Rescue 116 Crash at Blackrock, Co Mayo(Mod note in post 1)

Gaoth Laidir · 16-03-2017 11:11PM

Jurgen Whyte was on Primetime now. Confirmed that they found some debris that they can identify as coming from R116 but would not be drawn on possible reasons for its presence there.

Bazzy · 16-03-2017 11:11PM

Reati wrote: »

Oh sorry, didn't release I'm not part of the industry club. Must send my license back to the IAA so. All that money on training and testing for nothing :rolleyes:

Anyway, back down here off the high horse. I never said they couldn't make a mistake. I said it's highly unlikely and it's more likely the craft failed. Is it possible there was a pilot error due to a system failure? Of course. Is it possible they crashed due to pilot error? Of course but it's still unlikely.

Just in case you didn't know, I'm not on the AAIU so I am free to have a public opinion based on track record of the pilots experience and safety record with regard pilot error. The AAIU will be the ones who will figure it out, follow all possible leads, use the FDR and will publish a, no doubt, detailed report. My view nor the views of anyone on a forum isn't going to make a shred of difference to the AAIU investigation. I doubt they are loading up boards.ie and going, Aha! Reati says they couldn't have made a mistake, better rule that out so.

Anyway, If the crew fly into Blacksod by mistake, I'd be surprised. it would be an opportunity to learn why and how to prevent it in future.

I certainly won't find the joy some in here seem to have for the pilot error theory...

Yes but in times of unknown people tend to google and check stuff and if your loved one was missing and you we're reading some of the stuff here it would make things worse for you

When we have facts we can talk away

Reati · 16-03-2017 11:16PM

Bazzy wrote: »

Yes but in times of unknown people tend to google and check stuff and if your loved one was missing and you we're reading some of the stuff here it would make things worse for you

When we have facts we can talk away

Wait, you are telling me that a post where I said it's high unlikely the crew crashed into a lighthouse or cliff by mistake is somehow going to upset a family member but posts blaming speculating pilot error and asking questions like "Any update on if they hit the lighthouse?" is ok?

gctest50 · 16-03-2017 11:16PM

Once it loses drive to the tail rotor, there is nothing stopping it from yaw once the engines are making torque - prepare for ditching it

( the one in Canada hit the water at 20G )

s 92 plagued by gearbox problems, they were certed to run for the 30 mins without oil thing

Someone later discovered they couldn't

s 92 makers swerved that under the "unlikely to occur" clause in the certing and added a bypass valve in case the oil cooler failed

s 92 oil filter for same was held down by three titanium studs

other Sikorsky products, such as the CH-53E Sea Stallion utilizes six titanium studs to attach the oil filter bowl to the Main gearbox

These broke sometimes and it lost oil

These were then replaced by steel studs

New ones has six bolts, ain't going nowhere

Some ( Eurocopter) have ~ 2 gallons of glycol to spray to keep the gears cool if they lose oil - they reckon about 45 minutes before failure

Others will do the 30 mins

The mountings break off the s 92 gearbox - fails after a few hours if not noticed

Oil filter with broken stud :

cosanostra · 16-03-2017 11:19PM

I just caught a bit of Jurgen Whyte on PrimeTime did he say no significant impact marks were found on Blackrock but there was areas they couldn't get to and no marks were found on lighthouse?

CrowdedHouse · 16-03-2017 11:20PM

https://twitter.com/IrishRugby/status/842489183201583105

Oscar Bravo · 16-03-2017 11:21PM

cosanostra wrote: »

I just caught a bit of Jurgen Whyte on PrimeTime did he say no significant impact marks were found on Blackrock but there was areas they couldn't get to and no marks were found on lighthouse?

spot on

Means Of Escape · 16-03-2017 11:25PM

murphaph wrote: »

Of course the cause matters. Aviation actually learns from its mistakes through recognising them. Nobody is trying to lay the blame at anyone's feet however.

Greg Feith would agree I'm sure .

Steve · 16-03-2017 11:27PM

Folks, in the absence of a local mod, can we please keep the debate respectful and cordial and bicker free.

I can see the reported posts for comments on this thread.

I'm not a mod of this forum, just asking nicely and in the interest of boards and respecting the readers of this thread.

Gaoth Laidir · 16-03-2017 11:28PM

I find it hard to believe that anyone external would pay serious notice of what is being said in this thread. It's clearly all just opinions of a selection of people from all walks of life, some professional aviators, others not. Whatever is said here has absolutely zero effect on the official investigation, so people discussing possibilities is not something that should be stamped out. There is plenty of coverage in the media of the official information being put forward by the AAIU and others so this thread does not serve that purpose.

The opinions of those from the aviation industry are no more important than those from outside of it. Whatever is said will not bring back the crew. Nobody has been disrespectful of the crew. Quite the contrary. It's mindboggling the number of goodwill posts made on this thread. However, human error cannot be (yet) ruled out. Neither can anything else. That is where we stand. Until the black box is recovered, discussion will continue.

...And Justice · 16-03-2017 11:32PM

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that anyone external would pay serious notice of what is being said in this thread. It's clearly all just opinions of a selection of people from all walks of life, some professional aviators, others not. Whatever is said here has absolutely zero effect on the official investigation, so people discussing possibilities is not something that should be stamped out. There is plenty of coverage in the media of the official information being put forward by the AAIU and others so this thread does not serve that purpose.

The opinions of those from the aviation industry are no more important than those from outside of it. Whatever is said will not bring back the crew. Nobody has been disrespectful of the crew. Quite the contrary. It's mindboggling the number of goodwill posts made on this thread. However, human error cannot be (yet) ruled out. Neither can anything else. That is where we stand. Until the black box is recovered, discussion will continue.

The media can be tossers, they read forums like this and twist information to peddle bullshít for ratings. Just like the indo did with their wild alternative facts.

billie1b · 16-03-2017 11:33PM

Bazzy wrote: »

Yes but in times of unknown people tend to google and check stuff and if your loved one was missing and you we're reading some of the stuff here it would make things worse for you

When we have facts we can talk away

Having been in a 'time of unknown' with a subject close to this and my close family member being in critical in ICU for 6 weeks, I can say that reading a newspaper or touching my phone or even googling anything was the last thing on my or any member of my families priorities or mind, i'd say the same goes with most families in these hard times.
Boards, facebook, the Journal, google etc would be almost forgotten in these situations.

RIP to all crew on board Rescue 116, I propose the next based SAR helo out of Dublin have a callsign of 144 in memory of these brave souls.

bucketybuck · 16-03-2017 11:34PM

A lot of high horses in this thread to be honest.

A question for the uninformed, is it assumed that any wreckage on that island came from a crash, or is it possible that its simply wreckage that washed up on the rocks near the waterline?

Buffman · 16-03-2017 11:34PM

Reati wrote: »

They certainly, I'm my view, did not crash into blacksod due to human error.

Reati wrote: »

Anyway, If the crew fly into Blacksod by mistake, I'd be surprised. it would be an opportunity to learn why and how to prevent it in future.

Hi, I'd like to confirm with you that Blacksod lighthouse/helipad and Black Rock lighthouse/helipad are different locations.

Steve · 16-03-2017 11:35PM

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that anyone external would pay serious notice of what is being said in this thread. It's clearly all just opinions of a selection of people from all walks of life, some professional aviators, others not. Whatever is said here has absolutely zero effect on the official investigation, so people discussing possibilities is not something that should be stamped out. There is plenty of coverage in the media of the official information being put forward by the AAIU and others so this thread does not serve that purpose.

The opinions of those from the aviation industry are no more important than those from outside of it. Whatever is said will not bring back the crew. Nobody has been disrespectful of the crew. Quite the contrary. It's mindboggling the number of goodwill posts made on this thread. However, human error cannot be (yet) ruled out. Neither can anything else. That is where we stand. Until the black box is recovered, discussion will continue.

I'm on the same side.

Believe me though, journalists *are* reading this looking for snippets or *conspiracy theories* they can make money from.
Wouldn't be the first time they used boards as a source.

We're better than that.

Steve · 16-03-2017 11:36PM

Buffman wrote: »

Hi, I'd like to confirm with you that Blacksod lighthouse/helipad and Black Rock lighthouse/helipad are different locations.

Yes they are.

Storm 10 · 16-03-2017 11:36PM

Fair play to them

Reati · 16-03-2017 11:38PM

Buffman wrote: »

Hi, I'd like to confirm with you that Blacksod lighthouse/helipad and Black Rock lighthouse/helipad are different locations.

Yes, I can confirm that for you. Looks like I made human error! Small screen big fingers

eatmyshorts · 16-03-2017 11:41PM

Irish Steve wrote: »

R116 crew could indeed have made a mistake that ended with the event that is now being discussed,

You've changed your tune from yesterday.

Irish Steve wrote: »

so the suggestions that have been made about accidentally flying into an obstacle or the water while searching for their intended landing point needs to be put into context, and discounted.

Steve · 16-03-2017 11:43PM

Steve wrote: »

Yes they are.

This may help:

eatmyshorts · 16-03-2017 11:43PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

A question for the uninformed, is it assumed that any wreckage on that island came from a crash, or is it possible that its simply wreckage that washed up on the rocks near the waterline?

The wreckage, part of the tail, was found on the island in the area between the lighthouse and the adjoining building.
Well above the waterline, on top of the island.

Buffman · 16-03-2017 11:45PM

Reati wrote: »

Yes, I can confirm that for you. Looks like I made human error! Small screen big fingers

Ye, no worries, I was trying to phrase it without sounding sarcastic or condescending given the situation.

Irish Steve · 16-03-2017 11:46PM

eatmyshorts wrote: »

You've changed your tune from yesterday.

No, I have not changed my tune, I am still willing to say that it's unlikely that they made a mistake that resulted in CFIT, I will reluctantly accept that they may have made a mistake that resulted in the accident. We do not yet have clear proof that a mistake by the crew resulted in flight into Blackrock. There is a difference.

Reati · 16-03-2017 11:48PM

Buffman wrote: »

Ye, no worries, I was trying to phrase it without sounding sarcastic or condescending given the situation.

No problem I should have re-read the posts but boards.ie mobile site is not good. Glad you noted it so my posts won't be adding to the confusion. I'll edit them to be correct.

sat matt · 16-03-2017 11:50PM

A question here about ground-based tracking capabilities of SAR aircraft

How much information and at what frequency would the helis be sending data back to Malin Head, Shannon ATC or elsewhere? I know the public can view some info sent every few minutes via VHF/AIS (publicised through the likes of marinetraffic, flightradar, etc...) but would I be correct in assuming that the likes of a state of the art coast guard heli would be pumping much more detailed info back to HQ at near realtime?

eatmyshorts · 16-03-2017 11:55PM

Irish Steve wrote: »

No, I have not changed my tune, I am still willing to say that it's unlikely that they made a mistake that resulted in CFIT, I will reluctantly accept that they may have made a mistake that resulted in the accident. We do not yet have clear proof that a mistake by the crew resulted in flight into Blackrock. There is a difference.

Honestly I don't see the difference. Just seems like back pedalling on your part to me.

Reati · 16-03-2017 11:56PM

eatmyshorts wrote: »

The wreckage, part of the tail, was found on the island in the area between the lighthouse and the adjoining building.
Well above the waterline, on top of the island.

Picture of the island from RTE twitter I think

C7EoYIvW4AIVVad.jpg:large

Thargor · 16-03-2017 11:59PM

eatmyshorts wrote: »

The wreckage, part of the tail, was found on the island in the area between the lighthouse and the adjoining building.
Well above the waterline, on top of the island.

Thats it pretty much settled then, one of the most freak accidents you'll ever hear of if you know the area, nothing but empty space with a few sharp rocks poking up...

Oscar Bravo · 17-03-2017 12:02AM

that photo really does show how difficult its going to be to recover the wreckage , by Mayo standards that photo was taken on a good day weather wise and theres still waves bashing the rock. tomorrow is wrote off ,Saturday and Sunday only middling weather wise to. My god they ended up in a terrible place.

Atlantic Dawn · 17-03-2017 12:02AM

In the recovery process of the wreckage fishermen and civilians are bringing in parts of the wreckage to the pier where parts and I suppose potential clues to the cause could easily be lost in the handover process, should the navy not be only collecting and storing all the wreckage at sea and then bringing it ashore? I fully appreciate all the hard work and help that everyone in the area has given to the recovery process and I am proud of the response of the people of our country to aid the recovery.

Rescue 116 Crash at Blackrock, Co Mayo(Mod note in post 1)

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