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Rescue 116 Crash at Blackrock, Co Mayo(Mod note in post 1)

sparrowcar

Contact lost just before 0100 off the west coast of Achill island on a rescue mission.
Search in progress including all available ships and Rescue 115.

Hopefully a positive outcome to this.

Please keep replies civil, and respectful of the crew and their families.

Please do not speculate as to any cause unless you have a factual basis to do so (and can back it up with information released to the public).

There will be zero tolerance for troublemakers or those that choose to ignore these guidelines.

There are other moderator messages in the thread, as a result of issues that have arisen, and we will be less forgiving going forward, due to the ongoing sensitivity of this incident

As per normal boards guidance, any comments on moderation are off topic and should be addressed directly to mods or cmods by PM. Any part of posts which are off topic in such a manner may be edited or removed, with possible sanction. Non news posts will be moved to the parallel R116 Non news and discussion thread

Should any new reports, updates or news stories come out, posts which can be boiled down to "I Told You So" or other triumphalism about previous commentary will result in significant punishment.

Any threadbans will carry over to any replacement thread should this approach 10,000 posts

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Mebuntu

elastico wrote: »

Ryanair landed at the wrong airport in Derry a few years ago.

Ryanair did NOT land at the wrong airport. It was another aircraft (an Eirjet A320) operating on their behalf.

faoiarvok

TallGlass wrote: »

Is the report available to the public to read or any sites to keep an eye on for reports about the cause?

You can sign up for the AAIU mailing list and will receive all reports as they are published. However it may take up to a year for the full report to be published. This unit are rightly extremely methodical about examining all possible evidence and soliciting outside scrutiny before publishing.

kona

Steve wrote: »

Green Peter wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance but what are the chances that it was struck by lightening ?

Aircraft are struck by lightning all the time, there is no path to ground so it doesn't really affect them. In general the passengers don't even notice.

You may not notice but it certainly affects them.

sdanseo

elastico wrote: »

People are perfectly entitled to discuss an event that's front page news in the mainstream media.

Nobody on here is trying to stop the investigators doing their jobs.

The_Wanderer wrote: »

Cloudbase of 300ft. Black Rock 300ft. I don't like where this is heading.

Did the craft break cloudbase just before the Island and it was too late to take evasive action?

No point in my lying, I made the same connection in my head, but let's not jump to that conclusion just yet. As others have said, there are multiple warning systems in place to prevent this from happening. A similar failure to the incident in Scotland might have just as easily happened on landing.

Anything which indicates human error at this stage is circumstantial and unproven and as yet more people have said above me, no matter how educated or insightful the thought process behind our comments, people who don't understand will just see the word error.

It pains me to be making any further reference but I feel the need to make the point that no matter what the cause, the crew were doing one of Ireland's most dangerous jobs and putting themselves on the line in often treacherous conditions, day in and day out, to save others in danger without a moment's thought for themselves. They were professional heroes, and absolutely no AAIU report or anything else will make me think otherwise.

[Deleted User]

MadYaker wrote: »

I read in the Irish times that the crew didn't activate their personal locator beacons. Would that be unusual for situations like this?

Would they not activate automatically upon contact with water?

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

JCX BXC

People will always speculate, I personally don't see a problem with it as long as it's tasteful. Can't be any worse than the current tabloids.

I lost a good friend not too long back in a car accident, the tabloid drivel that was posted was quite upsetting to everyone mourning so I do feel for the family and friends in this case having the event so publicised and every detail scrutinised in the future.

I'm glad of all the positive messages of support that are in the media currently though, if not much conciliation, at least the family will know the legacy of Dara and she is respected in the eyes of everyone, as well as the other three brave men on board the aircraft. Hopefully their remains will be retrieved so that they can have their peace.

It's awful when these incidents occur, but gladly they are rare and I have full faith in the AAIU and all associated bodies in ensuring investigations are comprehensively carried out.

RIP to the 4 brave souls on board R116, may they know their value to the Irish people.

siobhan08

sdanseo wrote: »

No point in my lying, I made the same connection in my head, but let's not jump to that conclusion just yet. As others have said, there are multiple warning systems in place to prevent this from happening. A similar failure to the incident in Scotland might have just as easily happened on landing.

Anything which indicates human error at this stage is circumstantial and unproven and as yet more people have said above me, no matter how educated or insightful the thought process behind our comments, people who don't understand will just see the word error.

It pains me to be making any further reference but I feel the need to make the point that no matter what the cause, the crew were doing one of Ireland's most dangerous jobs and putting themselves on the line in often treacherous conditions, day in and day out, to save others in danger without a moment's thought for themselves. They were professional heroes, and absolutely no AAIU report or anything else will make me think otherwise.

Very good post.
Whole heartily agree with the bit in bold

Irish Steve

Deleted User wrote: »

Would they not activate automatically upon contact with water?

Not a good idea when the winchman is in water on a regular basis. It's my understanding that the crew worn devices have to be activated by the wearer.

faoiarvok

kona wrote: »

You may not notice but it certainly affects them.

Extremely rarely. Aircraft are designed as Faraday cages, partly by design and partly by coincidence of other requirements.

Furthermore, lighting generally only occurs in convective clouds, not the stratiform clouds typical of the warm front moving over the area at the time of the incident.

Atlantic Dawn

Deleted User wrote: »

Would they not activate automatically upon contact with water?

I think they need full immersion in the water for a few seconds before they become active, if the helicopter sank and the crew were still belted in it's likely no signal would get out.

[Deleted User]

Irish Steve wrote: »

Not a good idea when the winchman is in water on a regular basis. It's my understanding that the crew worn devices have to be activated by the wearer.

Just read article in the examiner which said they should have been activated upon impact with water. Strange for none of them to activate

scudzilla

Flying at full speed, how long would it have taken them to get from DUB to the crash site??

sdanseo

I had a line that I never included in that because I wasn't sure how to phrase it but it was along the lines - I have nothing against fact-based debate and that includes some speculation. It would be contrary to the purpose of the forum not to discuss all the possibilities but just felt we need to stay sensitive and not call anyone out for mistakes they may not have made but rather for their astounding successes instead.

Bsal

scudzilla wrote: »

Flying at full speed, how long would it have taken them to get from DUB to the crash site??

About 60min

kona

faoiarvok wrote: »

kona wrote: »

You may not notice but it certainly affects them.

Extremely rarely. Aircraft are designed as Faraday cages, partly by design and partly by coincidence of other requirements.

Furthermore, lighting generally only occurs in convective clouds, not the stratiform clouds typical of the warm front moving over the area at the time of the incident.

OK Ted.

Gaoth Laidir

There was zero chance of lightning at the time of the incident so that theory can be grounded right now [/pun]. Satellite and model data show low stratified cloudiness and the absence of parameters required for thunderstorms.

hawkelady

I read a few pages back that a poster said that a person he knew ,who was helping in the search ,saw parts of the helicopter on the rock where the lighthouse is.

In today's indo its quoted as saying they have ruled out the craft hitting the rock as no parts were on the rock and its more than likely a major electrical failure with the craft !!!

jones 19

I've heard nothing about debris on the island, only on this site, who can prove this? Also you would imagine the pilots emergency beacons are automatic as there is not a threat of accidental triggering due to water like a winchman,
I find it disturbing that not one emergency beacon out of a possible 18 on board the chopper did not deploy, this could have been the difference between life and death of Captain Fitzpatrick.
I'd like to add that these coast guard choppers really are one of Ireland greatest success stories and the loss of this crew is catastrophic. Not just for seafarers but everyone, road traffic accidents to sick babies and anything in between. Great Great people.

irishgeo

hawkelady wrote: »

I read a few pages back that a poster said that a person he knew ,who was helping in the search ,saw parts of the helicopter on the rock where the lighthouse is.

In today's indo its quoted as saying they have ruled out the craft hitting the rock as no parts were on the rock and its more than likely a major electrical failure with the craft !!!

It says no wreckage was found near the lighthouse. It does say none was found on the rock.

Call me Al

http://www.mayonews.ie/news/29679-black-box-signal-detected-close-to-blackrock-lighthouse
It's in print here.
It doesn't give details of what parts are on the island though. Rather it's described as debris.

Means Of Escape

Spatial disorientation a possibility

durandal01

The AAIB obviously will take precedence in the investigation of this incident because it occurred to an Irish reg'd aircraft in Irish sovereign territory.
Seeing as the aircraft was manufactured by a US company and operated by a Canadian company, what input or investigative powers will the US NTSB and Canada's TSB have?

cosanostra

Newstalk reporting initial request was made to air Corp to provide top cover however they refused request due to lack of experienced personnel and rescue 116 was dispatched

Henry Ford III

I'm not comfortable with some of the speculative posts on what could have brought down this helicopter. It could have been any of dozens of reasons and it adds nothing to just guess one of them.

Discodog

Irish Steve wrote: »

What has not been specifically discussed in the thread is that because this is a search and rescue aircraft, it carries a significant instrument fit that enhances the normal fit that would be standard on a commercial helicopter, and even on a commercial helicopter, the instrument fit would be to a very high level, so the suggestions that have been made about accidentally flying into an obstacle or the water while searching for their intended landing point needs to be put into context, and discounted.

I don't think that this can be discounted. No matter how much technical equipment is fitted to aircraft you can still have accidents, by a technical failure, human failure or a combination of both. The whole basis of investigation is that nothing is ruled out.

TallGlass

jacksie66 wrote: »

I was in a motor factors today and there was an old lad in front of me talking to the guy behind the counter. Apparently he heard a rumor that the helicopter was shot down by the Russians..
I honestly couldn't believe what I heard..

While I don't disagree it's a bit of mad tale! But sometimes the truth is even stranger than fiction.

Calina

I am concerned that the Air Corps is short personnel for flying and air traffic control out of hours. Even outside the context of what happened to R116 this needs to be queried and addressed.

cosanostra

This video posted by the navy shows that the recovery process will be quite challenging https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1278630312219862&id=101764433239795

homerjay2005

cosanostra wrote: »

Newstalk reporting initial request was made to air Corp to provide top cover however they refused request due to lack of experienced personnel and rescue 116 was dispatched

The chain of events leading to this crash is starting to grow. As I said earlier, there's likely to be 5 or 6 actual causes of this once the final report comes out.