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Coast Guard helicopter missing of Mayo coast.

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Comments

  • #32
    AmboMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 129 ✭✭AmboMan


    Steve wrote: »
    What is the allowable timescale before blood loss, shock, gangarene, septicemia or other infections become relevant and / or life threatening?

    Really, I'd like to know?

    I know how many hours this poor person was from hospital.

    IMO the amputation of a digit would not cause Hypovolemic shock (shock from blood loss) Infections such as sepsis would normally only appear 3-5 days post injury/surgery.


  • #33
    Steve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,575 ✭✭✭✭Steve


    AmboMan wrote: »
    IMO the amputation of a digit would not cause Hypovolemic shock (shock from blood loss) Infections such as sepsis would normally only appear 3-5 days post injury/surgery.

    So, that said, do you think a 20 hour wait before even first aid treatment is non life threatening?


  • #34
    degsie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,790 ✭✭✭degsie


    Some petty squabbling going on here. Sad really.

    RIP to the crew.


  • #35
    ...And Justice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭...And Justice


    Steve wrote: »
    So, that said, do you think a 20 hour wait before even first aid treatment is non life threatening?

    You only have to look at deadliest catch to see how much minor injuries can become life threatening, I know it's a tv program, but dirty trawlers, bacteria and fish blood can cause serious infections. So 20 hours could have been life and death. If the tragedy hadn't happened, this would have been another day in the life of rescue workers that nobody would've heard of.


  • #36
    Steve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,575 ✭✭✭✭Steve


    Release from AAIU
    The AAIU wishes to extend its sincere sympathies to the families and friends of the crew of R116.
    The Chief Inspector of Air Accidents, Mr. Jurgen Whyte, in consultation with the appointed Investigator-in-Charge, Mr. Paul Farrell, wishes to make the following statement.
    An AAIU investigation into the circumstances of the loss of R116 is underway. As with all AAIU investigations, this Investigation will be evidence based.
    The Investigation has been working with the Garda Síochána, Coast Guard, Irish Air Corps, the Irish Marine Institute, and many local persons and agencies with the primary objective of locating and recovering the missing crew members.
    In addition, the AAIU is anxious to recover and examine as much wreckage as possible, and in particular to recover the combined voice and flight data recorder (“black box”). The AAIU, in accordance with international convention, has an Accredited Representative from the US National Transportation Safety Board (as state of design and manufacture); that representative has advisers from the US Federal Aviation Administration and the aircraft manufacturer. The AAIU has also received assistance, support and advice from the UK Air Accidents Investigation Branch two of whose inspectors attended Blacksod.
    A significant amount of wreckage has been recovered from the sea and this has been logged and will be brought to the AAIU wreckage facility in Gormanston, Co Meath, for detailed examination.
    Furthermore, the AAIU has visited Black Rock Light House, on the approaches to Blacksod bay, which is close to the last recorded position of the helicopter. Some helicopter wreckage has been recovered from the general area of Black Rock Light House. This wreckage is primarily from the tail area of the helicopter. At this early stage in the investigation it is not possible to be definitive about the exact nature of damage to the recovered wreckage or indeed the circumstances of the accident. However, there appears to be marks on some of the recovered wreckage which are consistent with the tail of the aircraft contacting rocky surfaces on the Western end of Blackrock. The Investigation has not yet definitively identified the initial point of impact.
    Equipment aboard surface search vessels has detected a signal which is believed to be from the underwater locator beacon attached to the aircraft’s “Black Box”. This signal points toward an area which will be the focus of further, multi-agency investigation activities at the earliest opportunity, subject to weather.


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  • #37
    AmboMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 129 ✭✭AmboMan


    Steve wrote: »
    So, that said, do you think a 20 hour wait before even first aid treatment is non life threatening?

    I don't understand your question but an amputation of a digit is not a life threatening emergency. 20hrs, 20mins or 2 days would have little bearing on the outcome for the patient.


  • #38
    AmboMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 129 ✭✭AmboMan


    I'm going to stop posting in the thread as my opinion that two aircraft plus ambulance and other ground resources were not necessary for an amputation of a digit are obviously upsetting to some people.


  • #39
    Steve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,575 ✭✭✭✭Steve


    AmboMan wrote: »
    I'm going to stop posting in the thread as my opinion that two aircraft plus ambulance and other ground resources were not necessary for an amputation of a digit are obviously upsetting to some people.

    :)

    I wish you well in your medical career.

    The fact that Coast Guard crew died in the course of this are upsetting a lot of people. No disrespect intended.


  • #40
    kirving
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,345 ✭✭✭kirving


    AmboMan wrote: »
    I'm sorry you find my opinion distasteful but it doesn't change the fact that four CG staff are now dead because of a relatively minor injury.
    People make incorrect decisions all the time and I'm sure medico in Cork and the ICG are no exception.

    You're missing the basics of Cause and Effect here. The helicopter did not crash "because" it was tasked for what turned out to be minor injury in the grand scale of things, and adding the word "fact" doesn't make it any more true.

    Despite the injury being less serious than first reported, that still doesn't mean that it an incorrect decision as you say. By their very nature, Training exercises can and will carry relatively more risk than what was thought to be a routine mission last Tuesday morning. Similarly, they Coast Guard cannot operate for life or death only cases, since this isn't a line that can be easily drawn.

    Something clearly went catastrophically wrong, but that is entirely separate to the patient's injuries.


  • #41
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    Kevin Irving wrote: »
    You're missing the basics of Cause and Effect here. The helicopter did not crash "because" it was tasked for what turned out to be minor injury in the grand scale of things, and adding the word "fact" doesn't make it any more true.

    Despite the injury being less serious than first reported, that still doesn't mean that it an incorrect decision as you say. By their very nature, Training exercises can and will carry relatively more risk than what was thought to be a routine mission last Tuesday morning. Similarly, they Coast Guard cannot operate for life or death only cases, since this isn't a line that can be easily drawn.

    Something clearly went catastrophically wrong, but that is entirely separate to the patient's injuries.

    There is always a risk of something going catastrophically wrong.

    You speak about a line being drawn as to what should be responded to and what shouldn't.

    What is that line?

    What is the protocol?

    Does someone make contact, report an incident and automatically receive 2 helicopters to assist?

    There is talk (the Journal/Irish Independent, how accurate I don't know) of possible misunderstandings between boat and shore, whether a hand had been initially amputated, and talk of callers sometimes possibly not having the best command of English speaking to call takers not having the best command of English, and of course, the incident had been reduced to a cut thumb.

    If this is the case, does it matter? Surely it does.

    My initial thoughts on hearing there had been an accident was that I had hoped they were not responding to some time wasting hill walker who should know better out on their own in fog, something that rescue teams seem to coming across more and more often.

    Why this all matters is because if you're not drawing solid lines and protocol between what's going to receive full scale assistance and what's not, we might as well just have a push button system to request help and expect it to appear at all times.

    Is that sustainable, and worth the risks?


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  • #42
    Turner
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,933 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    Thread closed pending review, based on the amount of reported posts.


    There is already a full discussion on this topic over in the aviation forum, see here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057717298

    With an extra mod drafted in just to keep an eye on it.

    I think its best if the discussion continues in the aviation forum, as there are already 74 pages of good (and some not so good) posts.

    Please see the mod instruction in post 1 before replying/posting.

    Turner.

    Thread now closed in the ES forums.


This discussion has been closed.
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