Rugby 101 - Know your rucks from your mauls!

Losty Dublin · 16-09-2016 8:59pm

gaius c wrote: »

A maul can never become a ruck. You're thinking of a collapsed maul which is refereed differently. Opposition players are not obliged to roll away for instance.

Huh???

A ruck can't become a maul yeah but a maul can become a ruck.

All it takes is for the ball to be on the ground and for at least one player from each team to bind over the ball from a successfully ended maul. This can happen from a rip or from the ball carrier letting go of the ball and it going to ground or from the ball carrier legally going to ground. In the good old days, it was a common tactic for teams to let go of a ball mid maul in other to let it become a lawful ruck.

pickarooney · 19-09-2016 10:29am

A player can pick and go from a ruck while a team mate binds on, forming a maul.

Losty Dublin · 19-09-2016 10:56am

pickarooney wrote: »

A player can pick and go from a ruck while a team mate binds on, forming a maul.

Not in Law, no. Once a player picks up and passes or runs with the ball then the ruck is successfully over. What they may do is to try and form a new maul from open play which is what you've described here but I know what you mean.

gaius c · 19-09-2016 11:59am

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Huh??? A ruck can't become a maul yeah but a maul can become a ruck.

All it takes is for the ball to be on the ground and for at least one player from each team to bind over the ball from a successfully ended maul. This can happen from a rip or from the ball carrier letting go of the ball and it going to ground or from the ball carrier legally going to ground. In the good old days, it was a common tactic for teams to let go of a ball mid maul in other to let it become a lawful ruck.

Nope. Law 17.5.
Once the ball is on the ground, the maul is over.

The fact that you might get a ruck from this is incidental and players often misunderstand this.

Losty Dublin · 19-09-2016 7:32pm

gaius c wrote: »

Nope. Law 17.5.
Once the ball is on the ground, the maul is over.

The fact that you might get a ruck from this is incidental and players often misunderstand this.

Nobody is claiming that the ruck is part of the maul. Yes it's two different aspects of the game which are covered by two distinct laws but it is incorrect to say that it can't and doesn't happen that a maul can lawfully becomes a ruck.

gaius c · 19-09-2016 9:11pm

The maul ends.
The ruck forms.
One does not "become" the other any more than a pass "becomes" a knock on.

sydthebeat · 19-09-2016 9:16pm

gaius c wrote: »

The maul ends.
The ruck forms.
One does not "become" the other any more than a pass "becomes" a knock on.

go back to view the original question.....

When does a moving maul become a ruck? or can it?

thats why posters have referred to one act "becoming" others.

mfceiling · 24-09-2016 10:17am

Player kicks a penalty. Misses. Opponent attempting to catch it in the dead ball area knocks it on. Is it counted as a knock on and therefore a 5m scrum to the other team?

The Lost Sheep · 24-09-2016 5:49pm

mfceiling wrote: »

Player kicks a penalty. Misses. Opponent attempting to catch it in the dead ball area knocks it on. Is it counted as a knock on and therefore a 5m scrum to the other team?

Yes.

sydthebeat · 25-09-2016 12:41am

From a kick at goal, ball hits post and comes back into field of play, bounces back over the bar.

Score or no?

Any difference if a penalty or conversion?

pickarooney · 25-09-2016 6:28am

mfceiling wrote: »

Player kicks a penalty. Misses. Opponent attempting to catch it in the dead ball area knocks it on. Is it counted as a knock on and therefore a 5m scrum to the other team?

What's the dead ball area? There's the in goal area, in which case it's a 5m scrum, at the end o which is the dead ball line. If it's beyond the dead ball line it's off the pitch so if a player is standing there he's not in play.

Quin_Dub · 29-09-2016 12:48pm

mfceiling wrote: »

Player kicks a penalty. Misses. Opponent attempting to catch it in the dead ball area knocks it on. Is it counted as a knock on and therefore a 5m scrum to the other team?

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Yes.

I'm not sure that it is..

The ball is out of play if it's caught in the dead-ball area is it not, so it doesn't matter what the player does surely?

The Lost Sheep · 29-09-2016 6:00pm

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I'm not sure that it is..

The ball is out of play if it's caught in the dead-ball area is it not, so it doesn't matter what the player does surely?

From a penalty if a defending player knocks the ball on in the in goal area it is a 5m scrum to the opposition with the scrum formed in line where the infringement occurred. The ball is still in the playing area and while it isn't in the field of play it certainly does matter what player does

Quin_Dub · 29-09-2016 6:03pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

From a penalty if a defending player knocks the ball on in the in goal area it is a 5m scrum to the opposition with the scrum formed in line where the infringement occurred. The ball is still in the playing area and while it isn't in the field of play it certainly does matter what player does

In goal Area - Totally agree , knock-on, 5M scrum to the attacking team..

But the question was about the dead-ball area , which is not the field of play , it's out.

The Lost Sheep · 29-09-2016 6:05pm

Quin_Dub wrote: »

In goal Area - Totally agree , knock-on, 5M scrum to the attacking team..

But the question was about the dead-ball area , which is not the field of play , it's out.

I will assume op meant area between dead ball line and goal line so I was correct.

sydthebeat · 07-10-2016 9:33pm

One that stuck in my head from a game a few weeks ago.

Restart after a score and kicker grubbers it low and hard as it was a windy wet day.

Ref blows up saying ball must travel 10 before hitting the ground, scrum turnover.

Was he correct?

phog · 07-10-2016 10:34pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

One that stuck in my head from a game a few weeks ago.

Restart after a score and kicker grubbers it low and hard as it was a windy wet day.

Ref blows up saying ball must travel 10 before hitting the ground, scrum turnover.

Was he correct?

Yes.

Didn't Italy try that in Dublin to start a 6Ns game to get a scrum but Ireland won a penalty from the scrum.

The Lost Sheep · 07-10-2016 10:44pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

One that stuck in my head from a game a few weeks ago.

Restart after a score and kicker grubbers it low and hard as it was a windy wet day.

Ref blows up saying ball must travel 10 before hitting the ground, scrum turnover.

Was he correct?

The law doesn't state the ball must travel 10 before hitting the ground though. So no he wasn't. Ball must reach 10 metres but can hit ground beforehand

Conchir · 12-02-2017 2:13pm

In yesterdays match, around the 25 minute mark, Wales box kicked out from their 22. England didn't deal with it, and Dan Biggar recovered the ball and set off towards the England try line. He kicked ahead, and himself and Jack Nowell chased it down, with Nowell getting there first. Nowell was tackled by Biggar, and then got up, with Biggar still holding onto him with one hand.

My question is, was he not held in the tackle, and therefore not allowed get up?

I'm guessing I've interpreted it wrong, if someone could explain it that'd be great

errlloyd · 12-02-2017 2:14pm

Conchir wrote: »

In yesterdays match, around the 25 minute mark, Wales box kicked out from their 22. England didn't deal with it, and Dan Biggar recovered the ball and set off towards the England try line. He kicked ahead, and himself and Jack Nowell chased it down, with Nowell getting there first. Nowell was tackled by Biggar, and then got up, with Biggar still holding onto him with one hand.

My question is, was he not held in the tackle, and therefore not allowed get up?

I'm guessing I've interpreted it wrong, if someone could explain it that'd be great

I also thought Nowell was held, Penalty for me.

Conchir · 12-02-2017 4:40pm

errlloyd wrote: »

I also thought Nowell was held, Penalty for me.

I wouldn't even have questioned it but the lack of reaction to it at the time, in the part of the pitch it was in, had me doubting it.

Losty Dublin · 12-02-2017 9:18pm

Look back at the incident from about 32 minutes. Nowell wasn't held down by Bigger as he hit the floor. Under Law the tackle hasn't been completed so he was entitled to get back on and to play on. The replay shows it a lot more clearly if you let it run for a wee bit.

locum-motion · 14-02-2017 12:32am

Losty Dublin wrote: »

... Under Law the tackle hasn't been completed ...

Which Law?

MJohnston · 14-02-2017 12:38am

locum-motion wrote: »

Which Law?

Bird Law. It's not governed by reason.

.ak · 14-02-2017 10:35am

For me that's a completed tackle.

Anyway, in the scenario where a player is tackled to ground like that he can only get back up if he releases the ball on the deck. The tackler must release the tackled player also. You often see it in games when someone is conscience about being isolated, they'll release the ball, get back to their feet and pick the ball back up, buying time for support or making an extra break. It's risky tho as you're releasing the ball.

yoursaviour1989 · 17-02-2017 9:05pm

Just watching the Leinster game andesign a question popped up.
Ryan is gone for a HIA and has been replaced temporarily by Leavy. Since that happened VDF has since been injured and replaced by Mick Kearney. Obviously if Ryan returns Leinster will want to keep 3 natural back rows on the field. Can Leinster move Leavy in as a replacement for VDF and state that Kearney has now come on as a temporary replacement for Ryan?

Shelflife · 27-02-2017 2:46pm

If Ryan returned , It is Leavey that must go off. He could then replace Kearney as a tactical sub but Kearney wouldnt be able to come on again except as a blood replacement