Rescue 116 Crash at Blackrock, Co Mayo(Mod note in post 1)

Mebuntu · 16-03-2017 12:50AM

elastico wrote: »

Ryanair landed at the wrong airport in Derry a few years ago.

Ryanair did NOT land at the wrong airport. It was another aircraft (an Eirjet A320) operating on their behalf.

faoiarvok · 16-03-2017 01:00AM

TallGlass wrote: »

Is the report available to the public to read or any sites to keep an eye on for reports about the cause?

You can sign up for the AAIU mailing list and will receive all reports as they are published. However it may take up to a year for the full report to be published. This unit are rightly extremely methodical about examining all possible evidence and soliciting outside scrutiny before publishing.

kona · 16-03-2017 01:05AM

Steve wrote: »

Green Peter wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance but what are the chances that it was struck by lightening ?

Aircraft are struck by lightning all the time, there is no path to ground so it doesn't really affect them. In general the passengers don't even notice.

You may not notice but it certainly affects them.

sdanseo · 16-03-2017 01:33AM

elastico wrote: »

People are perfectly entitled to discuss an event that's front page news in the mainstream media.

Nobody on here is trying to stop the investigators doing their jobs.

The_Wanderer wrote: »

Cloudbase of 300ft. Black Rock 300ft. I don't like where this is heading.

Did the craft break cloudbase just before the Island and it was too late to take evasive action?

No point in my lying, I made the same connection in my head, but let's not jump to that conclusion just yet. As others have said, there are multiple warning systems in place to prevent this from happening. A similar failure to the incident in Scotland might have just as easily happened on landing.

Anything which indicates human error at this stage is circumstantial and unproven and as yet more people have said above me, no matter how educated or insightful the thought process behind our comments, people who don't understand will just see the word error.

It pains me to be making any further reference but I feel the need to make the point that no matter what the cause, the crew were doing one of Ireland's most dangerous jobs and putting themselves on the line in often treacherous conditions, day in and day out, to save others in danger without a moment's thought for themselves. They were professional heroes, and absolutely no AAIU report or anything else will make me think otherwise.

16-03-2017 01:38AM

MadYaker wrote: »

I read in the Irish times that the crew didn't activate their personal locator beacons. Would that be unusual for situations like this?

Would they not activate automatically upon contact with water?

jacksie66 · 16-03-2017 01:40AM

This post has been deleted.

JCX BXC · 16-03-2017 01:41AM

People will always speculate, I personally don't see a problem with it as long as it's tasteful. Can't be any worse than the current tabloids.

I lost a good friend not too long back in a car accident, the tabloid drivel that was posted was quite upsetting to everyone mourning so I do feel for the family and friends in this case having the event so publicised and every detail scrutinised in the future.

I'm glad of all the positive messages of support that are in the media currently though, if not much conciliation, at least the family will know the legacy of Dara and she is respected in the eyes of everyone, as well as the other three brave men on board the aircraft. Hopefully their remains will be retrieved so that they can have their peace.

It's awful when these incidents occur, but gladly they are rare and I have full faith in the AAIU and all associated bodies in ensuring investigations are comprehensively carried out.

RIP to the 4 brave souls on board R116, may they know their value to the Irish people.

siobhan08 · 16-03-2017 01:42AM

sdanseo wrote: »

No point in my lying, I made the same connection in my head, but let's not jump to that conclusion just yet. As others have said, there are multiple warning systems in place to prevent this from happening. A similar failure to the incident in Scotland might have just as easily happened on landing.

Anything which indicates human error at this stage is circumstantial and unproven and as yet more people have said above me, no matter how educated or insightful the thought process behind our comments, people who don't understand will just see the word error.

It pains me to be making any further reference but I feel the need to make the point that no matter what the cause, the crew were doing one of Ireland's most dangerous jobs and putting themselves on the line in often treacherous conditions, day in and day out, to save others in danger without a moment's thought for themselves. They were professional heroes, and absolutely no AAIU report or anything else will make me think otherwise.

Very good post.
Whole heartily agree with the bit in bold

Irish Steve · 16-03-2017 01:43AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Would they not activate automatically upon contact with water?

Not a good idea when the winchman is in water on a regular basis. It's my understanding that the crew worn devices have to be activated by the wearer.

faoiarvok · 16-03-2017 01:43AM

kona wrote: »

You may not notice but it certainly affects them.

Extremely rarely. Aircraft are designed as Faraday cages, partly by design and partly by coincidence of other requirements.

Furthermore, lighting generally only occurs in convective clouds, not the stratiform clouds typical of the warm front moving over the area at the time of the incident.

Atlantic Dawn · 16-03-2017 01:44AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Would they not activate automatically upon contact with water?

I think they need full immersion in the water for a few seconds before they become active, if the helicopter sank and the crew were still belted in it's likely no signal would get out.

16-03-2017 01:49AM

Irish Steve wrote: »

Not a good idea when the winchman is in water on a regular basis. It's my understanding that the crew worn devices have to be activated by the wearer.

Just read article in the examiner which said they should have been activated upon impact with water. Strange for none of them to activate

scudzilla · 16-03-2017 01:54AM

Flying at full speed, how long would it have taken them to get from DUB to the crash site??

sdanseo · 16-03-2017 02:04AM

I had a line that I never included in that because I wasn't sure how to phrase it but it was along the lines - I have nothing against fact-based debate and that includes some speculation. It would be contrary to the purpose of the forum not to discuss all the possibilities but just felt we need to stay sensitive and not call anyone out for mistakes they may not have made but rather for their astounding successes instead.

Bsal · 16-03-2017 04:24AM

scudzilla wrote: »

Flying at full speed, how long would it have taken them to get from DUB to the crash site??

About 60min

kona · 16-03-2017 04:46AM

faoiarvok wrote: »

kona wrote: »

You may not notice but it certainly affects them.

Extremely rarely. Aircraft are designed as Faraday cages, partly by design and partly by coincidence of other requirements.

Furthermore, lighting generally only occurs in convective clouds, not the stratiform clouds typical of the warm front moving over the area at the time of the incident.

OK Ted.

Gaoth Laidir · 16-03-2017 07:51AM

There was zero chance of lightning at the time of the incident so that theory can be grounded right now [/pun]. Satellite and model data show low stratified cloudiness and the absence of parameters required for thunderstorms.

hawkelady · 16-03-2017 07:55AM

I read a few pages back that a poster said that a person he knew ,who was helping in the search ,saw parts of the helicopter on the rock where the lighthouse is.

In today's indo its quoted as saying they have ruled out the craft hitting the rock as no parts were on the rock and its more than likely a major electrical failure with the craft !!!

jones 19 · 16-03-2017 08:19AM

I've heard nothing about debris on the island, only on this site, who can prove this? Also you would imagine the pilots emergency beacons are automatic as there is not a threat of accidental triggering due to water like a winchman,
I find it disturbing that not one emergency beacon out of a possible 18 on board the chopper did not deploy, this could have been the difference between life and death of Captain Fitzpatrick.
I'd like to add that these coast guard choppers really are one of Ireland greatest success stories and the loss of this crew is catastrophic. Not just for seafarers but everyone, road traffic accidents to sick babies and anything in between. Great Great people.

irishgeo · 16-03-2017 08:19AM

hawkelady wrote: »

I read a few pages back that a poster said that a person he knew ,who was helping in the search ,saw parts of the helicopter on the rock where the lighthouse is.

In today's indo its quoted as saying they have ruled out the craft hitting the rock as no parts were on the rock and its more than likely a major electrical failure with the craft !!!

It says no wreckage was found near the lighthouse. It does say none was found on the rock.

Call me Al · 16-03-2017 08:22AM

http://www.mayonews.ie/news/29679-black-box-signal-detected-close-to-blackrock-lighthouse
It's in print here.
It doesn't give details of what parts are on the island though. Rather it's described as debris.

Means Of Escape · 16-03-2017 08:28AM

Spatial disorientation a possibility

durandal01 · 16-03-2017 08:43AM

The AAIB obviously will take precedence in the investigation of this incident because it occurred to an Irish reg'd aircraft in Irish sovereign territory.
Seeing as the aircraft was manufactured by a US company and operated by a Canadian company, what input or investigative powers will the US NTSB and Canada's TSB have?

cosanostra · 16-03-2017 08:49AM

Newstalk reporting initial request was made to air Corp to provide top cover however they refused request due to lack of experienced personnel and rescue 116 was dispatched

Henry Ford III · 16-03-2017 08:56AM

I'm not comfortable with some of the speculative posts on what could have brought down this helicopter. It could have been any of dozens of reasons and it adds nothing to just guess one of them.

Discodog · 16-03-2017 09:05AM

Irish Steve wrote: »

What has not been specifically discussed in the thread is that because this is a search and rescue aircraft, it carries a significant instrument fit that enhances the normal fit that would be standard on a commercial helicopter, and even on a commercial helicopter, the instrument fit would be to a very high level, so the suggestions that have been made about accidentally flying into an obstacle or the water while searching for their intended landing point needs to be put into context, and discounted.

I don't think that this can be discounted. No matter how much technical equipment is fitted to aircraft you can still have accidents, by a technical failure, human failure or a combination of both. The whole basis of investigation is that nothing is ruled out.

TallGlass · 16-03-2017 09:07AM

jacksie66 wrote: »

I was in a motor factors today and there was an old lad in front of me talking to the guy behind the counter. Apparently he heard a rumor that the helicopter was shot down by the Russians..
I honestly couldn't believe what I heard..

While I don't disagree it's a bit of mad tale! But sometimes the truth is even stranger than fiction.

Calina · 16-03-2017 09:09AM

I am concerned that the Air Corps is short personnel for flying and air traffic control out of hours. Even outside the context of what happened to R116 this needs to be queried and addressed.

cosanostra · 16-03-2017 09:13AM

This video posted by the navy shows that the recovery process will be quite challenging https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1278630312219862&id=101764433239795

homerjay2005 · 16-03-2017 09:17AM

cosanostra wrote: »

Newstalk reporting initial request was made to air Corp to provide top cover however they refused request due to lack of experienced personnel and rescue 116 was dispatched

The chain of events leading to this crash is starting to grow. As I said earlier, there's likely to be 5 or 6 actual causes of this once the final report comes out.

Rescue 116 Crash at Blackrock, Co Mayo(Mod note in post 1)

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