hardening of legislation"

That's possibly extremely likely now given that farce that happen this morning. Absolutely disgraceful behaviour. As someone who used to work in the private section i can tell you that if u tried a stunt like that in a private sector company, you'd be straight out the door with no recourse at all.

"O Leary's is losing significant credibility (not that it was high to begin wtih) and the NBRU have lost total control of members."

Yes I completely agree with that. As General secretary of the NBRU, O'Leary (who I personally can't stand the sight of) and his ilk, are primarily responsible for the behaviour of their members and should be held responsible as such. Don't believe a word that man says.

Heard Greg Ennis from SIPTU and he certainly sounded like someone on the defensive.:rolleyes:

Jamie2k9 · 31-03-2017 11:24PM

If I was in the UK, I would vote for Lib Dems, could never vote Tory but could never vote for Labour with Corbyn in charge, he would be a total disaster.

Oh dear, you were doing so well and then you said Lib Dems

WomanSkirtFan8 · 31-03-2017 11:25PM

L1011 wrote: »

He was in charge of ILDA, who effectively ended rail freight in Ireland and may have actually caused IFI to close down. The environmental damage caused by that ILDA strike is insane.]

Yep. No disputing that. Was all about union recognition from what I can recall!:rolleyes:

L1011 · 31-03-2017 11:28PM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Oh dear, you were doing so well and then you said Lib Dems

Despite Farron being in charge, they do appear to be picking up significant momentum (with a VERY lower case m!) from people who neither want the Tories or trotskyism. I don't think the UK Labour party has been this left wing since before WWII.

devnull · 31-03-2017 11:29PM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Oh dear, you were doing so well and then you said Lib Dems

It's not a case of me liking the Lib Dems all that much, I could never vote UKIP since I am opposed to everything they stand for, I hate the Tories and Labour are too extreme to the left for me, so that pretty much only leaves the Lib Dems, especially because they are the only pro EU party.

Corbyn would be right behind the BE lads!

Jamie2k9 · 31-03-2017 11:34PM

devnull wrote: »

It's not a case of me liking the Lib Dems all that much, I could never vote UKIP since I am opposed to everything they stand for, I hate the Tories and Labour are too extreme to the left for me, so that pretty much only leaves the Lib Dems, especially because they are the only pro EU party.

Corbyn would be right behind the BE lads!

Your killing me now, pro Europe as well!

(might be best to go back to BE now, will get in trouble)

Stephen15 · 31-03-2017 11:46PM

devnull wrote: »

It's not a case of me liking the Lib Dems all that much, I could never vote UKIP since I am opposed to everything they stand for, I hate the Tories and Labour are too extreme to the left for me, so that pretty much only leaves the Lib Dems, especially because they are the only pro EU party.

Corbyn would be right behind the BE lads!

TBH there is still a need for unions in the uk the average wages are still relatively poor compared to this country where it is a free for all

infogiver · 31-03-2017 11:50PM

end of the road wrote: »

nope, public support wouldn't make a difference to this strike's outcome like it didn't for luas. the luas staff didn't end up on the dole queue and got themselves a good deal. the greyhound workers dispite having public support got little if anything. same with dones which also had support.

can't be done as that would be illegal. it is illegal to threaten to make a company insolvent.

nope the next government will be a labour government. 10 years of tory rule and the people have had enough.

he hasn't no . just himself.

EOTR admit that sometimes you forget that it's very easy to Google actual facts.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk

BuffyBot · 31-03-2017 11:50PM

UK Politics aren't a topic for this thread, so let's get the focus back on the BE dispute

kingshankly · 01-04-2017 12:45AM

Last Stop wrote: »

Whatever about the Bus Eireann strike, someone must be held accountable for what happened this morning.
Neither Irish Rail or Dublin Bus have any issues with their employers and so should not have been involved.
Could you imagine what would happen if workers in a private company just refused to turn up for work one random morning? No because it simply wouldn't happen because they would not get paid or possibly be out of a job.

While I wouldn't want to ignite another strike, I think that the workers who refused to work this morning should be docked pay as they did not work. Or better still let the union foot the bill. Someone somewhere knew about this and someone has to be held responsible.
Chances are this part of the strike will be all forgotten about in a few weeks and those responsible will get away scot free

Any train driver that didn't sign on for work will not get paid today plain and simple and they knew that would be the case
I'm not sure what would happen if the be driverswere to do it again

kingshankly · 01-04-2017 12:48AM

The secondary strike this morning was by nbru be drivers only
Now the majority of train drivers are also with nbru as they are seen to be a more pro active union and also pay more strike pay than siptu

n97 mini · 01-04-2017 01:06AM

end of the road wrote: »

nope the next government will be a labour government. 10 years of tory rule and the people have had enough.

The Labour Party here were destroyed in the last election by a fragmented left, all of whom refused to take part in government: AAA/PBP, Social Democrats, Sinn Fein, etc. Whatever about the UK, we're safe enough for the foreseeable future.

n97 mini · 01-04-2017 01:08AM

Stheno wrote: »

Wasn't ogle in charge of the nbru when they did the flash strikes in IE around 2000?

It was ILDA. At the time I got paid a day rate and those pr1cks prevented me from earning a wage to pay my mortgage and feed my family.

n97 mini · 01-04-2017 01:18AM

kingshankly wrote: »

The secondary strike this morning was by nbru be drivers only
Now the majority of train drivers are also with nbru as they are seen to be a more pro active union and also pay more strike pay than siptu

The Journal backs up that the NBRU element were behind the "wildcat" pickets.

http://www.thejournal.ie/wildcat-strike-could-happen-again-3316941-Mar2017/

TheQuietFella · 01-04-2017 01:34AM

n97 mini wrote: »

It was ILDA. At the time I got paid a day rate and those pr1cks prevented me from earning a wage to pay my mortgage and feed my family.

You must be destitute? :eek:

Stephen15 · 01-04-2017 01:39AM

Whatever happened to ILDA

n97 mini · 01-04-2017 02:05AM

TheQuietFella wrote: »

You must be destitute? :eek:

Giving as good as we get

Lady is a tramp · 01-04-2017 05:04AM

The Bus Eireann workers were completely in the wrong to do what they did.

But I also think the Dublin Bus and Irish Rail drivers who went along with it should face serious consequences for their part in it.

What does this mean, if they refuse to cross any picket line to get to their place of work, whether it's anything to do with them or not? What's to stop this becoming a new Irish phenomenon, where employees of any random company can choose to hold the country to ransom by effectively shutting down public transport at will?

The DB and IR drivers have a massive responsibility to a lot of people, and they really let themselves and all of us down yesterday. There were huge consequences of their actions for workers, students, families, children, patients, people all over the country. It was very unfair of them, and I'm completely disgusted to be honest.

I realise they didn't create the situation, and (supposedly) had no advance warning of what was to happen. But every driver who allowed themselves to be so easily bullied into letting so many people down - they made a really bad judgement call, in my opinion, and should absolutely be sanctioned for it.

I hope some sort of action is taken to ensure they'll do the right thing, should a situation like this ever arise again. Rather than acting like pathetic sheep, like they did yesterday.

StreetLight · 01-04-2017 07:09AM

From a very reliable contact in Dublin Bus, I can say that yesterday at one Dublin Bus depot around 95 percent of drivers passed the picket to report for work.

About 20 buses managed to leave before the picketers stood in front of the gate and blocked any more from driving out.

murphaph · 01-04-2017 08:19AM

StreetLight wrote: »

From a very reliable contact in Dublin Bus, I can say that yesterday at one Dublin Bus depot around 95 percent of drivers passed the picket to report for work.

About 20 buses managed to leave before the picketers stood in front of the gate and blocked any more from driving out.

Well this was a public order matter for the Gardaí to deal with but they were probably too busy entering fake data into PULSE.

bk · 01-04-2017 09:15AM

I want to say, that while I don't think the current BE strike is wise, I fully support their and any employees right to go out on strike as long as they follow the correct procedure. To properly ballot their members on the strike and most importantly to give the public sufficient advance notice of the strike.

But what happened yesterday was completely immoral, pure bullyboy tactics and should be completely illegal.

This secondary strike was sprung on the public with no notice, thus giving them no opportunity to make alternative arrangements and possibly endangering people, for instance people not being able to make hospital appointments or getting stranded.

This move showed that these BE strikers have little or no respect for the public.

It was also completely unfair to DB and IR staff who were faced by these bully boy tactics. They had no notice of this protest and really it has nothing to do with them. And I suspect some of these staff may feel bad that they weren't able to serve the public with no notice like this.

Fair enough if DB and IR ballot to strike too and they give the public sufficient notice. I would disagree with such a secondary strike, but at least the DB/IR staff could choose for themselves to get involved or not and at least the public would have time to prepare for it.

For me, yesterdays actions showed how little respect these BE strikers have for the general public and even how little respect they have for their colleagues in DB/IR.

Mebuntu · 01-04-2017 10:08AM

From a very reliable contact in Dublin Bus, I can say that yesterday at one Dublin Bus depot around 95 percent of drivers passed the picket to report for work.

About 20 buses managed to leave before the picketers stood in front of the gate and blocked any more from driving out.

Why, then, were the Gardai not called to remove them as they were illegally and physically preventing workers from doing their jobs? If the strikers had stood in front of the entrances to Dáil Eireann and prevented TD's from driving through I don't think it would have gone on longer than five minutes if even that.

Mebuntu · 01-04-2017 10:26AM

From a very reliable contact in Dublin Bus, I can say that yesterday at one Dublin Bus depot around 95 percent of drivers passed the picket to report for work.

About 20 buses managed to leave before the picketers stood in front of the gate and blocked any more from driving out.

Perhaps we've all been caught out..........bearing in mind today's date

L1011 · 01-04-2017 11:37AM

Both IR and DB are to sue the NBRU for lost revenue and week injunctions it appears.

JCX BXC · 01-04-2017 11:40AM

L1011 wrote: »

Both IR and DB are to sue the NBRU for lost revenue and week injunctions it appears.

Great, hope they win it.

Forgetting all reasons for the strike action, when one party resorts to illegal action, they should not get away with it.

jackofalltrades · 01-04-2017 12:06PM

Mary Lou using this situation to show off her ignorance once again.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dublin-bus-irish-rail-to-sue-nbru-over-wildcat-strike-1.3032720

Later, Sinn Féin’s Mary Lou McDonald said what Mr Ross and Mr Varadkar needed “to take account of is the service Bus Éireann provides for our citizens along non-profit-making routes where private operators will not go”.
“Are these people to be sacrificed for the Government’s privatisation agenda?” she asked.

We desperately need a competent media that can point out the BE operates these routes because they are paid to and have a monopoly.
Not because they are some sort of charitable organisation.

devnull · 01-04-2017 12:22PM

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Mary Lou using this situation to show off her ignorance once again.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dublin-bus-irish-rail-to-sue-nbru-over-wildcat-strike-1.3032720

We desperately need a competent media that can point out the BE operates these routes because they are paid to and have a monopoly.
Not because they are some sort of charitable organisation.

As I said before, Bus Eireann serves rural routes and routes that are not commercially viable is it is paid to do so. It is given free vehicles to do so and the taxpayer spent almost 100 million euro on this activity last year.

Private operators don't as they don't get free vehicles and are not funded to do so as of yet and even if private operators wanted to run a rural service or a PSO service they cannot since they are not allowed to compete with BE.

BE got the services automatically without any tender and said all the routes were unviable without even letting someone prove that it is not the case or could do it for less or make it work on a commercial and non subsidy basis.

I know SF and others are trying to make out that in a romantic way that Bus Eireann is some kind of God who does it out of the kindness of their hearts and are portraying rural Ireland as a victim but it's a false narrative.

BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

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