Attack outside UK Houses Of Parliament — No speculation — Read 1st post

jackofalltrades · 23-03-2017 10:43PM

Grayson wrote: »

The fact is that the vast majority of people who are right wing aren't far right wing. The same goes for Islam.
And if you want to say there's something wrong with Islam than you have to accept that there's something inherently violent about conservatives.

donkeykong5 · 23-03-2017 10:44PM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Another dies
Death toll rises
Man in hospital died from his injuries

Damn. Awful bloody news.

Ulysses Gaze · 23-03-2017 10:45PM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Honestly when I brought up things about HRC/Obama and so on in the past to defend Trump, I was instantly slammed as deflecting. Now the narrative of people is bringing up Catholic Priests, the IRA, and other terrorists as somewhat of a defense mechanism inciting if others have done bad things, there isn't a problem.

The double standard of the left is ridiculous, and quite honestly, a waste of time engaging in such discussions.

How quick some of the left are to defend Islam come what may is truly remarkable.

The same people have no problem excoriating Christianity and the Catholic Church and to hell if it insults others.

wakka12 · 23-03-2017 10:45PM

Grayson wrote: »

Nobody on the planet thinks that? there's loads. Maybe nobody on this forum but there's plenty of right wing nutjobs.

Not even the most right wing nuttiest nut job from mars thinks it. You think a right wing nut job thinks all muslim college students are terrorists? All muslim children in high school? All muslim elderly women in nursing homes? all muslim people sick in hospital? All muslim nurses and doctors? All muslim women in the park with their babies in their arms? I stand by my statement that there is NOBODY on earth who thinks ALL muslims are terrorists

Ulysses Gaze · 23-03-2017 10:46PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Really? I've found that lots of the people who accuse everyone of being islamaphobes find anti Semitism perfectly acceptable

The Labour Party in the UK is infested with these types of people.

Grayson · 23-03-2017 10:46PM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Brevik, or Priests who abused Children, are scumbags. I still believe it to be not comparable though, ISIS is a terrorist group who has killed tens of thousands and are actively looking to recruit people to attack the West, entirely different situation. Parts of the teaching of their Religion advocate for physical violence against non believers. We're letting people in may who influence others to commit terrorism, or in some cases terrorists themselves get a free ride.

Forget the extremism and terrorism though for a second. Do you think forced multiculturalism from terror prone regions like we've seen in recent years adds a positive or negative aspect to developed European countries, in respect to economic and social benefits? Respected polls have shown the majority of people in the EU are entirely against Muslim immigration from such regions. Merkel, who most would consider strongly on the left, has said Multiculturalism is a fictional myth creating parallel societies and that it has utterly failed in Germany.

I'll agree with ISIS. But Isis are not all Muslims. they account for a tiny percentage. And there's two type of Muslims. The ones that flee ISIS (Now in the millions) and those that join them. ISIS really only have tens of thousands of fighters and probably the same number of supporters.

By all means vet refugees. And a discussion about the economic impact is important too. However that's a different matter from saying that Islam is the problem.

Just because some Muslims are bad is not the same as saying Islam is bad. Just because it says that violence is OK in the Koran does not mean that Muslims are violent. I posted a study in this thread yesterday that shows that the bible is more violent. And that's either the old or new testament.

If people on the right had their way then a refugee like Malala Yousafzai would be banned.

Widdershins · 23-03-2017 10:47PM

Grayson wrote: »

Jews killed German diplomats. Remember that? they also committed lots of acts of terrorism in Palestine. The first modern suicide bomber in the middle east was a jew. People who wanted to hate jews found their reasons to hate jews.

Of course that's different because we like jews now but hate muslims.

You ignored the rest of my original post. Should we ban priests? 6% in Boston were paedophiles. 6% is a very, very high number. Far higher than the number of muslims that have committed a terrorist attack. There's a far higher correlation between Catholicism/paedophilia than there is between Muslims/Terrorism. Should we ban priests from coming into the country? Does being catholic mean that you're more likely to be a paedophile? Should we monitor catholic communities and give them extra vetting? This is a religion that has endorsed the killing of non believers, encourages the spread of the faith (sometimes by force) and actively covers up child abuse. There's obviously something inherently wrong with that religion. I mean, have you read their holy book. It's filled with more violence than the Koran.
Or do you just not care about the children.

''we like Jews but hate Muslims'' doesn't really deserve a response. You should try to get out of that mindset. There isn't a need to speak equally of every aspect of every religion. The rest of that comment is as contentious. Isreal and Hamas are not comparable to Isil and everyone else. And the UN have no input into Isil's conduct.

There's definitely something wrong with the Bible. The more devout the Christian the more likely they are to be looney, in my opinion. Luckily, they tend not to be so devout nowadays.

If Christians develop new expansionist tendencies and so on, we would of course need to examine it.We have enough to deal with as it is with the violent loonies of one religion.

The_Kew_Tour · 23-03-2017 10:47PM

Grayson you come out with some of the most baffling BS on boards

Grayson · 23-03-2017 10:48PM

wakka12 wrote: »

Not even the most right wing nuttiest nut job from mars thinks it. You think a right wing nut job thinks all muslim college students are terrorists? All muslim children in high school? All muslim elderly women in nursing homes? all muslim people sick in hospital? All muslim nurses and doctors? All muslim women in the park with their babies in their arms? I stand by my statement that there is NOBODY on earth who thinks ALL muslims are terrorists

Hank Scorpio · 23-03-2017 10:49PM

Grayson wrote: »

I'll agree with ISIS. But Isis are not all Muslims. they account for a tiny percentage. And there's two type of Muslims. The ones that flee ISIS (Now in the millions) and those that join them. ISIS really only have tens of thousands of fighters and probably the same number of supporters.

By all means vet refugees. And a discussion about the economic impact is important too. However that's a different matter from saying that Islam is the problem.

Just because some Muslims are bad is not the same as saying Islam is bad. Just because it says that violence is OK in the Koran does not mean that Muslims are violent. I posted a study in this thread yesterday that shows that the bible is more violent. And that's either the old or new testament.

If people on the right had their way then a refugee like Malala Yousafzai would be banned.

You've completely ignored the social question which was kind of the brunt of my whole reply and what I was trying to get at. Argue terrorism all you want, but forced multiculturalism from these regions has failed and failed badly.

donkeykong5 · 23-03-2017 10:49PM

wakka12 wrote: »

Grayson wrote: »

Nobody on the planet thinks that? there's loads. Maybe nobody on this forum but there's plenty of right wing nutjobs.

Not even the most right wing nuttiest nut job from mars thinks it. You think a right wing nut job thinks all muslim college students are terrorists? All muslim children in high school? All muslim elderly women in nursing homes? all muslim people sick in hospital? All muslim nurses and doctors? All muslim women in the park with their babies in their arms? I stand by my statement that there is NOBODY on earth who thinks ALL muslims are terrorists

Yeah. But..........some of them are. !

Hank Scorpio · 23-03-2017 10:51PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Grayson you come out with some of the most baffling BS on boards

There's far worse, believe me. Grayson is at least respectable in arguing his position even if I strongly disagree with him and sometimes, not intentionally snap at him. Others will straight up call you racist when discussing such topics, and tend to get away it.

wakka12 · 23-03-2017 10:51PM

Grayson wrote: »

Jews killed German diplomats. Remember that? they also committed lots of acts of terrorism in Palestine. The first modern suicide bomber in the middle east was a jew. People who wanted to hate jews found their reasons to hate jews.

Of course that's different because we like jews now but hate muslims.

You ignored the rest of my original post. Should we ban priests? 6% in Boston were paedophiles. 6% is a very, very high number. Far higher than the number of muslims that have committed a terrorist attack. There's a far higher correlation between Catholicism/paedophilia than there is between Muslims/Terrorism. Should we ban priests from coming into the country? Does being catholic mean that you're more likely to be a paedophile? Should we monitor catholic communities and give them extra vetting? This is a religion that has endorsed the killing of non believers, encourages the spread of the faith (sometimes by force) and actively covers up child abuse. There's obviously something inherently wrong with that religion. I mean, have you read their holy book. It's filled with more violence than the Koran.
Or do you just not care about the children.

Well the rates of paedophilia have changed people's opinions and attitudes towards priests and the church massively. For instance, bet you'd be hard pushed to find a parent who'd leave their children in the care of a priest in modern day ireland
And I agree with all your other points about the church and its wrongs its committed. None of this is really helping your arguments as these things have completely changed the irish attitude towards the church , it now has very little power or respect and people are extremely weary of church staff due to past child abuses

You are phrasing your post as if these abuses have not changed anything, and gone unnoticed, that we are not treating the church as they should be treated for their wrongdoing and yet we are treating muslims wearily for the few terrorist attacks that have occurred. This is not a good comparison

Grayson · 23-03-2017 10:51PM

Widdershins wrote: »

''we like Jews but hate Muslims'' doesn't really deserve a response. You should try to get out of that mindset. There isn't a need to speak equally of every aspect of every religion. The rest of that comment is as contentious. Isreal and Hamas are not comparable to Isil and everyone else. And the UN have no input into Isil's conduct.

There's definitely something wrong with the Bible. The more devout the Christian the more likely they are to be looney, in my opinion. Luckily, they tend not to be so devout nowadays.

If Christians develop new expansionist tendencies and so on, we would of course need to examine it.We have enough to deal with as it is with the violent loonies of one religion.

Christians aren't expansionist? Have you heard of missionaries?

And you think Judaism is fine? So you're ok with the way that women are treated in Orthodox Judaism?

I didn't being Hamas up but are you actually saying that the difference between ISIS and Hamas/Israel is that the UN is involved with one? Yeah... That's the difference.

wakka12 · 23-03-2017 10:53PM

Grayson wrote: »

You don't think he might be saying that to ryle people up? Get a reaction? Answer my question, do you think theres anyone on planet earth who genuinely believes all muslim children, say under 5 years old are terrorists?

Grayson · 23-03-2017 10:53PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Grayson you come out with some of the most baffling BS on boards

Then how about you actually take a look at my post and point out the logical/factual inaccuracies.

The_Kew_Tour · 23-03-2017 10:54PM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

There's far worse, believe me. Grayson is at least respectable in arguing his position even if I strongly disagree with him and sometimes, not intentionally snap at him. Others will straight up call you racist when discussing such topics, and tend to get away it.

I'm all for people having opinion, but the excuses are just baffling, worrying and reason why things will never go forward.

Grayson · 23-03-2017 10:55PM

wakka12 wrote: »

You don't think he might be saying that to ryle people up? Get a reaction? Answer my question, do you think theres anyone on planet earth who genuinely believes all muslim children, say under 5 years old are terrorists?

Maybe that guy does. He said it.

And of course when a bigot shouts "You're all terrorists" he's just trolling. He's just doing it to rile people up. It can't be because he actually means it.

Is that what it's come to. A bigot shouts offensive stuff and you try to make excuses?

WinnyThePoo · 23-03-2017 10:56PM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

When I brought up things about HRC/Obama and so on in the past to defend Trump, I was instantly slammed as deflecting. Now the narrative of people is bringing up Catholic Priests, the IRA, and other terrorists as somewhat of a defense mechanism inciting if others have done bad things, there isn't a problem.

The double standard of the left is ridiculous, and quite honestly, a waste of time engaging in such discussions.

You don't make the rules Hank. You consistently used deflection in the trump threads when you had nothing to add.

Who are the left Hank?

jackofalltrades · 23-03-2017 10:58PM

Grayson wrote: »

By all means vet refugees. And a discussion about the economic impact is important too. However that's a different matter from saying that Islam is the problem.

Just because some Muslims are bad is not the same as saying Islam is bad. Just because it says that violence is OK in the Koran does not mean that Muslims are violent.
I posted a study in this thread yesterday that shows that the bible is more violent. And that's either the old or new testament.

Islam is the problem.
If Islam didn't exist, Islamist violence wouldn't exist.
You're argument is akin to saying only a tiny minority of racists are violent, therefore racism isn't the problem.

If people on the right had their way then a refugee like Malala Yousafzai would be banned.

I'm on the right. I wouldn't have Malala Yousafzai banned.
This is in the same category as saying "All Muslims are terrorists".
The right encompasses a lot of different views and beliefs.
You seem to be persistently and incorrectly conflating extreme right views with right wing views.

Grayson · 23-03-2017 10:58PM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

There's far worse, believe me. Grayson is at least respectable in arguing his position even if I strongly disagree with him and sometimes, not intentionally snap at him. Others will straight up call you racist when discussing such topics, and tend to get away it.

There;'s at least 3 people active right now on the thread who have called me names in the past or said outright that I like seeing the death of others.

You and I are actually pretty close in opinion. It's just our views on islam. Even then I think we have more in common that differences.

I think the two core differences are

1) what percentage of Muslims are terrorist?
2) is it possible for a moderate Muslim to integrate/live in a western country.
Is that about it?

wakka12 · 23-03-2017 11:00PM

Grayson wrote: »

Maybe that guy does. He said it.

And of course when a bigot shouts "You're all terrorists" he's just trolling. He's just doing it to rile people up. It can't be because he actually means it.

Is that what it's come to. A bigot shouts offensive stuff and you try to make excuses?

Im not making excuses for him. He shouldn't even enter into the argument as he is so ridiculous and his mindset is not common even among right wing people. Im trying to get away from this because it deflects from the issue at hand, about the issue of islamic terrorism within the islamic community. You say not all muslims are terrorists when we discuss this. I say nobody ever said that, because no reasonable person has said that in this thread. Then you post that^..And around in circles we go

and thats how the entire discussion gets ridiculous and deviates from what we actually want to discuss reasonably.

The_Kew_Tour · 23-03-2017 11:02PM

Another huge problem these days is that any left wing nut job who thinks anybody is right wing means they must be racist.

They're left wing nut jobs out there too, who cause own social problems

Noddyholder · 23-03-2017 11:04PM

Grayson wrote: »

There;'s at least 3 people active right now on the thread who have called me names in the past or said outright that I like seeing the death of others.

You and I are actually pretty close in opinion. It's just our views on islam. Even then I think we have more in common that differences.

I think the two core differences are

1) wheat percentage of Muslims are terrorist?
2) is it possible for a moderate Muslim to integrate/live in a western country.
Is that about it?

I would like folks here opinions/answer on that . I would answer yes to 2, don't know 1

Ulysses Gaze · 23-03-2017 11:04PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Another huge problem these days is that any left wing nut job who thinks anybody is right wing means they must be racist.

They're left wing nut jobs out there too, who cause own social problems

You have Left Wing nutjobs that posted on The Guardian website that Ed Miliband was a Far-Right politician.

The man known as "Red" Ed for Christs sake!!!!

Hank Scorpio · 23-03-2017 11:07PM

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

You don't make the rules Hank. You consistently used deflection in the trump threads when you had nothing to add.

Who are the left Hank?

As far as US politics go, people like Schumer, Pelosi, Waters, and pretty much the crust of the entire Democratic party or as I like to view them the identity politics party.

Media wise sites like the BBC, Vox, MSNBC, The Huffington Post, CNN, Buzzfeed among others.

Talking about people here in this thread, those who are clinging to the belief that there hasn't been something brewing in Europe in recent years with regards immigration and terrorism, with Islam being the common factor - and refusing to recognize that ignoring this problem it will continually get worse.

According to polls, the majority of people in Europe want this immigration stopped from terror prone regions, not just for terrorism reasons, but because of the social impact, the silent majority will always be there.

ScumLord · 23-03-2017 11:08PM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

I'd say the only people with mental issues are the ones calling attacks like this ineffective and trying to brush it off. Incredibly insulting to the victims. Hundreds dead in Europe since Dec 2015 from radical Islamic terrorism, fact.

What did it achieve? Is London really any more terrorised? Is the UK grinding to a halt? Is the UK going to stop their military campaigns because they're afraid?

They murdered people and it achieved nothing, ISIS have shown their ability to strike against their enemies is pathetic and incapable of nothing more than random acts of isolated violence.

Hank Scorpio · 23-03-2017 11:16PM

ScumLord wrote: »

What did it achieve? Is London really any more terrorised? Is the UK grinding to a halt? Is the UK going to stop their military campaigns because they're afraid?

They murdered people and it achieved nothing, ISIS have shown their ability to strike against their enemies is pathetic and incapable of nothing more than random acts of isolated violence.

They murdered 137 people in a single attack in France a year ago injuring another 400. Back in July in France they killed another 100 with 400+ injured. A year ago they killed 34 people in Brussels injuring 350. In recent times times in the US they've been major attacks killing people in nightclub with automatic weapons.

Are those insignificant? It's only a matter of time until the next attack, and you nor I know how "significant" it will be. Your comment is extremely disrespectful to the people who died yesterday btw and their families.

ceadaoin. · 23-03-2017 11:19PM

ScumLord wrote: »

They murdered people and it achieved nothing, ISIS have shown their ability to strike against their enemies is pathetic and incapable of nothing more than random acts of isolated violence.

They did achieve something, they murdered people. That's what they want, to kill "infidels" so in that sense it was a success. They don't care about shutting places down, causing inconvenience to commuters or instilling fear. All they want is people dead and more people to be encouraged to commit similar acts

gitzy16v · 23-03-2017 11:19PM

Grayson wrote: »

Is that what it's come to. A bigot shouts offensive stuff and you try to make excuses?

And a follower of Islam kills innocent civilians and people try to make excuses.
Yes that's what it's come to.
(Not directed to you personally Grayson)

Attack outside UK Houses Of Parliament — No speculation — Read 1st post

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