Mens Rights Thread

utyh2ikcq9z76b · 08-03-2017 06:35PM

The Red Pill Movie documentary has been released for home viewing

http://theredpillmovie.com/

iptba · 11-03-2017 07:28PM

Irish women's advocates seem to get a lot of things trending on Twitter. The following is a snapshot from the last 4 (?) weeks or so:

#WomeninScienceDay

#CEDAWIRL

#womensinspire

#talkingequality

#womenintech

#womensinspire (again)

#womeninfilmire

#InternationalWomensDay
#daywithoutawoman
#IWD2017

#WomenonWalls

#WomenXBorders

goose2005 · 13-03-2017 08:56PM

JRant wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but do women not live considerably longer, have better employment prospects and out perform men in education. How exactly is that failing?

The general tendency women get more state services, public jobs and benefits. So any cut to them will impact women more. Of course, that poses the obvious question of why women get so much more from the state, despite their objectively higher standard of living...

JRant · 13-03-2017 11:21PM

goose2005 wrote: »

The general tendency women get more state services, public jobs and benefits. So any cut to them will impact women more. Of course, that poses the obvious question of why women get so much more from the state, despite their objectively higher standard of living...

I would say it is because advocacy groups have campaigned for decades to make sure women are well looked after by society. It's long past the time for men to do the same.

We can't wait for others to do the heavy lifting for us and feminism has absolutely no interest that kind of equality.

El_Duderino 09 · 14-03-2017 08:30AM

JRant wrote:

I would say it is because advocacy groups have campaigned for decades to make sure women are well looked after by society. It's long past the time for men to do the same.

No harm if the ones with greatest interest moved from whining in chat forums to being active and raising awareness and advocating action in areas where men are behind. Nothing wrong with whining or being active but one is more productive than the other

JRant wrote:

We can't wait for others to do the heavy lifting for us and feminism has absolutely no interest that kind of equality.

You mean share the heavy lifting? That's an interesting point. These threads pop up every once in a while 'holding doors for women' 'lifting things...' 'standing on the bus for women'. The striking thing about those threads is the men who resolutely refuse to entertain the idea of not stepping back and allowing women through the door before themselves. 'I was raised properly to offer my seat on the bs to elderly people and women'.

Some people have strange understandings and some of these points of equality, such as the ones mentioned above, are almost solely by men.

As it goes a pregnant woman opened a door for me in work yesterday. We weren't walking together or anything, she just got to the door first and pressed the button stood back and said 'after you'. I went ahead and thanked her in accordance with 21st century etiquette.

For some people the only thing worse than this type of thing not happening is this type of thing actually happening.

silverharp · 14-03-2017 09:09AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

No harm if the ones with greatest interest moved from whining in chat forums to being active and raising awareness and advocating action in areas where men are behind. Nothing wrong with whining or being active but one is more productive than the other

and yet when they do you blue haired friends try to close it down :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iARHCxAMAO0

El_Duderino 09 · 14-03-2017 09:15AM

silverharp wrote:

and yet when they do you blue haired friends try to close it down

My blue haired friends? l keep forgetting how some posters view the dynamics of the groups. ''We' are a diverse group with a broad range of opinions and experiences, but 'they' are all the same'. Said by every group about the 'others'. It's lazy thinking and you would do well not to fall for it.

Best stay safe and not try to raise awareness then, is that the thrust of what you're saying?

silverharp · 14-03-2017 09:32AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

My blue haired friends? l keep forgetting how some posters view the dynamics of the groups. ''We' are a diverse group with a broad range of opinions and experiences, but 'they' are all the same'. Said by every group about the 'others'. It's lazy thinking and you would do well not to fall for it.

Best stay safe and not try to raise awareness then, is that the thrust of what you're saying?

I dont see much "disavowing" going on so one can consider it tacit approval of that kind of behaviour. I remember a post on this forum where someone was trying to get a men's group started in Maynooth and was told No because there is a feminist society that deals with that. it isnt friendly out there

Being online is raising awareness, its the last place where ideas can be shared with relative freedom. in the way things go small groups of men meeting together probably isnt the future anyway.

El_Duderino 09 · 14-03-2017 09:50AM

silverharp wrote:

I dont see much "disavowing" going on so one can consider it tacit approval of that kind of behaviour.

I don't have to "disavow" them because I have nothing to do with them. I'm not asking you to disavow any analogous group because that's lazy thinking to assume we would support them by default. I doubt you're happy with this kind of lazy thinking, or maybe you are.

I suggested it would be more productive to be active rather than whinging in chat forums.

silverharp wrote:

Being online is raising awareness, its the last place where ideas can be shared with relative freedom. in the way things go small groups of men meeting together probably isnt the future anyway.

Online is one way of augmenting an awareness campaign. If it doesn't go beyond internet forums, then it could be best described as whinging. Mumsnet support group style rather than anything meaningful.

silverharp wrote:

it isnt friendly out there

lol. Maybe you need a space that's safe for your ideas.

silverharp · 14-03-2017 10:18AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I don't have to "disavow" them because I have nothing to do with them. I'm not asking you to disavow any analogous group because that's lazy thinking to assume we would support them by default. I doubt you're happy with this kind of lazy thinking, or maybe you are.

I suggested it would be more productive to be active rather than whinging in chat forums.

Online is one way of augmenting an awareness campaign. If it doesn't go beyond internet forums, then it could be best described as whinging. Mumsnet support group style rather than anything meaningful.

lol. Maybe you need a space that's safe for your ideas.

don't worry I wasn't looking for your personal disavowal , just a general observation about blue haired feminists , there is no free speech wing that I can see or calling out

I'd say awareness instead of whinging, men are stoical most of the time, just point out the land mines and we will walk around them.

erm no, safe space has come to mean not listening to opposing opinions , again men tend not to object to this, the battle of ideas is good. so don't get the "lol"

El_Duderino 09 · 14-03-2017 10:29AM

silverharp wrote:

don't worry I wasn't looking for your personal disavowal , just a general observation about blue haired feminists , there is no free speech wing that I can see or calling out

No idea why you're bringing it then

silverharp wrote:

I'd say awareness instead of whinging, men are stoical most of the time, just point out the land mines and we will walk around them.

Grand. Well you seem happy with how you're contributing to the men's side of the equality movement. I would have thought being physically active along with internet chats would be more productive than internet chats alone. I'll defer to you on this. You seem more involved than myself. Happy to hear it's going to plan for you.

silverharp · 14-03-2017 10:44AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

No idea why you're bringing it then

well you have to take a certain amount of ownership that you are involved in a man hating movement that doesn't appear to like groups of men getting together hence the irony of your post. one of the guys in the video I linked simply wanted to come to terms with why 2 of his male friends had committed suicide , the feminist women wanted to dictate how he should do this apparently he shouldn't make the decision himself

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Grand. Well you seem happy with how you're contributing to the men's side of the equality movement. I would have thought being physically active along with internet chats would be more productive than internet chats alone. I'll defer to you on this. You seem more involved than myself. Happy to hear it's going to plan for you.

each to their own, my main concern is my kids. I think my son is immune to feminism now, can you imagine the disappointment I'd have if he declared himself a feminist

there is hope for the next generation

LostinBlanch · 14-03-2017 12:29PM

silverharp wrote: »

well you have to take a certain amount of ownership that you are involved in a man hating movement that doesn't appear to like groups of men getting together hence the irony of your post.

This definitely rings true with me. There are definitely a section of feminists that are totally anti any groups of men getting together for fear that they would discuss anything verboten i.e. not approved by feminists. It's classic divide and conquer tactics.

silverharp wrote: »

one of the guys in the video I linked simply wanted to come to terms with why 2 of his male friends had committed suicide , the feminist women wanted to dictate how he should do this apparently he shouldn't make the decision himself.

This is the thing that gets me. If this was men trying to shut down or direct any womens conversation like this there would be war, and rightly so. The hypocrisy is galling. But then again there are other instances of feminists trying to "direct" mens conversation lest they actually be allowed to think for themselves and suggest courses of action that go against feminist orthodoxy on males i.e. that males are responsible for every bad thing in the world. I'm thinking in particular of feminist opposition to International Mens day for example.

red ears · 14-03-2017 01:12PM

silverharp wrote: »

and yet when they do you blue haired friends try to close it down :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iARHCxAMAO0

That's woman's version of football hooliganism, they have never had the platform to gather like that and vent before feminism, particularly the more radical feminism. Its really just yobbery.

JRant · 14-03-2017 04:20PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

No harm if the ones with greatest interest moved from whining in chat forums to being active and raising awareness and advocating action in areas where men are behind. Nothing wrong with whining or being active but one is more productive than the other

You mean share the heavy lifting? That's an interesting point. These threads pop up every once in a while 'holding doors for women' 'lifting things...' 'standing on the bus for women'. The striking thing about those threads is the men who resolutely refuse to entertain the idea of not stepping back and allowing women through the door before themselves. 'I was raised properly to offer my seat on the bs to elderly people and women'.

Some people have strange understandings and some of these points of equality, such as the ones mentioned above, are almost solely by men.

As it goes a pregnant woman opened a door for me in work yesterday. We weren't walking together or anything, she just got to the door first and pressed the button stood back and said 'after you'. I went ahead and thanked her in accordance with 21st century etiquette.

For some people the only thing worse than this type of thing not happening is this type of thing actually happening.

Not sure where you're heading to El Dude but that was not what I had in mind when posting.
I meant it figuratively rather than literally, ie femist groups will not campaign for mens rights or issues, instead men will have to organise and campaign themselves.

El_Duderino 09 · 14-03-2017 04:48PM

silverharp wrote:

well you have to take a certain amount of ownership that you are involved in a man hating movement...

I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you were unhappy with this lazy thinking when you expected me to disavow this group of which I'm not a part. Now you seem happy to go back to that unthinking premise, 'they're all the same'. Lazy.

silverharp wrote:

one of the guys in the video I linked simply wanted to come to terms with why 2 of his male friends had committed suicide , the feminist women wanted to dictate how he should do this apparently he shouldn't make the decision himself

So we're back to you thinking i should take responsibility for someone i have nothing to do with? Lazy

silverharp wrote:

each to their own, my main concern is my kids. I think my son is immune to feminism now, can you imagine the disappointment I'd have if he declared himself a feminist there is hope for the next generation

I can imagine your disappointment alright. It depends on your priorities. If you're mostly motivated by opposing the 'other' you'll probably be contented with whinging in like minded chat rooms.

Those who want to address inequality which negatively impact people, will probably be active in raising awareness in productive ways too.

El_Duderino 09 · 14-03-2017 05:03PM

JRant wrote:

Not sure where you're heading to El Dude but that was not what I had in mind when posting. I meant it figuratively rather than literally, ie femist groups will not campaign for mens rights or issues, instead men will have to organise and campaign themselves.

They should organise. Any group that wants to highlight problems and acheive solutions, needs to organise. These things don't just happen by themselves.

The point that i was getting at in that post is that there are plenty of areas where men aren't interested in change for equality, even if those changes would be beneficial to men generally. Some men see themselves has having roles because that's how they learned to behave (that's why i used the example of giving a seat on the bus/holding doors for elderly people and women.

It would take a fair bit of organisation to get straight the message about what men do actually want. It's easy to point to some daft bints on the internet and assume everyone who disagrees is one of them. That doesn't address any real issues though, and it doesn't make things any better for anyone who is at a disadvantage

silverharp · 14-03-2017 05:29PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you were unhappy with this lazy thinking when you expected me to disavow this group of which I'm not a part. Now you seem happy to go back to that unthinking premise, 'they're all the same'. Lazy.

So we're back to you thinking i should take responsibility for someone i have nothing to do with? Lazy

I can imagine your disappointment alright. It depends on your priorities. If you're mostly motivated by opposing the 'other' you'll probably be contented with whinging in like minded chat rooms.

Those who want to address inequality which negatively impact people, will probably be active in raising awareness in productive ways too.

its not lazy, just being pragmatic , if its the common response of the feminist shock troops ie some combination of blue hair and taking a woman's study course then that is pretty much the intellectual centre of the movement. it means its a common belief and or their lecturers are indoctrinating them in this stuff.

well fine but then if you want men to discuss inequalities they should be free to meet up, its apparent that this isn't so clear cut. can you get on to the feminist hive mind and tell them to call off their blue haired "freaks"?
Below is another random example. Why would you as a man take the feminist position which is clearly hostile to men?

Men's activists hold a public forum to discuss the possibility of giving male victims of domestic violence some of the social services that are currently only available to female victims. Feminists, who strongly oppose any recognition of male victims of abuse, disrupt the forum and try to shut it down. They oppose free and open discussion of gender issues.

The conference was held in Ottawa, Canada six or seven years ago. It was organized by two fathers' groups in Ottawa. The keynote speaker was Canadian Senator Anne Cools. You can easily find information about her on the web.

She has been a radical feminist and in 1974 she founded one of the first shelters for abused women in Canada. In the 1990s she changed her views and became a vocal defender of fathers and has campaigned for greater access between children and fathers after divorce. She is also a strong advocate for battered husbands and that was the topic of her speech at the conference (Family Violence). She still has a seat in the Canadian Senate.

In total there were eight videos of the feminists disrupting the conference, but I picked the second one as being most representative. In the end, the feminists, cursing and spitting, were removed by security.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qodygTkTUYM

silverharp · 14-03-2017 05:33PM

LostinBlanch wrote: »

This definitely rings true with me. There are definitely a section of feminists that are totally anti any groups of men getting together for fear that they would discuss anything verboten i.e. not approved by feminists. It's classic divide and conquer tactics.

This is the thing that gets me. If this was men trying to shut down or direct any womens conversation like this there would be war, and rightly so. The hypocrisy is galling. But then again there are other instances of feminists trying to "direct" mens conversation lest they actually be allowed to think for themselves and suggest courses of action that go against feminist orthodoxy on males i.e. that males are responsible for every bad thing in the world. I'm thinking in particular of feminist opposition to International Mens day for example.

a double standard for sure. at the end of the day these feminists aren't an average cross section of women, I bet a psychologist could have a field day with them

El_Duderino 09 · 14-03-2017 05:51PM

silverharp wrote:

its not lazy, just being pragmatic , if its the common response of the feminist shock troops ie some combination of blue hair and taking a woman's study course then that is pretty much the intellectual centre of the movement. it means its a common belief and or their lecturers are indoctrinating them in this stuff.

No idea why you keep telling me about these people.

silverharp wrote:

can you get on to the feminist hive mind and tell them to call off their blue haired "freaks"?

Hive mind blah blah.. blue haired freaks blah blah. We're a diverse group but they're all the same.
Lazy. So lazy.

silverharp wrote:

Below is another random example. Why would you as a man take the feminist position which is clearly hostile to men?

You keep showing me random examples as if they're relevant to me.
Which positions have i taken that are hostile towards men? Or is this something you saw some American on the internet and now think it's all my fault? Lazy thinking and shouldn't pass muster.

givyjoe · 14-03-2017 05:55PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

No idea why you keep telling me about these people.

Hive mind blah blah.. blue haired freaks blah blah. We're a diverse group but they're all the same.
Lazy. So lazy.

You keep showing me random examples as if they're relevant to me.
Which positions have i taken that are hostile towards men? Or is this something you saw some American on the internet and now think it's all my fault? Lazy thinking and shouldn't pass muster.

Your entire attitude stinks towards men it seems (across this thread and others), which is bizarre seen as you are one (as indicated by other posters).

El_Duderino 09 · 14-03-2017 06:18PM

givyjoe wrote:

Your entire attitude stinks towards men it seems (across this thread and others), which is bizarre seen as you are one (as indicated by other posters).

Could you show something i said about men that betrays my stinking attitude towards men? If you're sure of what you're saying then it should be easy to find a couple of good examples.

givyjoe · 14-03-2017 06:27PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Could you show something i said about men that betrays my stinking attitude towards men? If you're sure of what you're saying then it should be easy to find a couple of good examples.

You specifically keep banging on in your recent posts, about men 'whining'.. simply because they voice their opinions/concerns on an internet forum and not 'taking action'. I'm not going trawling through your posts history from other threads and pulling out examples, but I've seen enough over the last few months to make this reasonable judgement.

The contempt dripping from your recent posts on this thread is pretty obvious though.

JRant · 14-03-2017 06:28PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

They should organise. Any group that wants to highlight problems and acheive solutions, needs to organise. These things don't just happen by themselves.

The point that i was getting at in that post is that there are plenty of areas where men aren't interested in change for equality, even if those changes would be beneficial to men generally. Some men see themselves has having roles because that's how they learned to behave (that's why i used the example of giving a seat on the bus/holding doors for elderly people and women.

It would take a fair bit of organisation to get straight the message about what men do actually want. It's easy to point to some daft bints on the internet and assume everyone who disagrees is one of them. That doesn't address any real issues though, and it doesn't make things any better for anyone who is at a disadvantage

Well I can think of 3 redline issues that need to be addressed immediately and with a bit of organisation could be achieved fairly quickly.
1: Fathers rights, an issue that has been ignored for far too long now.
2: Proper health campaigns targeting men. Why prostate screening is not a nationwide program is scandalous IMO. It affects so many men's standard of living.
3: The education gap. Why are boys being left behind in the education sector? Now I have my own idea as to why but at this stage with twice as many girls entering third level it really is time for a serious examination as to why this is happening.

El_Duderino 09 · 14-03-2017 06:45PM

givyjoe wrote:

You specifically keep banging on in your recent posts, about men 'whining'.. simply because they voice their opinions/concerns on an internet forum and not 'taking action'.

Ah i get your misunderstanding. I've been 'banging on in recent posts' about exclusively voicing opinions in chat forums in lieu of actually doing anything productive. If voicing opinions in chat forum was backed up by action it might acheive something. Just chatting amongst other men who almost exclusivelyâ€‹ already hold the same opinion isn't even trying to acheive anything, it just descends into whinging about the fact that feminists have organised and get things done.

I feel completely confident I need to print out for you that i haven't tried to discourage anyone voicing opinions/ concerns. I have however pointed out that you can whinge or you can do something useful. Both are FINE, but one is more productive than the other.

givyjoe wrote:

I'm not going trawling through your posts history from other threads and pulling out examples, but I've seen enough over the last few months to make this reasonable judgement.

User you could point to loads and loads. You just don't want to. I getcha.

givyjoe wrote:

The contempt dripping from your recent posts on this thread is pretty obvious though.

Contempt? I said men should get active to raise awareness about the issues if inequality that disadvantage them and pursue ways to solve those issues. Is that the kind of contempt you mean?

In response to saying I support men being active as well as having this type of support group, some posters keep talking about how frightened they are of blue haired sociologist 'freaks'.

El_Duderino 09 · 14-03-2017 06:51PM

JRant wrote:

Well I can think of 3 redline issues that need to be addressed immediately and with a bit of organisation could be achieved fairly quickly. 1: Fathers rights, an issue that has been ignored for far too long now. 2: Proper health campaigns targeting men. Why prostate screening is not a nationwide program is scandalous IMO. It affects so many men's standard of living. 3: The education gap. Why are boys being left behind in the education sector? Now I have my own idea as to why but at this stage with twice as many girls entering third level it really is time for a serious examination as to why this is happening.

Those are real issues of inequality affecting real people. I'd love to see action on those points. Bouncing them around an echo chamber is nice but, doesn't have much chance of changing anything for the better. Would you agree?

Women have acheive health screening (breast cancer for example). Does anyone think the government just decided to spend a load of money on those programmes and awareness campaigns if nobody agitated and made a lot of noise, presented evidence etc?

Icemancometh · 14-03-2017 07:10PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Those are real issues of inequality affecting real people. I'd love to see action on those points. Bouncing them around an echo chamber is nice but, doesn't have much chance of changing anything for the better. Would you agree?

Women have acheive health screening (breast cancer for example). Does anyone think the government just decided to spend a load of money on those programmes and awareness campaigns if nobody agitated and made a lot of noise, presented evidence etc?

The evidence for breast cancer screening is actually pretty weak, and it's probably a good example of politics trumping science. Cervical screening on the other hand is rock-solid.

py2006 · 14-03-2017 07:19PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I've been 'banging on in recent posts' about exclusively voicing opinions in chat forums in lieu of actually doing anything productive. If voicing opinions in chat forum was backed up by action it might acheive something. Just chatting amongst other men who almost exclusivelyâ€‹ already hold the same opinion isn't even trying to acheive anything, it just descends into whinging about the fact that feminists have organised and get things done.

Surely it is a good thing that men are starting to you know....'talk'. At least online is a start.

Also, criticising the hypocrisy and double standards of some of todays feminism is not "whinging" about them getting things done! What they are doing is questionable.

El_Duderino 09 · 14-03-2017 07:29PM

py2006 wrote:

Surely it is a good thing that men are starting to you know....'talk'. At least online is a start.

Talking is great. Talking in lieu of action is whinging.

py2006 wrote:

Also, criticising the hypocrisy and double standards of some of todays feminism is not "whinging" about them getting things done! What they are doing is questionable.

Sure. And whinging about hypocracy etc. does nothing to help anyone who's disadvantaged by inequality.

Apart from anything else, the feminists are actually getting things done for good or ill. That's the thrust of most of the chats on this thread. Very little of what they have gotten done has been acheive by talking amongst themselves.

Ha! I'm in the wrong for advodating action against inequality. I'd say some posters would disagree with gravity if they thought a feminist proposed it.

py2006 · 14-03-2017 07:33PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Talking is great. Talking in lieu of action is whinging.

What action do you suggest?

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Sure. And whinging about hypocracy etc. does nothing to help anyone who's disadvantaged by inequality.

Apart from anything else, the feminists are actually getting things done for good or ill. That's the thrust of most of the chats on this thread. Very little of what they have gotten done has been acheive by talking amongst themselves.

Ha! I'm in the wrong for advodating action against inequality. I'd say some posters would disagree with gravity if they thought a feminist proposed it.

Nobody is whinging. Do you say that to everybody on boards you don't agree with? Its a discussion forum, we are here to discuss.

People will disagree with feminists like LON for plenty of obvious reasons. It is interesting you are only accusing men of whinging and not the women who disagree with her.

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