Garda Commissioner Refuses to Go.

_Kaiser_ · 27-03-2017 6:56pm

222233 wrote: »

So it's going to take three months - to get to the bottom of this??? Remind me again how long she has known about this.. please.

In 2/3 months we'll have had another scandal or two to distract us, Enda might still be hanging around long past his use-by date, and it'll be the summer when everyone (including the media and politicians) are in a "summer" mode - ie: perfect time for any "findings" to be quietly released and forgotten about.

please helpThank YOU · 27-03-2017 6:58pm

Garda Commissioner Noirin O Sullivan and Tusla HSE CEO Fred McBride and Minister for Justice Tanaiste Frances Fitzgerald should all Go. Over there Handling of Garda Maurice McCabe case . and an garda siochana and tusla chilld and family agency both agency should now be disbanded. and Noirin O Sullivan/ Fred McBride /Frances Fitzgerald should be brought down to the high court to face a Judge take them down. This new Scandal is the Straw that Broke the Camels Back.

madmaggie · 27-03-2017 6:58pm

It's no one's fault, it "a systems failure", a la the HSE.

diomed · 27-03-2017 6:58pm

Three months should be enough time to buy a scapegoat. How much are they?

27-03-2017 6:59pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

In 2/3 months we'll have had another scandal or two to distract us, Enda might still be hanging around long past his use-by date, and it'll be the summer when everyone (including the media and politicians) are in a "summer" mode - ie: perfect time for any "findings" to be quietly released and forgotten about.

Abso-fu**ing-lutely ridiculous, how much public money is going to wasted "investigating" this. Really need to develop an independent body like the FBI for investigating the likes of the Guards.

FTA69 · 27-03-2017 6:59pm

The absolute arrogance of the upper echelons of the Guards never ceases to astound me. I mean, she appears utterly incredulous that someone would dare criticise her or her role when she's presided over scandal after scandal repeatedly highlighting the sheer deficit of integrity and fitness for purpose at the heart of her organisation. This isn't just about her as a person either, it's institutional. I remember ten years ago during the discussions about the establishment of an Ombudsman and how ridiculous it was having the Guards investigate themselves and they were going apesh*t about it. 14 year olds turning up dead inside Garda cells and that eejit Nacie Rice seething on Prime Time about everything was grand and people should shut up.

Honestly, the problem is the cops in this country have always been a law unto themselves and they're incapable of enacting change unless it's forced on them.

BoatMad · 27-03-2017 7:00pm

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

Garda Commissioner Noirin O Sullivan and Tusla HSE CEO Fred McBride and Minister for Justice Tanaiste Frances Fitzgerald should all Go. Over there Handling of Garda Maurice McCabe case . and an garda siochana and tusla chilld and family agency both agency should now be disbanded. and Noirin O Sullivan/ Fred McBride /Frances Fitzgerald should be brought down to the high court to face a Judge take them down. This new Scandal is the Straw that Broke the Camels Back.

agree Fitzgerald should go, she's way way too cozy with the Gardai and is a prime apologist for them

27-03-2017 7:01pm

You know this country probably spends more money "investigating" the Gardai for every scandal at this stage than we do on things like life saving / changing medications, that's a pretty Sh*ty system. How is it possible for one organisation to have this many f. ups.

snowflaker · 27-03-2017 7:09pm

We need an external Commissioner from outside Ireland to come in and clean up the boys in blue

BoatMad · 27-03-2017 7:17pm

222233 wrote: »

You know this country probably spends more money "investigating" the Gardai for every scandal at this stage than we do on things like life saving / changing medications, that's a pretty Sh*ty system. How is it possible for one organisation to have this many f. ups.

simple its the last "Orish" institution after the church , the medical profession, planners and politicians , that hasn't been seriously investigated

It has been ingrained with the irish disease of lack of integrity and candour , Inn any other country , say like the UK , the Chief Constable would have been gone within 30 minutes of a discovery like what we have

its about time we dismantle date last Orish institution put in place at the foundation of the state, all the rest of them failed us , so its not unexpected

27-03-2017 7:19pm

BoatMad wrote: »

simple its the last "Orish" institution after the church , the medical profession, planners and politicians , that hasn't been seriously investigated

It has been ingrained with the irish disease of lack of integrity and candour , Inn any other country , say like the UK , the Chief Constable would have been gone within 30 minutes of a discovery like what we have

its about time we dismantle date last Orish institution put in place at the foundation of the state, all the rest of them failed us , so its not unexpected

Maurice Mc Cabe would make an excellent commissioner at least we know he possesses integrity.

No one will ever be held accountable in this country surely 1 million false recordings should warrant trial and perhaps prosecution.

RustyNut · 27-03-2017 7:20pm

FTA69 wrote: »

The absolute arrogance of the upper echelons of the Guards never ceases to astound me.

But it is not juse the upper echelons, there were 1,000,000 false breath tests recorded. It wasn't some chief superintend up in the park that invented them, it was the ordinary mule on the street that came up with them.

Mabey they were following some management policy when they lied about the work they done but they still done it and really who could blame them when you see the treatment that is handed out to the few members that have some levil of integrity and blow the whistle about bad practice within the organisation.

I believe it starts on day one in Templemore when the culture of loyalty over honesty is instilled into recruits.

Randle P. McMurphy · 27-03-2017 7:26pm

Skatedude wrote: »

I wonder is is this the usual issue of management telling staff "I dont care what you do, Just get it done" And then is surprised that It got done that way.

Probably happened many time to us in the work place.

More or less. It's the usual scenario where figures are demanded and used to assess staff and performance in the publc service. Everybody knows it's total bull****, but they have to play the game. Their promotions and career advancement depends on going along with the sham. Garda managers came up with unrealistic figures that are supposed to be met. These are the figures entered in to the system, not the actual figures. Everybody from the top management down to the lowest Garda knew the figures were bull****. It wasn't just an isolated district or manager, it was systemic everywhere. Everyone sitting on that press confererence today knows exactly what was happening and why. It will be interesting to see which poor sucker they are going to shaft and make carry the can.

BoatMad · 27-03-2017 7:34pm

Randle P. McMurphy wrote: »

More or less. It's the usual scenario where figures are demanded and used to assess staff and performance in the publc service. Everybody knows it's total bull****, but they have to play the game. Their promotions and career advancement depends on going along with the sham. Garda managers came up with unrealistic figures that are supposed to be met. These are the figures entered in to the system, not the actual figures. Everybody from the top management down to the lowest Garda knew the figures were bull****. It wasn't just an isolated district or manager, it was systemic everywhere. Everyone sitting on that press confererence today knows exactly what was happening and why. It will be interesting to see which poor sucker they are going to shaft and make carry the can.

The thing is though that this issue was highlighted to the Guards in 2014, when the organisation that buys the mouth pieces and calibrates the breath analysers, realised it was buying twice as many mouth pieces then was being claimed was being actually consumed

its one thing to claim theres been a problem , its entirely another when you have been told nearly three years ago and you have done absolutely nothing . Thats smacks of serious institutional arrogance and systemic failures that involve serious coverups

RustyNut · 27-03-2017 7:50pm

BoatMad wrote: »

its one thing to claim theres been a problem , its entirely another when you have been told nearly three years ago and you have done absolutely nothing . Thats smacks of serious institutional arrogance and systemic failures that involve serious coverups

The two things you would like to depend upon when it comes to an organisation that weilds power over you is honisty and integrity, the two things that you won't get from AGS.

BoatMad · 27-03-2017 7:55pm

RustyNut wrote: »

The two things you would like to depend upon when it comes to an organisation that weilds power over you is honisty and integrity, the two things that you won't get from AGS.

of must of the other institutions that gained power after 1922,

we dont do integrity as a people !! ,we do " cute hoorism " instead

mattser · 27-03-2017 8:02pm

Yes indeed, AGS has it's wrong ones, but the vast majority go out to do a days work as best they can, mostly in the face of adversity. People are entitled to have a go when things are wrong.

What really makes me sick is politicians calling for the commissioner to stand aside. No other democracy would stand by some of our elected, who laughed in the face of those who asked them to stand aside, for the truck loads of fcuk-ups they visited on their people.

Hypocrisy at it's most nauseating.

BoatMad · 27-03-2017 8:47pm

mattser wrote: »

Yes indeed, AGS has it's wrong ones, but the vast majority go out to do a days work as best they can, mostly in the face of adversity. People are entitled to have a go when things are wrong.

What really makes me sick is politicians calling for the commissioner to stand aside. No other democracy would stand by some of our elected, who laughed in the face of those who asked them to stand aside, for the truck loads of fcuk-ups they visited on their people.

Hypocrisy at it's most nauseating.

This is true , but the fact that our politicians havent integrity doesnt excuse our police force from having it

I happen to know many ordinary rank and file Garda , the culture is not conductive to integrity , and by extension the exposure of wrong doing , at any level . You cannot have integrity and yet institutionalise the persecution of those that speak up. The rank and file have been taught a very obvious lesson about what happens to whistle blowers.

The whole morality of the Guards is in question , thats the sad part

mattser · 27-03-2017 9:25pm

BoatMad wrote: »

This is true , but the fact that our politicians havent integrity doesnt excuse our police force from having it

I happen to know many ordinary rank and file Garda , the culture is not conductive to integrity , and by extension the exposure of wrong doing , at any level . You cannot have integrity and yet institutionalise the persecution of those that speak up. The rank and file have been taught a very obvious lesson about what happens to whistle blowers.

The whole morality of the Guards is in question , thats the sad part

I think we're both pretty much in agreement.

nice_guy80 · 27-03-2017 9:28pm

If she goes will she bring the husband with her as well?

Jobs for the boys, and girls

RustyNut · 27-03-2017 9:42pm

nice_guy80 wrote: »

If she goes will she bring the husband with her as well?

Jobs for the boys, and girls

That's about what you'd expect for a corrupt public official in this country. Go with a big pension make sure that your nepotism pays off as well.

......... · 27-03-2017 9:45pm

Noreen O'Sullivan - When she goes, who exactly are they going to get to replace her ? More of the exact same. The vey sad fact is our national Police force cannot be trusted at all, and the higher you go, the more rotten it gets. I hope I never have to ring the Guards for anything someday, I dread the day I have to deal with them. I feel very sorry for the ordinary decent Guards out there ( there are a few) who try their best every day regardless of the awful organisation they work for.

steddyeddy · 27-03-2017 9:46pm

A lot of gaurds, if not most do great work. As an organisation the gaurds shelter the very worst among them. They resist every change and as a result the old gaurd should should be removed. The commisioner, like a lot of senior gaurds have no connection to ordinary people.

I live in England and the police here are a lot better. I regularly go drinking with a few of them and one huge difference strikes me. Once gaurds enter Templemore they stick to themselves, drink with themselves and distance themselves from the general public. If you run a public service like a club it fosters mistrust on both sides. The UK police do a much better job of integrating.

steddyeddy · 27-03-2017 9:48pm

snowflaker wrote: »

We need an external Commissioner from outside Ireland to come in and clean up the boys in blue

Exactly this. I think the ombudsman was from the UK?

......... · 27-03-2017 9:49pm

snowflaker wrote: »

We need an external Commissioner from outside Ireland to come in and clean up the boys in blue

They will get nowhere.

27-03-2017 9:49pm

......... wrote: »

I hope I never have to ring the Guards for anything someday, I dread the day I have to deal with them. I feel very sorry for the ordinary decent Guards out there ( there are a few) who try their best every day regardless of the awful organisation they work for.

Well the ones that will be responding to your call are ordinary decent guards so don't know why you dread it.

......... · 27-03-2017 9:50pm

bubblypop wrote: »

Well the ones that will be responding to your call are ordinary decent guards so don't know why you dread it.

Because the ordinary decent guard is far outnumbered and has to keep his head down and his mouth very shut.

please helpThank YOU · 27-03-2017 10:01pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

A lot of gaurds, if not most do great work. As an organisation the gaurds shelter the very worst among them. They resist every change and as a result the old gaurd should should be removed. The commisioner, like a lot of senior gaurds have no connection to ordinary people.

I live in England and the police here are a lot better. I regularly go drinking with a few of them and one huge difference strikes me. Once gaurds enter Templemore they stick to themselves, drink with themselves and distance themselves from the general public. If you run a public service like a club it fosters mistrust on both sides. The UK police do a much better job of integrating.

My two First Cousins are Gaurds and 100 per cent have distance themselves for the public. One off them was mad into Soccer and never had any other interest in other sports now he loves the GAA sports ? I said this the him and he went red in the face .

27-03-2017 10:01pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

A lot of gaurds, if not most do great work. As an organisation the gaurds shelter the very worst among them. They resist every change and as a result the old gaurd should should be removed. The commisioner, like a lot of senior gaurds have no connection to ordinary people.

I live in England and the police here are a lot better. I regularly go drinking with a few of them and one huge difference strikes me. Once gaurds enter Templemore they stick to themselves, drink with themselves and distance themselves from the general public. If you run a public service like a club it fosters mistrust on both sides. The UK police do a much better job of integrating.

I lived in England in my childhood and regularly visit, I have a lot of family there. I also had, now retired, family in a police force over there.
To an extent, you are right. The police in England treat it as a job. Very few join and work for 30 yrs then retire. It is more of a 'vocation' if you like in Ireland. That's a historical thing.
I think there is a big cultural difference in policing in England and Ireland. For a start, there are many different police forces, we have one organisation, Tbh we don't need different forces like they do in England.
It's does lead to a parochial type of policing here.
Guards want to go closer to their 'homeplace' being closer to home means you know more people, which in turn may lead to more lax policing, not through badness, just because it's more of a wink & a nod attitude here.
The majority of people in Ireland don't actually want professional police force like England, they say they do, but then when they themselves are involved in something, be it as suspects or victims, they expect special treatment. Maybe they know the guard, or the local superindent, whatever.
Everyone wants everything above board and totally transparent, until they are stopped with no tax, or drink driving etc.. Then it's all ' but you know me guard, I'm a decent hard working local, go arrest real criminals' etc etc
I agree there is a big difference in English & Irish policing, I'm not sure if people really know which they actually want.

melloa · 27-03-2017 10:02pm

gardz don't lie

Garda Commissioner Refuses to Go.

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