Bus Eireann

Walter H Price wrote: »

The economy wont drastically suffer the loss a minority of people tbh , we should be encouraging people to relocate to urban centers or their greater surrounding areas, more should be invested in further developing city's like Galway , Kilkenny , Limerick Waterford and Cork to increase density. a fundamental issue in this country is we have a tiny population and extremely low density that makes providing public infrastructure incredibly difficult , costly and inefficient. the Dutch have 4 and a bit times our population living on a landmass slightly smaller then Munster. we need to stop wasting time and money trying to provide catch all services to widely dispersed rural population and look to further urbanisation , the fact that we only have one proper City (by UK or European comparison) is the main issue here.

i don't disagree with much of that but really it is a separate issue and is going happening of it's own accord anyway. urbanisation is slowly happening.

Walter H Price wrote: »

After that semi states have got to go a properly regulated privitized model is the best route we can go.

it's not as it's hugely expensive to tax payers and fare payers. commercial services having competition between a state operator and private operators, with a state operator operating the non-viable routes is the better option as it has been proven to cost little over all.

pilly wrote: »

Did we ever have miners in Ireland? :pac::pac:

In the Arigna coal facility, up to about 1990. I think Tara Zinc mine is still operating.

jimgoose wrote: »

I think the average Joe on the picket-lines has a valid grievance because he's looking at a €600 per-month drop in pay, and it couldn't really be said to be his fault. Like I said, you'd expect me to be the first asshole to say "To buggery with the lot of them, don't need 'em!", but no, I see the need for BE/IA/DB, and would like to see this solved to everyone's satisfaction sooner rather than later.

Agreed, I'd be quite annoyed alright if my core pay was being reduced by 600 a month. It's not though. The offer is to actually increase core pay, in return for the ending of overtime payments unless necessary.
Overtime will always be necessary. But not to the extent of the piss take that is going on in bus eireann at the moment
Efficient rostering and drivers driving for their rostered hours is the bulk of what is being sought.

VinLieger wrote: »

Indeed but anyone with an ounce of sense shouldn't be relying on overtime payments being anywhere near that level and being a regular monthly payment

You just said a lorry-load there, chief! :pac:

pilly wrote: »

I have to say lads, I'm living in rural Ireland at the moment and I haven't heard one person say they're inconvenienced by this. I've no doubt there are people but I really don't think it's as widespread as BE drivers would like to think.

I actually did think it would be a different experience for me living in rural Ireland now as opposed to Dublin and they'd all be going on about it but honestly, not one person has even mentioned it all week.

But sure for Christ's sake no-one in rural Ireland depends on buses, how could you! :pac:

pilly wrote: »

So why do the drivers keep going on about the vital services they provide to rural Ireland?

Couldn't tell you. You're many times more likely to find someone highly inconvenienced by this around where I live (Southside Cork suburb) than in Pallasgrean, I'll guarantee you that.

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Have any of the management team had their wages cut? We hear so much about cutting overtime etc but I wonder have the management team suffered.

Overtime is being cut but driver wages are actually going up, cutting overtime isn't suffering its removing a luxury, and they are actually getting a raise

pilly wrote: »

But this is exactly the point I'm making Walter. I live in a tiny village, work in another tiny village and shop in a small town. Not one person in all those remote rural places has complained about the lack of buses. So maybe they're not essential after all.

There is a bus stop in my village and I've never seen anyone get on or off the bus at it.

from what i'm hearing in the office in Dublin are just people complaining about the private buses they usually get being fuller then usual or them not being able to get on them because they've been full. Private operators from the commuter towns tend to be quicker and cheaper then BE , but at the minute don't have the capacity to take all those passengers pretty sure if BE goes bust , those private operators will be strait into the market for some extra coaches again no real loss.

1 or 2 people are actually using the private operators for the first time and are finding just how much better they are (Air Coach from Cork) and are saying they will probably use it instead in future.

Walter H Price wrote: »

from what i'm hearing in the office in Dublin are just people complaining about the private buses they usually get being fuller then usual or them not being able to get on them because they've been full. Private operators from the commuter towns tend to be quicker and cheaper then BE , but at the minute don't have the capacity to take all those passengers pretty sure if BE goes bust , those private operators will be strait into the market for some extra coaches again no real loss.

1 or 2 people are actually using the private operators for the first time and are finding just how much better they are (Air Coach from Cork) and are saying they will probably use it instead in future.

I'm not sure.
For me, I always take Bus Eireann's "GoBe" bus when I need to travel from Cork to Dublin airport as it is always emptier (thus more comfortable) and takes off from the sheltered bus depot.
In comparison, the aircoach is always uncomfortably mobbed and the boarding process takes considerable time. There is also the fact that waiting at their makeshift bus stop on a blustery Patrick's Quay that is open to the elements can be an ordeal in itself when the rain is lashing down.
GoBe definitely has the edge for sure.

Something I was wondering but as it's illegal for the government to give aid to Expressway, can they increase the subvention to public routes in order to get around that EU rule.

jimgoose wrote: »

In the Arigna coal facility, up to about 1990. I think Tara Zinc mine is still operating.

Tara Zinc mine is still in operation.

Walter H Price wrote: »

But private operators currently are cheaper and more efficient then Bus Eiren hence their loss making the Air Coach to Cork , Matthews Bus to Dundalk and Dublin Coach to Limerick / Kildare are all cheaper and quicker then Bus Eiren i'm totally missing your point here , private operators will be more cost effective have few layers of management , fewer drivers on probably lower wages, it's a no brainier.

Even in Dublin Private Operators are taking passengers from Dublin Bus the swords and Fingal express buses a prime example they run a lean model keeping overheads down run increased services t peak times cost 80c more then a Dublin bus 41 but take less then half the time to get from swords to the City Centre. All semi states , BE included should be sold off they belong to a different era

only on commercial/profitable routes. When it comes to routes paid for by the tax payers private operators will require the same or more subsidy to operate as profit will need to be taken into account. the current amount of drivers bus eireann have are needed to insure services can run and provide cover. fewer drivers = canceled services. lower wages also = less attraction to the job. a leaner model can only work on routes that are profitable, don't require economies of scale, and which just serve a to b.
all the operators you mention can operate fast services because they don't have to serve everywhere so are not comparible. the semistates don't belong to a different era, they belong in the here and now, and must not be sold off as it would lead to private profit and socialised loss and risk. not my job to subsidize private profit and it's not my job to be responsible for private risk/loss.

Walter H Price wrote: »

They do to a small, dispersed economically non viable number of people hence why it needs substantial government funding to stay relatively afloat.

It's own poor management and over staffing is whats utterly crippling it the same as the rest of the public sector , overstaffed , too many layers of management and red tape and completely beholden to the unions.

Time to wrap it up lads , last one out turn off the lights , tbh i hope they strike this company in to bankruptcy and Ross lets it go to the wall , might be a lesson to the rest of them , far too much pandering to the transport unions over the last two years.

it won't be a lesson to any union as there is no lesson for them to learn.

Shurimgreat wrote: »

From what I can see virtually the sole remaining beneficiaries of Bus Eireann, in a post open competition era, are pensioners and free travel pass users. I really don't think this is reason enough to keep a large overly bureaucratic organisation like Bus Eireann in business.

I'm sure there is another way, such as tax credits to the elderly, or even a significant increase in the old age pension to compensate for the loss of free travel.

The BE business model is fatally flawed. Its time to let the company go and look at alternatives.

it is our job to insure a state run bus service which can keep services going when the country was nearly bankrupt is provided so that those unable to drive or who are public transport conscious can access employment, education, and more. there is no other way, as removing the free travel will destroy local economies as people won't travel. the be business model is fine, it is the working practices that are a bit of an issue, and they are being sorted. it is not time to let the company go and look at more expensive alternatives. your dream of a low wage high tax economy will not be realised.