Rescue 116 Crash at Blackrock, Co Mayo(Mod note in post 1)

C182 · 19-03-2017 11:14PM

did this guy really needed to be rescued ?? why couldn't the fisher boat sail back in instead? if i was him i would be feeling very guilty

Negative_G · 19-03-2017 11:15PM

siobhan08 wrote: »

A councilors is calling for the flags on government buildings to be lowered to half-mast in tribute to the crew.

Agree 100% with the sentiments.

The flag at Casement Aerodrome was at half mast when I passed during the week.

Welruc · 19-03-2017 11:15PM

He had a hand injury.

Lost the tip of a finger.

FixdePitchmark · 19-03-2017 11:16PM

I guess it will all come out in investigation.

But - as an outsider to aviation - totally perplexing that a helicopter and crew can go down without an automatic location transmission.

Gaoth Laidir · 19-03-2017 11:16PM

martinsvi wrote: »

the hook they did around the lighthouse looks like a standard cloud-break manouvre - you basically follow the GPS to guide you some 5-10NM out in the sea and break the cloud where there's very little risk of encountering terrain .. or sea-birds. Or people with funny devices.. Typically there's also a lot less chance of seeing fog or very low cloud out in the ocean than it would be close to the shores due to temperature difference.

We can gather so far from the AIS outputs -- not that we can fully trust them--, but it looks like they were happy with what they were seeing and they where plowing away in speed.. what happened next is a mystery, and that's where I refuse to entertain this conversation any further. I think, the very little things that we have to go by - the level of experience the crew had, the gizmos, the familiarity of the terrain, the SOPs and so on, make CFIT a very unlikely scenario.. not entirely impossible, but definitely of all the possible speculations it is the least advantaged..

So you mean making a descent on the outward leg and then coasting back in at low level? Is flying 10 NM out to sea standard enough? It just seems to be a lot given that they would be flying with something more advanced that my "cute little Sky Demon app".

jimbis · 19-03-2017 11:16PM

He was also seen walking from the helicopter.

Regardless of whether it was life or death situation it wouldn't matter to the crew, they would have went either way.
I really feel for the poor man that was rescued though. I'm sure there is plenty of 'what if's' floating around his head, but it could've been any one of us they were out to rescue that night.

FixdePitchmark · 19-03-2017 11:17PM

deuceswild wrote: »

He had a hand injury.

Lost the tip of a finger.

you can't be sending out two helicopters for that.

On board medical attention - and come into shore if needed ?

PukkaStukka · 19-03-2017 11:18PM

C182 wrote: »

did this guy really needed to be rescued ?? why couldn't the fisher boat sail back in instead? if i was him i would be feeling very guilty

Do you think they would scramble two choppers collectively flying the best part of 500 miles for something trivial? Your suggestion that he should feel guilty is absurd.

Ludo · 19-03-2017 11:19PM

deuceswild wrote: »

He had a hand injury.

Lost the tip of a finger.

If that is true then it seems crazy. Not the fishermans fault though or the trawler itself. Surely there is a decision made as to whether a rescue is necessary or not. I find it hard to believe 2 rescue helicopters would be dispatched for such a minor injury but then again what do I know.

PukkaStukka · 19-03-2017 11:20PM

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

you can't be sending out two helicopters for that.

On board medical attention - and come into shore if needed ?

Why not? The rescue services are the experts here and they decided to respond as they did.

gctest50 · 19-03-2017 11:23PM

martinsvi wrote: »

........ his cute little sky demon app

............ therefore implying ........

cute little - therefore implying ?

David Harrison, Director of Safety, NATS, - I would encourage all pilots to make use of this tool to ensure they are flying safely,

The iPad app gives more pilots access to this functionality, which we hope will continue the reduction in risk from airspace infringements,” said Kathy McColl, Safety & Strategic Research Engineer, NATS.

Water John · 19-03-2017 11:23PM

Are we back to this nonsense discussed days ago about the level of injury to the fisherman? Totally applying hindsight.
It doesn't work that way.

I'm now only interested in the search and its progress.

There is another thread opened by Fancy Pants which has a broader remit.
The Mods have specified the role of this one.

faoiarvok · 19-03-2017 11:25PM

What may appear trivial at first can rapidly compound, which is the last thing you want hundreds of miles from a hospital.

The 116 crew would not have squabbled over whether the injury was bad enough to warrant a rescue. This is not speculation, as we know they took the job.

FixdePitchmark · 19-03-2017 11:25PM

PukkaStukka wrote: »

Why not? The rescue services are the experts here and they decided to respond as they did.

Because it is not reasonably practicable. There is an obligation on the trawler to provide safety and welfare for people on board.

2 helicopters for a hand injury - rather than the trawler come into port. Or return to port with a smaller vessel.

It would be reasonable if the person was at risk of imminent death.

FixdePitchmark · 19-03-2017 11:30PM

Water John wrote: »

Are we back to this nonsense discussed days ago about the level of injury to the fisherman? Totally applying hindsight.
It doesn't work that way.

I'm now only interested in the search and its progress.

There is another thread opened by Fancy Pants which has a broader remit.
The Mods have specified the role of this one.

It will have to be considered in aftermath.

Reati · 19-03-2017 11:31PM

PukkaStukka wrote: »

[/B]
Do you think they would scramble two choppers collectively flying the best part of 500 miles for something trivial? Your suggestion that he should feel guilty is absurd.

They scramble a heli based on what I imagine was a distress call for the injured passenger of the trawler. They don't get to make a "is it worth going out for this" call I'd imagine.

They only sent a second heli in for top cover. If the boat was closer that comms would have been kept, R116 would not have gone out to keep comms.

Your point is right though, the person who needed help shouldn't feel guilty. The ICG do this so regularly I think that's why it's hit home so hard for many people. Those who might rely on them never want to think the ICG Helis could be vulnerable or could have an accident.

cosanostra · 19-03-2017 11:32PM

The lack of Air Corp availability to provide top cover did not cause the loss of this helicopter, R116 was on a tasking that was well within its remit, cutbacks to Air Corp funding etc is an important issue that should be dealt with but it has nothing to do with this.

Whether or not the Person who was airlifted was badly enough injured or not has nothing to do with the loss of this helicopter, the call was made to the coastguard and they were fully aware of the injury sustained and authorised a medevac.

PukkaStukka · 19-03-2017 11:34PM

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Because it is not reasonably practicable. There is an obligation on the trawler to provide safety and welfare for people on board.

2 helicopters for a hand injury - rather than the trawler come into port. Or return to port with a smaller vessel.

It would be reasonable if the person was at risk of imminent death.

It was most certainly reasonably practicable because two choppers were dispatched on that call. Your making assumptions about a level of injury which the responders involved knew, and reacted with the resources they did.

I had a finger tip severed when I was 17 in a workplace accident. Because I was promptly treated, it was reattached and there was no infection. The same promptness could benefit the injury party on that trawler and prevent loss of the injured limb / digit.

If we apply your logic to what happened to me, I should've walked to the hospital and brought my own bandages, no?

I'll restate what I said earlier, they rescuers involved here UNDOUBTEDLY reacted as they did based on all the information available them, and deployed the resources they did based in that. They are the experts here, not us.

Ludo · 19-03-2017 11:34PM

Water John wrote: »

Are we back to this nonsense discussed days ago about the level of injury to the fisherman? Totally applying hindsight.
It doesn't work that way.

I'm now only interested in the search and its progress.

There is another thread opened by Fancy Pants which has a broader remit.
The Mods have specified the role of this one.

Sorry, but nothing said has broken the rules. This over-policing is getting mad now. Someone asked a question and it was answered. It is a valid question to ask and will probably get a good answer such as the one above about how complications arise etc etc. Thats kind of how discussion works.

Oscar Bravo · 19-03-2017 11:35PM

QUOTE=FixdePitchmark;102965666]Because it is not reasonably practicable. There is an obligation on the trawler to provide safety and welfare for people on board.

2 helicopters for a hand injury - rather than the trawler come into port. Or return to port with a smaller vessel.

It would be reasonable if the person was at risk of imminent death.[/QUOTE]

ya havnt a clue how the coastguard works have ya? not one idea. theres over 250 people viewing this forum at the moment and your on here spouting this nonsense. id say if you were miles out in the Atlantic with the top of your finger severed you'd be dam glad to see them and they would be more than willing to help you.

Water John · 19-03-2017 11:36PM

It was asked days ago. Read the thread.
On a loop here because of little new information.

martinsvi · 19-03-2017 11:39PM

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

So you mean making a descent on the outward leg and then coasting back in at low level? Is flying 10 NM out to sea standard enough? It just seems to be a lot given that they would be flying with something more advanced that my "cute little Sky Demon app".

don't quote me on the exact numbers, they would be type dependant, it's just something that's being done in GA and originates from the "old days". I don't mean to imply that this is what they did -all Im saying - this is what it looks like to me

And don't take my sky demon app remark personally.. There were always procedures before the technology and there are countless of examples where manouvres are still being conducted in an old way despite technology providing a much better guidance. One of the main reasons for that typically being - giving crew an opportunity to fully establish and stabilize the approach and human brain being somewhat slower than computers

martinsvi · 19-03-2017 11:47PM

gctest50 wrote: »

cute little - therefore implying ?

David Harrison, Director of Safety, NATS, - I would encourage all pilots to make use of this tool to ensure they are flying safely,

The iPad app gives more pilots access to this functionality, which we hope will continue the reduction in risk from airspace infringements,” said Kathy McColl, Safety & Strategic Research Engineer, NATS.

I am a subscriber of Sky demon myself and use it nearly every flight I do. I am a big fan of the app, but please, would you just read the god damn topic? we are talking about SAR helicopters, the big guns, the Honeywell radars and infrared technology.. they literally make our sky demon setup on our uncertified Chinese toys look "cute" to say the least!

Welruc · 19-03-2017 11:52PM

Forecast looking good for the next few days

Oscar Bravo · 19-03-2017 11:57PM

Living in Castlebar , the Coastguard helicopter and indeed the Air Corps are regular visitors to the hospital here in town, the hospital is in the center of town so people always look up when a chopper arrives.
Today i visited Blacksod ,the weather was good, upon arrival the Granuaile was in position and so was the LÉ Eithne. Rescue 118 arrived in the afternoon and scanned the coastline.
Theres a road near the pier where it climbs a hill, you can drive up to a car park which overlooks the sea. a sadness hits you when you see blackrock, it stands out so clearly .locals were very nice to. the knowledge they have of the coastline is amazing, really interesting to listen to and they really do depend on the coastguard so much and have so much respect for them. its really is a massive loss. came on here this evening and some comments would annoy ya but i suppose its just to overlook them . anyway i hope they find the crew really soon. its going to be a week before we know it

delly · 20-03-2017 12:02AM

The level of injury has no real merit for discussion imho. It's the same as an ambulance driver putting his live at risk on a blue light run for a minor injury, except of course the scale of risk and costs are higher. The ethos of an emergency service is to react first, then debrief.

/EDIT Just to add, since this news broke, there has not been long that passes until the sadness of the situation returns when you think of how tragic it really is. I have tonnes of S61 pictures taken over the years, not as much of the S92. My ears would always prick up if I heard the familiar rotor beat as R116 used to pass over my home, as I'd try and scramble to get the zoom lense on in time. I'd always wish them well as they passed over in the hope that whomever they were on the way to would be okay. I would rarely worry about their safety unless it was a particularly bad day. For years now I have my 9 year old convinced she'll be a SAR heli pilot for the Coast Guard, as I would fill her in on the work they do and how important it was. Genuinely if you'd ask her what she wanted to be, that was her first response. No harm in dreaming big, and with people like Captain Dara Fitzpatrick around, it was more than a reality.

RIP

Gaoth Laidir · 20-03-2017 12:04AM

martinsvi wrote: »

don't quote me on the exact numbers, they would be type dependant, it's just something that's being done in GA and originates from the "old days". I don't mean to imply that this is what they did -all Im saying - this is what it looks like to me

And don't take my sky demon app remark personally.. There were always procedures before the technology and there are countless of examples where manouvres are still being conducted in an old way despite technology providing a much better guidance. One of the main reasons for that typically being - giving crew an opportunity to fully establish and stabilize the approach and human brain being somewhat slower than computers

The accident report will be one interesting read.

Jonathan · 20-03-2017 12:08AM

https://twitter.com/patmcgrath/status/843592463348617216

ted1 · 20-03-2017 12:14AM

deuceswild wrote: »

Forecast looking good for the next few days

Really hope they can recover the bodies ASAP, the families must be going through hell.

gctest50 · 20-03-2017 12:20AM

martinsvi wrote: »

I am a subscriber of Sky demon myself and use it nearly every flight I do. I am a big fan of the app, but please, would you just read the god damn topic? we are talking about SAR helicopters, the big guns, the Honeywell radars and infrared technology.. they literally make our sky demon setup on our uncertified Chinese toys look "cute" to say the least!

martinsvi wrote: »

we are talking about SAR helicopters, the big guns, the ..

All fur coat and no knickers it seems,

For example, whichever c*** specd 3 bolts on the oil filter bowl of the main gearbox should be shot

( the new generation gearbox has 6, other Sik. models have 6 - more bolts aren't always the answer - incredibly complex vibes n loads around )

Rescue 116 Crash at Blackrock, Co Mayo(Mod note in post 1)

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