Message ITV will cease soon

jasgrif11 · 25-07-2003 7:46am #1

Hi all,

I've been getting this message for the past three days at around 4pm each day. It appears on ITV

" This Channel Will cease operation soon
Please contact the following number"

Anyone else getting this??

irishgeo · 25-07-2003 9:03am

This message appears because you are using a version 1 FTV card and these will be turned off with the V1 Sky sub cards sometime in September i think.

Not much you can do about now as they have stopped doing anything with FTv cards?

You could get a English Sky sub for a month but i dont know anything about how you would go about getting one.

dmeehan · 25-07-2003 9:32am

You could get a English Sky sub for a month but i dont know anything about how you would go about getting one.

does anyone know of an "easy" way to get this?

Lennoxschips · 25-07-2003 10:21am

I know somebody in England with Sky. I wonder if they phoned up and said that they had lost/damaged their card, if the old card would function as an FTV card when they get their new one...

Genghis · 25-07-2003 10:33am

You might well be on to something lennoxchips. It would be worthwhile trying it out - or even posting the question on the UK ds board.

However, if you move an old sub card from its original box, would it work with a new box? Would you get all the channels, or just ITV, C4, C5 - or would you get none? For security reasons, Sky might also routinely cancel all cards that are lost or damaged.

carrolls · 25-07-2003 12:10pm

You could get a English Sky sub for a month but i dont know anything about how you would go about getting one.

This is not going to work, because if you discontinue your UK subscription after a period less than a year, even if you own your Digibox, they switch off the card in its entirety.
This had been posted on Digital Spy a few times.
Maybe its untrue. If anybody has recent experience of the trying this, please post.

DMC · 25-07-2003 12:11pm

As there is no FTV card system anymore, there is no one to convert version 2 Sky sub cards that have had their sub cancelled to work as a FTV card, I assume. There is no middle ground anymore. Once there was Sky, FTV or FTA. FTV is gone now, so its either a Sky sub or FTA, no inbetween.

ShaneOC · 25-07-2003 12:23pm

I have a version 1 FTV card in use in a digibox which it was not married to. As of yet I have not seen any messages telling me that I will loose the channels. There is no longer a subscription associated with the box so there will be no new card going in to invalidate the FTV card. Hopefully this may be a loophole and we hamy get away with FTV viewing for a while longer.

25-07-2003 12:31pm

ditto, my version one card is married to the box it is in and no message has came up on it yet.

The box is always either on or in standby, so the card is always getting the updates....God I hope no one at sky reads this...
mm

ShaneOC · 25-07-2003 12:53pm

Originally posted by Man
ditto, my version one card is married to the box it is in and no message has came up on it yet.

Note: My V1 card is NOT married to the box it is being used in. It has obviously been activated in another box.

bkehoe · 25-07-2003 1:30pm

Hmm, I wonder if i swap all my ftv cards around will itv will stay working....hmmm?

watty · 25-07-2003 2:17pm

The cards get the message in blocks so Sky's phone is not too busy.

ALL the FTV cards, Type 1 and later Type2 will get the message.

Only BBC was married to box on a FTV card. Perhaps a few exceptions.

Unless Sky is stopped by UK, they will turn off ALL FTV / non-active sub cards by end of year.

In reality the lack of funding for a FTV Centre only stops issuing and activating new ones, but Sky using it as excure to disable all the cards already paid for (BBC 82%, C4 and Five 18% and ITV 0%). ITV, C4 and Five also have paid and continue to pay for regionalisation and encryption.

Since Sky is not regulated here and we not part of FTV scheme anyay we can't complain. But perhaps up to 1 million UK folks are. Many do not want subs yet have Sky because of bad or no reception of Five, TV generally or Freeview.

irishgeo · 25-07-2003 2:25pm

Yeah i dont think Sky would appreciate us riniging up and complaining about how we lost out ITV and C4 in the republic.

There is always one who complains though :rolleyes:

carrolls · 25-07-2003 3:55pm

ALL the FTV cards, Type 1 and later Type2 will get the message.

Watty, It says on the BBC website that the V2 solus cards will continue to work for between 3-5 years. Is this what you mean by the above statement, or have you acquired new information on the lifespan of the V2 FTV cards?

watty · 25-07-2003 7:30pm

The BBC site no doubt was accuate to best of BBC knowledge.

* The BBC no longer pay for FTV
* You no longer need any card for BBC
* Five & C4 (esp Five) did pay 18% for FTV centre but now don't seem to give a toss about it
* ITV never did pay for FTV and won't now either.
* Sky would seem to be suggesting strongly that Type 1 cards turned off on August (FTV or cancelled subs)
* Sky would seem to be suggesting that "FTV" stations will ONLY be available as a free part of a subscription. There is a new UK low cost (sign up min 6 months) sub package which quote"includes ITV, C4 and Five as a free element"
* NG rumour suggests late Autumn for turn off remaing small number of type 2 FTV cards (none were routinely replaced type1s) and cancelled subs will be FTA only.

* Sky news may not become encrypted. Apparently the "message of death" appears if the card is viewing ANY FTV or FTA channel that is on a transponder that has a videoguard carousel (Whaterver one of those is). Some folks assumed the Sky News channel having the "Message of death" meant Sky News was going encrypted.

It boils down to UK situation for ITV/C4 and Five now equal ROI setup for RTE/NET2/TV3/TG4. I can't see ITV waiting for Aug 2004 for FTA. They can probabily change sooner and just pay for encryption anyway even though not using it. Five will likely not even be FTV again. C4 is more "wobbly" but won't do anything unless forced by UK gov or Sky to change Status quo due to E4 and Film 4.

My Advice?

Wait and see. Do nothing.

Don't waste money taking out a new UK sub to cancel it till at least Jan 2004 as they may very well turn off FTV on cancelled subs. Or indeed UK may force Sky to keep existing 1million FTV cards (including type1) going.

Technically they have no need whatsoever to turn off a single FTV card. Any "new" SW used by the new cards can work with the new cards and be ignored by the old cards and vice versa. The probliem is "political" not technical.

Only issuing NEW cards is a "FTV Call Centre"/ financial issue. The existing card don't cost Sky/NDS a cent/penny.

carrolls · 25-07-2003 8:40pm

Originally posted by watty

* NG rumour suggests late Autumn for turn off remaing small number of type 2 FTV cards (none were routinely replaced type1s) and cancelled subs will be FTA only.

I think Media Guardian, (I assume this is to whom you are referring Watty) when they made that statement were spouting all sorts of rubbish on a daily basis. I think the BBC website is the definitive source of info on these issues.
I think all Sky are doing in August is switching off the old encryption encoding/decoding.

West Briton · 25-07-2003 8:50pm

Originally posted by Genghis
You might well be on to something lennoxchips. It would be worthwhile trying it out - or even posting the question on the UK ds board.

Just don't mention that you are Irish! Flame-a-rama.

EKRIUQ · 25-07-2003 9:08pm

Originally posted by watty

ALL the FTV cards, Type 1 and later Type2 will get the message.
In reality the lack of funding for a FTV Centre only stops issuing and activating new ones, but Sky using it as excure to disable all the cards already paid for (BBC 82%, C4 and Five 18% and ITV 0%). ITV, C4 and Five also have paid and continue to pay for regionalisation and encryption.
.

Feck,,,, lack of funding I'll donate €5 euro to the cause

sceptre · 25-07-2003 9:25pm

Originally posted by West Briton
Just don't mention that you are Irish! Flame-a-rama.

Seriously, heed the above for anyone new there. Mentino "Ireland" and "BBC" in the same sentence and you'll get the usual suspects popping up to whinge. Mention "ITV" and they'll get seriously unhappy. Wouldn't surprise me if one or two regulars there (I've one or two in mind) were somehow behind letting ITV know foreigners were watching the channel way back.

Good board and all that, attracts the same proportion of trolls as anywhere else (including here)

26-07-2003 7:54am

Originally posted by ShaneOC
Note: My V1 card is NOT married to the box it is being used in. It has obviously been activated in another box.

Yeah, I had noticed that from the original post.
thing is though, your unmarried card can still receive updates whilst in a strange box.
What i forgot to add , was that i think the reason why some boxes are not showing the soon cease message is that they are originally subscription cards and that message is being sent to cards that were on a list as originally issued exclusively as FTV cards.Unfortunately if and when the old encryption is turned off, we'll lose our pictures aswell.
On a side note I've noticed that if you put your V2 card into a box that you use an old V1 card in, and it's not married to the V2 card, it works, with all the family pack except RTE as usual.
And you can take out your V2 card and put in the V1 card again and that still works.
mm

watty · 26-07-2003 9:56am

NG = Usenet / Newsgroups. You need to connect to a newsserver and use newsreading software (outlook express, Netscape, Agent etc, but not Eudora. make sure you set Outlook to "plain text only" and trim and post below the original or wear asbestos undies and overcoat.)

I wasn't referring to Media Garden which has proved less informative than NG / Use net and less accurate.

Lurk in a NG for a few weeks/months without posting and you'll learn who are idiots, expert and trolls. A lot of idiots and trolls. But every group has some experts.

Some (a very few) NG are accessible via Google Groups. Your ISP will have news server settings which go into the setup of your news reader. A newsreader works a bit like an Email pop/smtp reader, some programs combine both.

Don't EVER post your unblemished email in a NG. Note the Newsreader you use "publishes" it, so edit your eamil address in the mail program used to have some extra word in it or obviously fake. like joe.bloggs23@choppedham-eircom.net Robots collecting email addresses won't remove the choppedham, but a real NG reader will see the obvious extra.

Married cards:

UK Sub. Only certain channels and all Premium (Sky Movies, Sky Sports etc ) and BBC maried to box.

ROI Sub. As above except add RTE.

FTV card. Only BBC married.

Since BBC is no longer encrypted, FTV cards and cancelled UK sub cards are effectively not-married.

Always a card would work in another box on the non-married Pay and FTV channels, depending on FTV, UK sub or ROI sub.

shabbyroad · 27-07-2003 5:02pm

I have a FTV card that I got through an uncle in the UK. It was married to my box (which I bought used on eBay).
Started to get the 'message of death'

yesterday
PITA because I had only this week disconnected NTL from the house and replaced it with the RF output from this box. Don't ever watch ITV (Ch4 mostly).
Was going to give it until the end of August to see if the missus was happy enough with just the Digibox in the living room. Was going to cancel NTL and get a mirror sub sometime next year when the kids started to get in the way of the football.....they're not quite there yet but it might be an interesting winter in the shabbyroad-household

What I'm trying to understand is the situation that folks in the UK are facing. Isn't it the case that SKY are obliged (by the monopolies commission ?) to allow people use a digibox and card to watch BBC/ITV/Ch4/terrestrials ? Or am I completely barking and mis-reading the situation ? My logic is that SKY will have to allow ITV and Ch4/Ch5 viewing to non-subscribers in the UK.

No doubt someone with more knowledge will jump in
right
about
.....
here --->

carrolls · 27-07-2003 6:19pm

Originally posted by shabbyroad
What I'm trying to understand is the situation that folks in the UK are facing. Isn't it the case that SKY are obliged (by the monopolies commission ?) to allow people use a digibox and card to watch BBC/ITV/Ch4/terrestrials ? here --->

Sky are not obliged to provide full coverage of anything. It just happens that Satellite by default does provide near 100% coverage. This is why BBC/ITV/Ch4/terrestrials are broadcasting on Astra.
It is the decision of ITV/Ch4 & Channel 5 to broadcast encrypted.
They are not obliged to broadcast FTA on Satellite. It is an economic decision based on programme rights.

27-07-2003 6:50pm

Originally posted by shabbyroad
I have a FTV card that I got through an uncle in the UK. It was married to my box (which I bought used on eBay).
Started to get the 'message of death' yesterday
PITA because I had only this week disconnected NTL from the house and replaced it with the RF output from this box. Don't ever watch ITV (Ch4 mostly).

Well, ring your Uncle and arrange a UK sky sub, you can use your Irish credit card for the DD form and his address.
If they already have Sky, just put an A after the house number EG:
122A Sky Digital close,
The district,
Birmingham
p1ost c1ode
Or if it's in the country,
Flat A,
House Name,
The district,
The town,
p1ost c1ode

Oh and get your Uncle to make sure the "A" address post gets delivered to his house.
mm

shabbyroad · 28-07-2003 9:13am

Originally posted by Carrolls :
Sky are not obliged to provide full coverage of anything. It just happens that Satellite by default does provide near 100% coverage. This is why BBC/ITV/Ch4/terrestrials are broadcasting on Astra.
It is the decision of ITV/Ch4 & Channel 5 to broadcast encrypted.
They are not obliged to broadcast FTA on Satellite. It is an economic decision based on programme rights.

Are you sure about this ? The reason I ask is that one explanation I got when FTV cards were first made available is that Sky were obliged to allow people who did not want to subscribe to their channels still receive the free-to-air (terrestrial) channels.
Or am I confusing the issue ? Is it instead the case that they were obliged to allow BBC/ITV et al access to their system and that anyone who wanted to could view those channels without paying for a Sky sub but that particular service was paid for and run by BBC/ITV/Ch4 etc.

In which case....where do ITV viewers in the UK now stand ? What has changed for them is that they must subscribe to Sky in order to view ITV on the Sky Digital system - until recently they did not need to pay any money to Sky to do so.

I've probably dragged this thread off-topic enough now so I'll shurrup.

daveg · 28-07-2003 10:04am

Originally posted by shabbyroad
Are you sure about this ? The reason I ask is that one explanation I got when FTV cards were first made available is that Sky were obliged to allow people who did not want to subscribe to their channels still receive the free-to-air (terrestrial) channels.
Or am I confusing the issue ? Is it instead the case that they were obliged to allow BBC/ITV et al access to their system and that anyone who wanted to could view those channels without paying for a Sky sub but that particular service was paid for and run by BBC/ITV/Ch4 etc.

In which case....where do ITV viewers in the UK now stand ? What has changed for them is that they must subscribe to Sky in order to view ITV on the Sky Digital system - until recently they did not need to pay any money to Sky to do so.

I've probably dragged this thread off-topic enough now so I'll shurrup.

My understanding is that only BBC had to provide their channel on the FTV system. My reason for saying this is that the FTV system is paid for by the UK TV licence & only BBC receives revenue from the FTV system. As we all know ITV/CH4 & CH5 receive no revenue from the TV licence (they get their revenue from advertisements). Therefore the only company "obliged" to carry the FTV system were BBc and as they are now broadcasting encrypted they are still fulfilling their obligations.

ShaneOC · 28-07-2003 10:43am

I expect that Sky will begin to receive quite a number of queries about the availability of UTV and Channel 4 on the Irish EPG if and when the FTV cards stop working.

It would be very interesting to know how many FTV cards there are here.

jasgrif11 · 28-07-2003 10:59am

Anyone know the exact date that these cards are due to cease working?.

I also have one of the new FTV cards are these due to stop on the same date?

Its even annoying if you set the video to tape something as I did the other night and when I went to watch my programme about 20 mins into it the banner appeared "this prgramme will cease operation soon click backup etc" as my programme had been recorded there was no way I could get rid of the banner..

ShaneOC · 28-07-2003 11:05am

Originally posted by jasgrif11
Anyone know the exact date that these cards are due to cease working?.

Nobody knows.

Originally posted by jasgrif11
I also have one of the new FTV cards are these due to stop on the same date?

Some people say no, some yes. I have not heard of anyone who has seen the banner on the new FTV cards.

Originally posted by jasgrif11
Its even annoying if you set the video to tape something as I did the other night and when I went to watch my programme about 20 mins into it the banner appeared "this prgramme will cease operation soon click backup etc" as my programme had been recorded there was no way I could get rid of the banner..

If you are reording things like that it might be worth your while tuning the channel into the other channels section. I doubt if the banner will come up when watching a channel via other channels. The red dots definately don't appear.

shabbyroad · 28-07-2003 12:11pm

Its even annoying if you set the video to tape something as I did the other night and when I went to watch my programme about 20 mins into it the banner appeared "this prgramme will cease operation soon click backup etc" as my programme had been recorded there was no way I could get rid of the banner..

if you use the VCR scart output from the digibox to your VCR this should not be a problem - afaik the banners don't appear on the VCR output

ShaneOC · 28-07-2003 12:42pm

Originally posted by shabbyroad
if you use the VCR scart output from the digibox to your VCR this should not be a problem - afaik the banners don't appear on the VCR output

Not sure if this is the case. The red dots definately appear. I would imagine that the banners do too.

Our man in Havana · 28-07-2003 3:05pm

Originally posted by ShaneOC
Nobody knows.

Some people say no, some yes. I have not heard of anyone who has seen the banner on the new FTV cards.

If you are reording things like that it might be worth your while tuning the channel into the other channels section. I doubt if the banner will come up when watching a channel via other channels. The red dots definately don't appear.

No. tried watching ITV via other channels and the b astard banner comes up. It also comes up on the video too.

Got a very sore finger pressing backup yesterday between 4 and 6pm.

((

comet · 28-07-2003 4:10pm

Yes I got the "message of death" too

i'm sad to see my channels going, i was hoping they might have been available on other channels but that seems not to be the case. From reading this thread it seems if i had asked for a reissuing of my FTV card around February then i would have got a v2 card that would have extended FTV by another year or two. Why are v1 cards being turned off but not v2?
Maybe ITV/Channel 4 etc. might decide to go unencrypted to UK boxes now the FTV card is gone?

swoofer · 28-07-2003 7:23pm

I think ssly are trying it on, put a message out to say viewing will cease and it does say " Some channels" and then guage reaction. I expect people will panic and ring sly and sign up for special deal.

Ah well, I am going to wait and wait.

I hate the red dot and banners so got myself a little gadget, works a dream but mucks up personal planner but it keeps muck off my recordings.

Have a look here.

http://freespace.virgin.net/itv.regions/eyecfaq.htm

gb--

David Robinson · 29-07-2003 9:55am

Originally posted by daveg
My understanding is that only BBC had to provide their channel on the FTV system. My reason for saying this is that the FTV system is paid for by the UK TV licence & only BBC receives revenue from the FTV system. As we all know ITV/CH4 & CH5 receive no revenue from the TV licence (they get their revenue from advertisements). Therefore the only company "obliged" to carry the FTV system were BBc and as they are now broadcasting encrypted they are still fulfilling their obligations.

The BBC are not "obliged" to transmit on satellite. No channel is. The BBC chose to go on Sky because of their policy of "platform neutrality" i.e. not favouring one digital platform over another. Also of course it gave them maximum digital coverage in the shortest time.

I assume you meant to say the BBC are "unencrypted".

I do think though that the BBC/ITV/C4/5 have at least a moral responsibility to keep faith with FTV users, many of whom have invested in equipment only to find they are losing some of their services.

ITV/C4/5 have indirectly profited from the TV licence, by getting a cheap or free ride on satellite courtesy of the BBC. Now they are being asked to pull their weight, they are crying foul.

freetoair · 29-07-2003 12:34pm

Just curious, for anyone who has received the dreaded banner, has this happened to anyone with a dedicated FTA box or has it only happened to people who card swap ?

shabbyroad · 29-07-2003 12:39pm

Mine is a dedicated FTA box I guess. The card was always for FTA channels only and the box isn't married to any other card.

comet · 29-07-2003 12:41pm

mine too

04-08-2003 12:13pm

The message of death arrived on channel four this morning-Thanks sky, I really wanted to know what it looked like and would have rang you if you hadn't sent it to me:D

I have a Uk Sub now anyhow, so the message can go and take a running jump:ninja:
When the channels are finally completely blocked by Sky switching entirely to the new encryption code my FTV box will be quite happy to revert to being a BBC etc box.
mm

freetoair · 05-08-2003 12:22pm

Finally got the dreaded banner over the weekend on my FTV London Card. Thought I would somehow get away with it, now living in hope that British Government will intervene when/if there is a public outcry on the mainland !

watty · 05-08-2003 2:12pm

There is a public outcry..

But nothing will be done for months and months...

The original FTV and cancelled sub cards will be turned off "soon"

The P2 (new / version 2) FTV cards may stay working or may be turned off too. Nothing stopping Sky disabling FTV on ANY card. It is in their interests to promote subscriptions rather than FTV.

They are sending message to blocks of cards.

Likely they will disable the cards by blocks too.

They could easily continue present encryption just for ITV, C4 and Five on existing FTV cards. It wouldn't cost a penny. Even if they change to a "new" system on the new Pay TV cards.

However obviously Sky feel since BBC is out of picture they can turn off the existing cards and get some more subscribers.

Many people in UK have FTV cards / unsubsidized Sky even simply to get:
Animorphic WS only on Digital (DTT or Satellite or Cable)
Coverage by Freeview non-existant on nearly 20% of UK
More than 15% have no analog Ch5
Perhaps 10,000 can't get any analog well (0.1%)

Parts of wales, Scotland, Peak district, Lake District etc.

ITC has no powers to fix this.
The new Ofcom will not have power maybe till Jan 2004!

Message ITV will cease soon

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