Occasional use of car for work purposes

PGL · 09-03-2017 09:09AM #1

Hi folks

I have a query about car insurance in context of work purposes - apologies if this question has been asked before but I couldn't find it.

My work has always been office based, but on average I generally travel via my own car to a meeting out of the office once every two weeks. Each year when renewing my car insurance I have always declared that I use my car for personal use only. I have not been entirely honest because I have been afraid my premium would shoot up just to cover a work trip every 2 weeks.

I know from chatting to my work colleagues that we are all in the same boat, and have not discussed it with the boss. None of us have ever had a claim, but the topic recently came up in conversation in the office after one or two of the staff attended a driver behavoural course.

Would anyone have an idea of how much (rough percentage) car insurance would increase to cover work trips, and would it be the responsibility of the employer to cover the additional costs?

Many thanks!

jimgoose · 09-03-2017 09:15AM

Well, I suppose you could argue that travelling out-of-town to the occasional meeting is just commuting. It's an interesting question, and I'm sure one of the insurance dudes will be along in due course to clarify.

granturismo · 09-03-2017 09:21AM

Whats the purpose of the trip every 2 weeks?

When you drive to another work site, are using your car for work purposes during the day or just using the car to get there in the morning and return at the end of the job? Are you carrying property belonging to your employer?

We have instances here of staff driving colleagues and non-hazardous, not expensive equipment to third party sites maybe 6 times a year. Each driver is told to explain the extent to their insurer and ask if they are covered for 'occasional business use'. To date no one has been charged an insurance excess, we have agreed amongst ourselves and told our employer that no one will drive without occasional business use cover and should an insurer charge extra then its up to the employer to pay it.

Anytime I've queried driving colleagues to a meeting maybe 4 times a year, my insurance companies are not interested in this scenario.

PGL · 09-03-2017 10:25AM

granturismo wrote: »

Whats the purpose of the trip every 2 weeks?

When you drive to another work site, are using your car for work purposes during the day or just using the car to get there in the morning and return at the end of the job? Are you carrying property belonging to your employer?

We have instances here of staff driving colleagues and non-hazardous, not expensive equipment to third party sites maybe 6 times a year. Each driver is told to explain the extent to their insurer and ask if they are covered for 'occasional business use'. To date no one has been charged an insurance excess, we have agreed amongst ourselves and told our employer that no one will drive without occasional business use cover and should an insurer charge extra then its up to the employer to pay it.

Anytime I've queried driving colleagues to a meeting maybe 4 times a year, my insurance companies are not interested in this scenario.

I travel to meetings on average once every two weeks. The meetings are in various locations inside Co. Dublin and also beyond e.g. Cork, Limerick, Sligo, Belfast. I live within 5 mins of my workplace, so it would be a stretch to claim I was commuting to work if I had an accident outside of this small catchment area. The only property I would carry belonging to my employer is my laptop. Occasionally the boss would also travel with me going to meetings.

Any further feedback would be much appreciated, and it would be useful to know what the definition of "occasional business use"

Corvo · 09-03-2017 10:34AM

You need to request Class 2 - Business Use

NUTLEY BOY · 09-03-2017 11:05AM

A slightly different angle.

Employers are vicariously liable for the negligence of their employees (servants and agents in the older currency) in respect of acts carried out during the course of employment. What constitutes an act during the course of employment is not always as clear cut as might be wished. This is no less so if deciding on whether use is for business or not.

In the context of a vehicle, the negligence of the driver who is an employee driving in the course of work renders two parties liable. The driver is liable for their own negligence. The employer can be rendered vicariously liable for the driver's negligence.

My main point is that I would not want to be trying to draw a precariously slim distinction between driving TO work which is commuting and driving FOR work which is business use.

Driving to a different location from your usual working location and arguing that as commuting to work is decidedly dodgy and leaves people wide open to refusal of indemnity on the grounds of use outside the scope of what is covered as per the certificate of insurance.

In short, do not take the chance as you will eventually come a cropper. If employers require or request an employee to drive from A to B, howsoever tenuously associated to work it might be, regard that as business use that should be covered as such.

BTW with business use be careful to be sure about whose legal liability is covered as distinct from whose driving is covered e.g. the policyholder's employer during business use. Again, the certificate of insurance is the Gospel for that...

granturismo · 09-03-2017 12:15PM

PGL wrote: »

Any further feedback would be much appreciated, and it would be useful to know what the definition of "occasional business use"

Corvo wrote: »

You need to request Class 2 - Business Use

Just ring your insurance company,explain the details and get a definitive answer.

coylemj · 09-03-2017 05:11PM

Corvo wrote: »

You need to request Class 2 - Business Use

+1 This is correct and in order to avoid some call agent deciding that you need Class 3 (sales) cover, you need to stress two things .....

1. Your use of your car is not in connection with sales

2. You will not be carrying goods or samples

I got this cover from Axa for no extra charge. But you absolutely need to emphasise the two points above.

akasudonim · 09-03-2017 05:24PM

Class 2 - Business use. Have had this with multiple insurers for years.

As Coy said tends to be required if you carry goods or samples, but also if you carry colleagues to/from work functions (meetings etc.)

Have tested the costs several years with various providers at renewal time and it's never increased the premium, as far as I could tell.

Better have it and not want it than be caught without!

coylemj · 09-03-2017 08:51PM

akasudonim wrote: »

As Coy said tends to be required if you carry goods or samples, but also if you carry colleagues to/from work functions (meetings etc.)

I'm hoping that's a mistype and you meant 'if you do not carry goods or samples'. My understanding at the time (a few years ago) was that the insurance companies prefer if you don't, at least if you want class 2 cover for no charge.

I think cover which includes business use and carrying goods or samples (but not selling) puts you into the category of mobile skilled worker - electrician, plumber etc. and you don't want that as there will be a loading on your premium.

akasudonim · 09-03-2017 11:22PM

Yes sorry, typo, you're correct - if you do not carry goods, then Class B is fine, and in my experience has no loading applied.

dudara · 09-03-2017 11:24PM

I request Class II with imdemnity to my employer every year (I have to furnish the insurance cert to my employer or I can't claim mileage). It's never cost me a penny extra.

ted1 · 09-03-2017 11:25PM

Business use only cost me an extra 40 euro a year. If your are getting paid mileage you should deffo have it

If you are not getting Milage then why subsidie the company out of your own pocket

cml387 · 10-03-2017 08:22AM

If we need to use our car on business (e.g. driving to a customer site) we notify HR who put us on the companies insurance for that period.

ted1 · 10-03-2017 10:23AM

cml387 wrote: »

If we need to use our car on business (e.g. driving to a customer site) we notify HR who put us on the companies insurance for that period.

That doesn't sound right, the company has no indurable intreset in your car, and thus can't cover your car.
For 40 euro it's worth extending your own cover

10-03-2017 10:28AM

I have seen the following advised by a large corporation.......

Driving for Work is where you are paid mileage by "large corporation" for distance travelled. Commuting to and from work is not driving for work.

The following is required............Adequately insured for “Business Cover"

Before you drive for work you need to provide the following to HR for your file:
........................
................... Copy of car insurance indicating that you are covered for business use

ted1 · 10-03-2017 11:46AM

Augeo wrote: »

I have seen the following advised by a large corporation.......

Driving for Work is where you are paid mileage by "large corporation" for distance travelled. Commuting to and from work is not driving for work.

The following is required............Adequately insured for “Business Cover"

Before you drive for work you need to provide the following to HR for your file:
........................
................... Copy of car insurance indicating that you are covered for business use

That's the same with us .

coylemj · 10-03-2017 12:53PM

Yes, indemnity to your employer is typically included in Class II ('limited business use') cover. I took an allowance for driving my own car instead of taking a company car and was required to have the indemnity clause in the policy (which I did) though I was never asked to prove it.

Liam McPoyle · 12-03-2017 05:09PM

ted1 wrote: »

That doesn't sound right, the company has no indurable intreset in your car, and thus can't cover your car.
For 40 euro it's worth extending your own cover

That's known as OBU, occasional business.

The employer basically pays additional premium to their own motor insurer to cover their staff members while on company business.

It wouldn't be very common but it does exist.

NUTLEY BOY · 13-03-2017 11:32AM

ted1 wrote: »

That doesn't sound right, the company has no indurable intreset in your car, and thus can't cover your car.
For 40 euro it's worth extending your own cover

Would insurable interest for the employer not arise under statute ? I am thinking of RTA 1961 S.56. Could you argue that the employer is the user of the car during the course of business use ?

Link - http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1961/act/24/section/56/enacted/en/html#sec56

PGL · 15-03-2017 09:06PM

thanks for all the feedback folks. i'm doing a little bit more digging before bringing this up with my employer. i get paid "civil servant" mileage expenses. does anyone know what exactly this covers, and would it happen to include for car insurance? i put a query into the revenue about this last week, but am yet to get a reply from them.

cheers!

coylemj · 15-03-2017 10:33PM

PGL wrote: »

thanks for all the feedback folks. i'm doing a little bit more digging before bringing this up with my employer. i get paid "civil servant" mileage expenses. does anyone know what exactly this covers, and would it happen to include for car insurance? i put a query into the revenue about this last week, but am yet to get a reply from them.

Revenue can't answer that question! If you're not in the public service but are getting 'civil servant' mileage rates, that is because that is the most your employer can pay you (per km) without it being considered taxable income.

What it's supposed to cover (in terms of insurance) is between your employer and you but most employers would expect you to have an indemnity clause (indemnifying them) in your policy.

If you want a definitive answer, ask your employer. Nobody else can help you.

Occasional use of car for work purposes

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