Attack outside UK Houses Of Parliament — No speculation — Read 1st post

Help!!!! · 24-03-2017 02:10PM

ScumLord wrote: »

I haven't vilified any non muslims. Muslims make up 4.5% of the UK population according to wiki, 20% of those people want to bring in sharia law. That's less than 2% of the population. How exactly are they going to bring in sharia law? It's not worth worrying about, there's no legal path for Sharia law in the UK, in Ireland and throughout Europe. It's not ever going to happen so why would I worry about it? It's hysterics and a distraction to spend any time debating it.

I'm sure people said the same about the Nazi's, Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire etc.

Depp · 24-03-2017 02:11PM

ScumLord wrote: »

I haven't vilified any non muslims. Muslims make up 4.5% of the UK population according to wiki, 20% of those people want to bring in sharia law. That's less than 2% of the population. How exactly are they going to bring in sharia law? It's not worth worrying about, there's no legal path for Sharia law in the UK, in Ireland and throughout Europe. It's not ever going to happen so why would I worry about it? It's hysterics and a distraction to spend any time debating it.

with increased immigration that 4.5% increases by 60% year on year? that doesnt even count those that are radicalized in jail or college like so many are? Not saying you personally are villifying anyone but it seems to be the standard practice from the left in general to smear anyone who speaks out and paint them as a racist. Again not saying ban all refugees or immigrants either we just need to stop the bs and have an open and frank conversation, left and right, muslims and non muslims and stop the standard practice of calling everyone a racist or bigot or an anti-muslim extremist

Widdershins · 24-03-2017 02:12PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The evidence here suggests this guy had a violent past not related to Islam.
I think, not sure about you, that people who use violence are in some way disaffected. Some are disaffected for genuine reasons others not so much.

Disaffected people are vulnerable to 'causes', this guy could just as easily have done the same thing in the name of Britain First.

Both events, the death of Jo Cox and The Westminster attacks where committed by British born people. Surely the answer for Britain is to look at Britain first for answers or a cure?
And if you look at Britain, there is a large large problem with disaffection in general.

The murder of Jo Cox is not part of a wider or escalating problem and even so it is being looked at, and always has been. He is not roaming free on the streets, he has been dealt with. He is irrelevant to the conversation. Right wing extremism is far from ignored but right wingers arent the ones having the global jihadist insurgency, are they.

The Westminster attack was committed by a Brit Muslim, your attempts to highlight everything other than the religion are pointless. Muslim reformists are regularly asking people like you to stop doing this.

Now tell me why we should ''look at britain'', oh and France, Germany, Belgium, Austria, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, America, Canada,Africa and the Middle East for an answer rather than looking at the obvious and widely acknowledged cause, the religion of Islam? And again, other than giving refuge, financial and educational support and housing, and foreign aid, social inclusion programmes and god knows what else, what else should the entire world be doing for these not at all disaffected Islamist fanatics?

Other than a vague ''I think they must be a bit disaffected''.

FrancieBrady · 24-03-2017 02:14PM

Help!!!! wrote: »

ScumLord wrote: »

It's pretty amazing how people can twist anything into a negative for arguments sake these days.

You're inferring to much from what I said, I never said anything about not talking about it.

I think it was pretty obvious the conversation was about European Muslims changing the laws in Europe. What has the global population of Muslims got to do with that?[/QUOTE]

Well the way people want open borders it wont be long before they are not the minority, that & the fact they have lots of kids. So say 20 years down the line, their population has grown in Europe, the left are in agreement about Sharia, do you not think it will happen?

Surely the evidence in Europe shows that Muslims moderate their views when they reach the western world? Otherwise, would we not be in far more trouble with attacks everyday.
A surprising finding in that Pew research for me was that only 37% percent of US Muslims believe that 'there is only one true way to interpret their religion' and only 35% per cent believe theirs is the 'one true faith'.
Surely that shows 'moderation' when they come to live in the west.
100% of my mothers generation of Catholics would have believed theirs was the 'only' true faith. And I don't know how many times I was told growing up that it was an impertinence and a sin to make of the bible what I wanted to, that was the Pope's job.

The_Kew_Tour · 24-03-2017 02:15PM

ScumLord wrote: »

I haven't vilified any non muslims. Muslims make up 4.5% of the UK population according to wiki, 20% of those people want to bring in sharia law. That's less than 2% of the population. How exactly are they going to bring in sharia law? It's not worth worrying about, there's no legal path for Sharia law in the UK, in Ireland and throughout Europe. It's not ever going to happen so why would I worry about it? It's hysterics and a distraction to spend any time debating it.

By 2050 Irish people will be a minority on this Island. The projection is most will be Asian. Its time to start worrying.

infogiver · 24-03-2017 02:16PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Surely it should be important to note that this individual had a history of violent acts - he converted to Islam while he was in prison ... for violent crime. Sure, you can go on about how Islam is bad, blah blah blah, but not forgetting the fact that plenty of these people are, in fact, mentally ill or are just violent thugs.

I think this guy was primarily a violent thug, a violent thug who happened to convert to Islam as unfortunately its the religion that best suited his violent thuggish tendencies.
But he's done this because he was a violent thug primarily, probably with an absolute hatred of the Police and authority in general, committing suicide by cop, and looking for posthumous glory from the group he most strongly identified with, the violently thuggish IS.

Widdershins · 24-03-2017 02:16PM

ScumLord wrote: »

I haven't vilified any non muslims. Muslims make up 4.5% of the UK population according to wiki, 20% of those people want to bring in sharia law. That's less than 2% of the population. How exactly are they going to bring in sharia law? It's not worth worrying about, there's no legal path for Sharia law in the UK, in Ireland and throughout Europe. It's not ever going to happen so why would I worry about it? It's hysterics and a distraction to spend any time debating it.

Whether Sharia law will be attainable by enough of a Muslim presence is not as much of an issue as the fact that it is A)practised in extra legal shariah courts in the UK already and

supported and wanted by Muslims , and we do not know how many because we can only speak of those who contributed to surveys. It is another sign of extremism in the UK. The desire for sharia should be non existent.

Help!!!! · 24-03-2017 02:17PM

What people need to also understand is that Eritreans, Ethiopian's, Syrians, Somali's dont get along with each other & all come from war torn countries. So they end up bringing all that hatred to the west as well. The only thing Somali's bring anywhere is more crime & high unemployment rates

ScumLord · 24-03-2017 02:18PM

Depp wrote: »

with increased immigration that 4.5% increases by 60% year on year? that doesnt even count those that are radicalized in jail or college like so many are? Again not saying you personally ar villifying anyone but it seems to be the standard practice from the left in general to smear anyone who speaks out and paint them as a racist.

I think people should lose this idea of left and right politics, all it does is polarise arguments. There is no right and left divide, it's a media driven simplification.

60% increase on 4.5% is something like 1.6 million people a year moving to the UK. That seems like an unrealistic number, maybe I'm wrong?

It's still going to take Muslims generations to build up a population that could change the law in the UK to sharia, and that's on the assumption that British freedom won't corrupt them in the meantime.

24-03-2017 02:19PM

Christy42 wrote: »

Thank you for putting some numbers on it. Helps frame the conversation a bit better.

My opinion is that it is horrific. Sharia law is horrific and I will battle it from ever coming into force as I would any other law introduced on the basis of religion. I will also attempt to convince any who try and get religious laws enforced of the error of their ways.

There are 3 million muslims in England, out of approx 53 million.
If 20% of them would like Sharia law, I'd say we are safe enough!

FrancieBrady · 24-03-2017 02:20PM

Widdershins wrote: »

The murder of Jo Cox is not part of a wider or escalating problem and even so it is being looked at, and always has been. He is not roaming free on the streets, he has been dealt with. He is irrelevant to the conversation. Right wing extremism is far from ignored but right wingers arent the ones having the global jihadist insurgency, are they.

The Westminster attack was committed by a Brit Muslim, your attempts to highlight everything other than the religion are pointless. Muslim reformists are regularly asking people like you to stop doing this.

Now tell me why we should ''look at britain'', oh and France, Germany, Belgium, Austria, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, America, Canada,Africa and the Middle East for an answer rather than looking at the obvious and widely acknowledged cause, the religion of Islam? And again, other than giving refuge, financial and educational support and housing, and foreign aid, social inclusion programmes and god knows what else, what else should the entire world be doing for these not at all disaffected Islamist fanatics?

Other than a vague ''I think they must be a bit disaffected''.

Which is just another way of saying, 'I am not going to be deflected from my crusade'.
Fair enough. I grew up on an island where thousands died before the people responsible for the island faced up to what the real root causes were.
When they addressed the 'real' issues, the problems went away. There wasn't a rabid community of blood lusting psychopaths willing to overthrow the states in their quest after all.

I guess for some the solution to this current problem is going to be similarly hard to find.

24-03-2017 02:21PM

Help!!!! wrote: »

What people need to also understand is that Eritreans, Ethiopian's, Syrians, Somali's dont get along with each other & all come from war torn countries. So they end up bringing all that hatred to the west as well. The only thing Somali's bring anywhere is more crime & high unemployment rates

You know them all do you? Ignorant statement.

Depp · 24-03-2017 02:23PM

ScumLord wrote: »

I think people should lose this idea of left and right politics, all it does is polarise arguments. There is no right and left divide, it's a media driven simplification.

60% increase on 4.5% is something like 1.6 million people a year moving to the UK. That seems like an unrealistic number, maybe I'm wrong?

It's still going to take Muslims generations to build up a population that could change the law in the UK to sharia, and that's on the assumption that British freedom won't corrupt them in the meantime.

I absolutely agree its not a problem we will face next week or the week after but I really dont think the ''wait and see what happens'' approach is the best course of action to take.

bubblypop wrote: »

There are 3 million muslims in England, out of approx 53 million.
If 20% of them would like Sharia law, I'd say we are safe enough!

The mayor of london is a Muslim who has expressed sympathies with islamists in the past. Even going so far as to call moderate muslims ''uncle toms'' this has the potential to become a much bigger problem then you're allowing yourself to believe.

ScumLord · 24-03-2017 02:24PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

By 2050 Irish people will be a minority on this Island. The projection is most will be Asian. Its time to start worrying.

Says who?

Widdershins wrote: »

Whether Sharia law will be attainable by enough of a Muslim presence is not as much of an issue as the fact that it is A)practised in extra legal shariah courts in the UK already and supported and wanted by Muslims , and we do not know how many because we can only speak of those who contributed to surveys. It is another sign of extremism in the UK. The desire for sharia should be non existent.

The thing is though, if I wanted to voluntarily abide by the laws of star trek I could, up until the point I ran afoul of the law, then my star trek laws go out the window.

I quick google search shows there are no sharia courts in the UK. They have "councils" that can offer conflict resolution and create legally binding contracts, but it's not a court, it's voluntary and the law of the land always superseeds any decisions made by these councils.

FrancieBrady · 24-03-2017 02:29PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Says who?

The thing is though, if I wanted to voluntarily abide by the laws of star trek I could, up until the point I ran afoul of the law, then my star trek laws go out the window.

I quick google search shows there are no sharia courts in the UK. They have "councils" that can offer conflict resolution and create legally binding contracts, but it's not a court, it's voluntary and the law of the land always superseeds any decisions made by these councils.

But let not the reality get in the way of some good old fashioned scaremongering.

The_Kew_Tour · 24-03-2017 02:31PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Says who?

.

Many studies are projecting 10m mark by 2050. You only need google it.

You also only have walk around Dublin or Cork and the rapid change in even just last 2 to 3 years.

Remember Ireland Population is 4.6m and its went from 12% born outside Ireland in 2011 to 18-20% projection on this cencus.

Consider Ireland was still in recession in 2013 that upward curve is steep.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/politics/professor-believes-the-irish-will-be-an-ethnic-minority-in-ireland-by-2050

inforfun · 24-03-2017 02:32PM

Mayor of Brussels stated 2 days ago that every mosque in Brussels is controlled by salafists.
Reading this yesterday (no idea if it is blocked for anyone, could read it fine yesterday) and then lets start by kicking out every single hate preacher\iman or whatever those clowns are called imported from the middle east.

And keep them out.

Widdershins · 24-03-2017 02:32PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Says who?

The thing is though, if I wanted to voluntarily abide by the laws of star trek I could, up until the point I ran afoul of the law, then my star trek laws go out the window.

I quick google search shows there are no sharia courts in the UK. They have "councils" that can offer conflict resolution and create legally binding contracts, but it's not a court, it's voluntary and the law of the land always superseeds any decisions made by these councils.

I beg your pardon, councils, that's ok then, is it? Why do you think issues are brought to sharia councils rather than before a court of law? And I was well aware, without the need to Google.

Sorry the facts and the implications don't suit you Francie but I'm more concerned about human rights than your obsession with keeping facts and issues hidden and denied to supposedly avoid ''scaremongering''. According to you the attacker in London might have killed and crippled people because he was just trying to get away. You go to incredible lengths in your noble anti scaremongering quest!

Christy42 · 24-03-2017 02:33PM

bubblypop wrote: »

There are 3 million muslims in England, out of approx 53 million.
If 20% of them would like Sharia law, I'd say we are safe enough!

I don't think it is likely. More that their beliefs are horrific. I reckon Iona would agree with them on criminalisation of gay relationships for instance but I can't see them bringing it in either. I can still give out about the minority of people with those beliefs.

Depp · 24-03-2017 02:33PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Says who?

The thing is though, if I wanted to voluntarily abide by the laws of star trek I could, up until the point I ran afoul of the law, then my star trek laws go out the window.

I quick google search shows there are no sharia courts in the UK. They have "councils" that can offer conflict resolution and create legally binding contracts, but it's not a court, it's voluntary and the law of the land always superseeds any decisions made by these councils.

google that again there, lot of results coming up...also google sharia patrols uk. While it may be voluntary for some, the majority affected by this it seems that its compulsary by virtue of family or community members enforcing it. Do you think its right to have fgm and honor killing for girls who have premarital sex is right in the modern western world?

Help!!!! · 24-03-2017 02:35PM

Omackeral wrote: »

You know them all do you? Ignorant statement.

Maybe you are the ignorant one, have you ever been around hundreds of them??

https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2015/07/25/denmark-astonished-at-1000-muslim-somali-majority-crime-numbers/

http://www.snouts-in-the-trough.com/archives/5585

Widdershins · 24-03-2017 02:36PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Many studies are projecting 10m mark by 2050. You only need google it.

You also only have walk around Dublin or Cork and the rapid change in even just last 2 to 3 years.

Remember Ireland Population is 4.6m and its went from 12% born outside Ireland in 2011 to 18-20% projection on this cencus.

Consider Ireland was still in recession in 2013 that upward curve is steep.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/politics/professor-believes-the-irish-will-be-an-ethnic-minority-in-ireland-by-2050

inforfun wrote: »

Mayor of Brussels stated 2 days ago that every mosque in Brussels is controlled by salafists.
Reading this yesterday (no idea if it is blocked for anyone, could read it fine yesterday) and then lets start by kicking out every single hate preacher\iman or whatever those clowns are called imported from the middle east.

And keep them out.

If we are to try to tackle jihadism we can't ignore this in case someone somewhere feels a bit scared. The reformists living under death threats are probably scared sometimes but they plough on.

Widdershins · 24-03-2017 02:38PM

Depp wrote: »

google that again there, lot of results coming up...also google sharia patrols uk. While it may be voluntary for some, the majority affected by this it seems that its compulsary by virtue of family or community members enforcing it. Do you think its right to have fgm and honor killing for girls who have premarital sex is right in the modern western world?

And at that, would they go the sharia route voluntarily if they weren't raised within it and surrounded by family and maybe community who do things that way, though? I question if it can ever be genuinely voluntary, especially for women.

SEPT 23 1989 · 24-03-2017 02:39PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Many studies are projecting 10m mark by 2050. You only need google it.

You also only have walk around Dublin or Cork and the rapid change in even just last 2 to 3 years.

Remember Ireland Population is 4.6m and its went from 12% born outside Ireland in 2011 to 18-20% projection on this cencus.

Consider Ireland was still in recession in 2013 that upward curve is steep.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/politics/professor-believes-the-irish-will-be-an-ethnic-minority-in-ireland-by-2050

2025 for the Blanchardstown area i read in some report

FrancieBrady · 24-03-2017 02:40PM

Widdershins wrote: »

I beg your pardon, councils, that's ok then, is it? Why do you think issues are brought to sharia councils rather than before a court of law? And I was well aware, without the need to Google.

Sorry the facts and the implications don't suit you Francie but I'm more concerned about human rights than your obsession with keeping facts and issues hidden and denied to supposedly avoid ''scaremongering''. According to you the attacker in London might have killed and crippled people because he was just trying to get away. You go to incredible lengths in your noble anti scaremongering quest!

Hey, it wasn't me who tried to misrepresent the facts.

You say, 'the desire for Sharia should be non existent'.

I say, just like Catholicism, religions evolve. And the evidence clearly is that when it comes to western society, Islam evolves and dilutes. Otherwise the 'caliphate' would be more likely and not a pipe dream.
Purposely leaving out the 'fact' that Sharia adherence is voluntary and that they are 'councils' and not 'courts' in the UK is to attempt to scaremonger. I'm sorry if the truth hurts.

Depp · 24-03-2017 02:41PM

Widdershins wrote: »

And at that, would they go the sharia route voluntarily if they weren't raised within it and surrounded by family and maybe community who do things that way, though? I question if it can ever be genuinely voluntary, especially for women.

For a woman born into a muslim family/community its absolutely not voluntary.

24-03-2017 02:42PM

Help!!!! wrote: »

Maybe you are the ignorant one, have you ever been around hundreds of them??

https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2015/07/25/denmark-astonished-at-1000-muslim-somali-majority-crime-numbers/

http://www.snouts-in-the-trough.com/archives/5585

Seriously, the first link is to a site where the logo is an Islamic Crescent with a bloodied dagger going through it and the second one has sections on it called 'Jizzlam' and 'Libtards'.

And no I haven't been around 'hundreds of them' as you so nicely put it. I went to school with two Somalian lads who were absolutely leagues ahead of most of the class in maths. There's also a fella in my local Tesco who seems to be smiling anytime I pop in, he's probably plotting something.

Depp · 24-03-2017 02:43PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Hey, it wasn't me who tried to misrepresent the facts.

You say, 'the desire for Sharia should be non existent'.

I say, just like Catholicism, religions evolve. And the evidence clearly is that when it comes to western society, Islam evolves and dilutes. Otherwise the 'caliphate' would be more likely and not a pipe dream.
Purposely leaving out the 'fact' that Sharia adherence is voluntary and that they are 'councils' and not 'courts' in the UK is to attempt to scaremonger. I'm sorry if the truth hurts.

Bit Ironic you're calling out someone for misrepresenting facts but then insist sharia is completely voluntary. This may be the legal definition but do you have any idea how these people/communities operate in reality?

24-03-2017 02:45PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Many studies are projecting 10m mark by 2050. You only need google it.

You also only have walk around Dublin or Cork and the rapid change in even just last 2 to 3 years.

Remember Ireland Population is 4.6m and its went from 12% born outside Ireland in 2011 to 18-20% projection on this cencus.

Consider Ireland was still in recession in 2013 that upward curve is steep.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/politics/professor-believes-the-irish-will-be-an-ethnic-minority-in-ireland-by-2050

So where were these people born then?
Does it break down country of birth?
What does that have to do with muslims, or Sharia law or any of it?

ScumLord · 24-03-2017 02:46PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Many studies are projecting 10m mark by 2050. You only need google it.

Many studies, where are they? you've posted a story that's basically giving one guys opinion. He may be a pretty smart guy but this isn't he's field of expertise and he didn't do an actual study from what I could see.

Widdershins wrote: »

I beg your pardon, councils, that's ok then, is it? Why do you think issues are brought to sharia councils rather than before a court of law?

My first guess would be it's likely a lot cheaper to go to a council. If two neighbours go to court it costs them a load of money, they end up in conflict rather than looking for resolution and they often end up never speaking again. The point of the councils seems to be to find a mutually beneficial resolution. I don't see anything wrong with that on the face of it. Unless you can give me some example of something that's wrong with this form of private resolutions? I don't see anything wrong with it, in my experience everyone would better off finding alternatives to court.

Attack outside UK Houses Of Parliament — No speculation — Read 1st post

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