El_Duderino 09 wrote: » American extremists, Una Mullaly, LON are central casting? For what, a soap opera? You'd swear they were normal people rather than the noisy fringe. Tell my you understand those people are wind up merchants playing a part, don't you? Like Katie Hopkins and Piers Morgan and the rest. It's as lazy as saying Osama bin Laden is an everyday Muslim and Fred Phelps is an everyday Christian, Trump is an everyday American. Lazy. Show me some of this contempt I've demonstrated. It should be easy to show if it's so prevalent. Or is all that just shorthand for 'you disagreed with me and I'm now upset'?
silverharp wrote: the easiest places to access feminist ideas are from looking at the US Canada and the UK, feminists here are going to be influenced or will ape what they see happening there. In fairness I dont know much about the Irish feminist scene but its easy to get an AH thread going on Una Mullaly or Louise O'Neill , they are straight from central casting feminists and they are Misandric no? could you rewrite their articles by switching the sexes and hope to get published? or again am i missing something and Irish feminists have disavowed them?
silverharp wrote: As for yourself, you come across as quite a sneering individual on these threads so would seem to tie in with general attitudes towards men, which again is a bit odd if you are a man, why would you have contempt for your own sex?
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » If your suggesting that feminists only whinge rather than taking action, then you mustn't have read much of this thread. It's mostly about how effective 'The feminist movement' is. Whinging in lieu of action isn't a problem for 'the feminists'
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » Those are real issues of inequality affecting real people. I'd love to see action on those points. Bouncing them around an echo chamber is nice but, doesn't have much chance of changing anything for the better. Would you agree? Women have acheive health screening (breast cancer for example). Does anyone think the government just decided to spend a load of money on those programmes and awareness campaigns if nobody agitated and made a lot of noise, presented evidence etc?
Deleted User wrote: Perhaps it's not intentional but I'm guessing others, like myself, find that to be ,well, a judgement. Passing sentence on us as whingers because we like to discuss things in far greater detail than most people do in person.
Deleted User wrote: Just the way it reads...
py2006 wrote: What action do you suggest?
py2006 wrote: Nobody is whinging. Do you say that to everybody on boards you don't agree with? Its a discussion forum, we are here to discuss.
py2006 wrote: People will disagree with feminists like LON for plenty of obvious reasons. It is interesting you are only accusing men of whinging and not the women who disagree with her.
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » You mean share the heavy lifting? That's an interesting point. These threads pop up every once in a while 'holding doors for women' 'lifting things...' 'standing on the bus for women'. The striking thing about those threads is the men who resolutely refuse to entertain the idea of not stepping back and allowing women through the door before themselves. 'I was raised properly to offer my seat on the bs to elderly people and women'
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » No idea why you keep telling me about these people. Hive mind blah blah.. blue haired freaks blah blah. We're a diverse group but they're all the same. Lazy. So lazy. You keep showing me random examples as if they're relevant to me. Which positions have i taken that are hostile towards men? Or is this something you saw some American on the internet and now think it's all my fault? Lazy thinking and shouldn't pass muster.
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » If voicing opinions in chat forum was backed up by action it might acheive something. Just chatting amongst other men who almost exclusively​ already hold the same opinion isn't even trying to acheive anything, it just descends into whinging about the fact that feminists have organised and get things done.
I feel completely confident I need to print out for you that i haven't tried to discourage anyone voicing opinions/ concerns. I have however pointed out that you can whinge or you can do something useful. Both are FINE, but one is more productive than the other.
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » Talking is great. Talking in lieu of action is whinging.
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » Sure. And whinging about hypocracy etc. does nothing to help anyone who's disadvantaged by inequality. Apart from anything else, the feminists are actually getting things done for good or ill. That's the thrust of most of the chats on this thread. Very little of what they have gotten done has been acheive by talking amongst themselves. Ha! I'm in the wrong for advodating action against inequality. I'd say some posters would disagree with gravity if they thought a feminist proposed it.
py2006 wrote: Surely it is a good thing that men are starting to you know....'talk'. At least online is a start.
py2006 wrote: Also, criticising the hypocrisy and double standards of some of todays feminism is not "whinging" about them getting things done! What they are doing is questionable.
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » I've been 'banging on in recent posts' about exclusively voicing opinions in chat forums in lieu of actually doing anything productive. If voicing opinions in chat forum was backed up by action it might acheive something. Just chatting amongst other men who almost exclusively​ already hold the same opinion isn't even trying to acheive anything, it just descends into whinging about the fact that feminists have organised and get things done.
JRant wrote: Well I can think of 3 redline issues that need to be addressed immediately and with a bit of organisation could be achieved fairly quickly. 1: Fathers rights, an issue that has been ignored for far too long now. 2: Proper health campaigns targeting men. Why prostate screening is not a nationwide program is scandalous IMO. It affects so many men's standard of living. 3: The education gap. Why are boys being left behind in the education sector? Now I have my own idea as to why but at this stage with twice as many girls entering third level it really is time for a serious examination as to why this is happening.
givyjoe wrote: You specifically keep banging on in your recent posts, about men 'whining'.. simply because they voice their opinions/concerns on an internet forum and not 'taking action'.
givyjoe wrote: I'm not going trawling through your posts history from other threads and pulling out examples, but I've seen enough over the last few months to make this reasonable judgement.
givyjoe wrote: The contempt dripping from your recent posts on this thread is pretty obvious though.
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » They should organise. Any group that wants to highlight problems and acheive solutions, needs to organise. These things don't just happen by themselves. The point that i was getting at in that post is that there are plenty of areas where men aren't interested in change for equality, even if those changes would be beneficial to men generally. Some men see themselves has having roles because that's how they learned to behave (that's why i used the example of giving a seat on the bus/holding doors for elderly people and women. It would take a fair bit of organisation to get straight the message about what men do actually want. It's easy to point to some daft bints on the internet and assume everyone who disagrees is one of them. That doesn't address any real issues though, and it doesn't make things any better for anyone who is at a disadvantage
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » Could you show something i said about men that betrays my stinking attitude towards men? If you're sure of what you're saying then it should be easy to find a couple of good examples.
givyjoe wrote: Your entire attitude stinks towards men it seems (across this thread and others), which is bizarre seen as you are one (as indicated by other posters).
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » No idea why you keep telling me about these people. Hive mind blah blah.. blue haired freaks blah blah. We're a diverse group but they're all the same. Lazy. So lazy. You keep showing me random examples as if they're relevant to me.Which positions have i taken that are hostile towards men? Or is this something you saw some American on the internet and now think it's all my fault? Lazy thinking and shouldn't pass muster.
silverharp wrote: its not lazy, just being pragmatic , if its the common response of the feminist shock troops ie some combination of blue hair and taking a woman's study course then that is pretty much the intellectual centre of the movement. it means its a common belief and or their lecturers are indoctrinating them in this stuff.
silverharp wrote: can you get on to the feminist hive mind and tell them to call off their blue haired "freaks"?
silverharp wrote: Below is another random example. Why would you as a man take the feminist position which is clearly hostile to men?
LostinBlanch wrote: » This definitely rings true with me. There are definitely a section of feminists that are totally anti any groups of men getting together for fear that they would discuss anything verboten i.e. not approved by feminists. It's classic divide and conquer tactics. This is the thing that gets me. If this was men trying to shut down or direct any womens conversation like this there would be war, and rightly so. The hypocrisy is galling. But then again there are other instances of feminists trying to "direct" mens conversation lest they actually be allowed to think for themselves and suggest courses of action that go against feminist orthodoxy on males i.e. that males are responsible for every bad thing in the world. I'm thinking in particular of feminist opposition to International Mens day for example.
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you were unhappy with this lazy thinking when you expected me to disavow this group of which I'm not a part. Now you seem happy to go back to that unthinking premise, 'they're all the same'. Lazy. So we're back to you thinking i should take responsibility for someone i have nothing to do with? Lazy I can imagine your disappointment alright. It depends on your priorities. If you're mostly motivated by opposing the 'other' you'll probably be contented with whinging in like minded chat rooms. Those who want to address inequality which negatively impact people, will probably be active in raising awareness in productive ways too.
Men's activists hold a public forum to discuss the possibility of giving male victims of domestic violence some of the social services that are currently only available to female victims. Feminists, who strongly oppose any recognition of male victims of abuse, disrupt the forum and try to shut it down. They oppose free and open discussion of gender issues. The conference was held in Ottawa, Canada six or seven years ago. It was organized by two fathers' groups in Ottawa. The keynote speaker was Canadian Senator Anne Cools. You can easily find information about her on the web. She has been a radical feminist and in 1974 she founded one of the first shelters for abused women in Canada. In the 1990s she changed her views and became a vocal defender of fathers and has campaigned for greater access between children and fathers after divorce. She is also a strong advocate for battered husbands and that was the topic of her speech at the conference (Family Violence). She still has a seat in the Canadian Senate. In total there were eight videos of the feminists disrupting the conference, but I picked the second one as being most representative. In the end, the feminists, cursing and spitting, were removed by security.
JRant wrote: Not sure where you're heading to El Dude but that was not what I had in mind when posting. I meant it figuratively rather than literally, ie femist groups will not campaign for mens rights or issues, instead men will have to organise and campaign themselves.
silverharp wrote: well you have to take a certain amount of ownership that you are involved in a man hating movement...
silverharp wrote: one of the guys in the video I linked simply wanted to come to terms with why 2 of his male friends had committed suicide , the feminist women wanted to dictate how he should do this apparently he shouldn't make the decision himself
silverharp wrote: each to their own, my main concern is my kids. I think my son is immune to feminism now, can you imagine the disappointment I'd have if he declared himself a feminist there is hope for the next generation
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » No harm if the ones with greatest interest moved from whining in chat forums to being active and raising awareness and advocating action in areas where men are behind. Nothing wrong with whining or being active but one is more productive than the other You mean share the heavy lifting? That's an interesting point. These threads pop up every once in a while 'holding doors for women' 'lifting things...' 'standing on the bus for women'. The striking thing about those threads is the men who resolutely refuse to entertain the idea of not stepping back and allowing women through the door before themselves. 'I was raised properly to offer my seat on the bs to elderly people and women'. Some people have strange understandings and some of these points of equality, such as the ones mentioned above, are almost solely by men. As it goes a pregnant woman opened a door for me in work yesterday. We weren't walking together or anything, she just got to the door first and pressed the button stood back and said 'after you'. I went ahead and thanked her in accordance with 21st century etiquette. For some people the only thing worse than this type of thing not happening is this type of thing actually happening.
silverharp wrote: » and yet when they do you blue haired friends try to close it down :pac: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iARHCxAMAO0
silverharp wrote: » well you have to take a certain amount of ownership that you are involved in a man hating movement that doesn't appear to like groups of men getting together hence the irony of your post.
silverharp wrote: » one of the guys in the video I linked simply wanted to come to terms with why 2 of his male friends had committed suicide , the feminist women wanted to dictate how he should do this apparently he shouldn't make the decision himself.
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » No idea why you're bringing it then
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » Grand. Well you seem happy with how you're contributing to the men's side of the equality movement. I would have thought being physically active along with internet chats would be more productive than internet chats alone. I'll defer to you on this. You seem more involved than myself. Happy to hear it's going to plan for you.
silverharp wrote: don't worry I wasn't looking for your personal disavowal , just a general observation about blue haired feminists , there is no free speech wing that I can see or calling out
silverharp wrote: I'd say awareness instead of whinging, men are stoical most of the time, just point out the land mines and we will walk around them.
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