"Significant" numbers of babies remains actually found

QuestionHere · 05-03-2017 09:42PM

Horrifying to read and even more so the reporting in the media - if this was done by an individual there would have been news agencies from around the world camped at their gates two years ago when it was first reported. Almost 800 bodies and the world media as well as Irish media were utterly complacent and silent. It took an ordinary woman to investigate this - under the watchful eye of the officials in the county council who despite all her queries did not draw any lines or make a single inquiry of their own. 800 dead children. We should all hang our heads in shame.

BorneTobyWilde · 05-03-2017 09:46PM

Can we put to bed that thousands of boy geniuses are building our computers and iphones in sweatshops.

Seth Brundle · 05-03-2017 09:49PM

nhunter100 wrote: »

I think you'll find its illegal to slap a child or anyone for that matter. It's called assault.

Maybe tell the ISPCC then
https://www.ispcc.ie/campaigns-lobbying/ongoing-priorities/slapping-physical-punishment/1056

Going Forward · 05-03-2017 09:51PM

Does anyone know if there were similar mother and baby "homes" in other RC regions/countries in that part of the 20th century?

Is our brutality uniquely Irish?

nhunter100 · 05-03-2017 09:51PM

kbannon wrote:

Maybe tell the ISPCC then

Cruelty against Children Act 2001. You're welcome.

dav3 · 05-03-2017 09:51PM

The same deflection tactics and terms that were used when the pedophiles and rapists were first exposed in the catholic church are being recycled right up to the present day. Terms such as ‘witch-hunts’, ‘hysteria’ and asking people to remain calm are tactics that have been used by the catholic church on numerous occasions. The same people will try to deflect and direct the conversation away from the primary issue of getting justice not only for the children thrown in a hole in the ground but also for their families.

I’d ask any posters or moderators to put aside their partisan and fanatical support for the catholic church for once and help people that are in need of assistance.

A number of helplines have been set up to help anyone affected by the latest revelations.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0303/856961-tuam-babies-housing-estate-residents/

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Seth Brundle · 05-03-2017 09:51PM

pilly wrote: »

And what are you using to type away on?

What's your point? Do I give a crap about kids on the other side of the world? No more or less than anyone else here I suspect.
I'm not becoming emotional or screaming for vengeance against anyone. I know that things won't change regardless of the emotional Facebook type outbursts from some here.

pedigree 6 · 05-03-2017 09:52PM

Maybe this book might explain what times were like back then to people.

https://thedublinreader.wordpress.com/tag/sean-lemass/

The church was the state back then and McQuaid was our ruler.

Seth Brundle · 05-03-2017 09:53PM

nhunter100 wrote: »

Cruelty against Children Act 2001. You're welcome.

Try reading the first line from the ISPCC page again - "Currently there is no outright ban on physical punishment of children by their parents/caregivers in Ireland"

Seth Brundle · 05-03-2017 09:55PM

Going Forward wrote: »

Does anyone know if there were similar mother and baby "homes" in other RC regions/countries in that part of the 20th century?

Is our brutality uniquely Irish?

I believe that similar institutions existed in Spain where coincidentally kids were sold without their mothers knowledge too

cactusgal · 05-03-2017 09:56PM

Going Forward wrote: »

Does anyone know if there were similar mother and baby "homes" in other RC regions/countries in that part of the 20th century?

Is our brutality uniquely Irish?

I'd be curious to know that as well ...

nhunter100 · 05-03-2017 09:57PM

kbannon wrote:

Try reading the first line from the ISPCC page again - "Currently there is no outright ban on physical punishment of children by their parents/caregivers in Ireland"

I suggest you make the ISPCC aware of the 2001 act they seem to be ignorant of it.

Dionysis · 05-03-2017 09:57PM

Maybe I'm not understanding this but some of you could explain/answer the following for me please;
1. Did the religious order murder/kill any children?
2. Did the revligious order let die children of single mothers?
3. Was this a children's home, where kids were badly beaten, and died?
4. Is this an unmarked grave rather than burying the children in marked graves?
5. Was there s reason why they were buried here?
6. What illegal activity actually went on?

Bredabe · 05-03-2017 09:57PM

Going Forward wrote: »

Does anyone know if there were similar mother and baby "homes" in other RC regions/countries in that part of the 20th century?

Is our brutality uniquely Irish?

There were homes like this all over, I heard of ructions in Austria for similar findings, an oz friend of mine told me a family member was in a M&B there in the '60's, the majority put there by parents scared for the girls reputation and their own reputation in the area, those girls were forced to give their babies up for adoption. Tho may homes were in the country and most were unregulated. The attitude was universal, mostly the solutions were the same.

pilly · 05-03-2017 10:00PM

Dionysis wrote:

Maybe I'm not understanding this but some of you could explain/answer the following for me please; 1. Did the religious order murder/kill any children? 2. Did the revligious order let die children of single mothers? 3. Was this a children's home, where kids were badly beaten, and died? 4. Is this an unmarked grave rather than burying the children in marked graves? 5. Was there s reason why they were buried here? 6. What illegal activity actually went on?

I suggest you do some research of your own before you list off your asinine questions. Have you read any newspapers today?

nhunter100 · 05-03-2017 10:01PM

Dionysis wrote:

Maybe I'm not understanding this but some of you could explain/answer the following for me please; 1. Did the religious order murder/kill any children? 2. Did the revligious order let die children of single mothers? 3. Was this a children's home, where kids were badly beaten, and died? 4. Is this an unmarked grave rather than burying the children in marked graves? 5. Was there s reason why they were buried here? 6. What illegal activity actually went on?

So you have no access to Television news or Newspapers?

Fleawuss · 05-03-2017 10:11PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Spot on, there is now an attitude that the Church was somehow alien to us, imposed on us, and thus we can appropriate blame and say it was "them". We embraced it, we gave it the power it enjoyed, the Church reflected Irish society as perfectly as a mirror.

And there's the wriggling out of it. There's the refusal to face the fact that the Church made society that way. Society was a mirror of the Church's twisted sexual mores and not the other way round.

BorneTobyWilde · 05-03-2017 10:16PM

Maybe the Irish are just cowards who cannot stick up for what's right. I mean during WW2 they just sat back and said we are on no ones side, go Hilter, go kill those Jews, we won't stop you. Any Irish that left to fight for Britain were treated like scum on return.
Even to this day we stay neutral, go ISIS ! We won't let US use our airport to refuel.
Irish are cowards with no bottle. They are sheep, all BAAAA ! AND NO BITE.
They talk among themselves about issues that affect them but stand up to no one. It's why we have such high car tax, vrt tax,fuel tax how many more taxes can you put on a car, o wait NCT LEVY, any more, we'll come up with something else.
BAAAAA ! BAAAA !

Fleawuss · 05-03-2017 10:17PM

kbannon wrote: »

I make absolutely no apologies for the different churches. I loathe the RCC and what it has done. I've already clearly stated this a few times on this thread.
It's a despicable organisation run by despicable men.
Similarly the protestant churches fared not much better in looking after the vulnerable.

My point still stands. People stood by and let this happen. They knew what was going on.

Your point isn't THE point. THE point is why. The answer is fear of the power of the RCC and fear of its condemnation and its poisonous corruption of the state. You don't like the why at all. It's all the iphones fault.

Going Forward · 05-03-2017 10:23PM

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Maybe this book might explain what times were like back then to people.

https://thedublinreader.wordpress.com/tag/sean-lemass/

The church was the state back then and McQuaid was our ruler.

Bruce Arnold's The Irish Gulag is worth a read too, it gives a reading of responsibility for these types of institutions shared equally between church and state. Each served the others purposes.

https://www.amazon.com/Irish-Gulag-Bruce-Arnold/dp/0717146146

archer22 · 05-03-2017 10:28PM

Fleawuss wrote: »

And there's the wriggling out of it. There's the refusal to face the fact that the Church made society that way. Society was a mirror of the Church's twisted sexual mores and not the other way round.

But society wanted the Catholic Church, the English tried long and hard to stamp the catholic church out.
The Irish people would not let go of it, no threats or inducements could get them to abandon it.
Things got much worse with independence, then the first thing the Irish done was virtually to hand their country over to the Catholic Church lock stock and barrel.

Dionysis · 05-03-2017 10:43PM

pilly wrote: »

I suggest you do some research of your own before you list off your asinine questions. Have you read any newspapers today?

I didn't realise that asking questions would offend you in such a way as to justify your ignorant response. You being the keeper of the boards, and who has the right to post threads and what they may or may not ask.

Dionysis · 05-03-2017 10:46PM

archer22 wrote: »

But society wanted the Catholic Church, the English tried long and hard to stamp the catholic church out.
The Irish people would not let go of it, no threats or inducements could get them to abandon it.
Things got much worse with independence, then the first thing the Irish done was virtually to hand their country over to the Catholic Church lock stock and barrel.

Exactly, like government, you get what you deserve. Shor wasn't nobody but the government responsible for the Celtic tiger downturn. The people didn't borrow and dpend the money. The same people didn't, having blamed the govt, just vote FF practically back into power after one election. Reality is, the Irish people empowered these religious orders, and are as to blame as anyone.

jameorahiely · 05-03-2017 10:48PM

archer22 wrote: »

But society wanted the Catholic Church, the English tried long and hard to stamp the catholic church out.
The Irish people would not let go of it, no threats or inducements could get them to abandon it.
Things got much worse with independence, then the first thing the Irish done was virtually to hand their country over to the Catholic Church lock stock and barrel.

You do know England had it's own mother and baby homes where over half a million women were forced to give up their babies for adoption? Most of them run by the church of England? So to describe England as some sort of bastion of goodness is nonsense. Canada, new zea land, Australia all English colonies, all had these homes.

05-03-2017 10:54PM

Fleawuss wrote: »

And there's the wriggling out of it. There's the refusal to face the fact that the Church made society that way. Society was a mirror of the Church's twisted sexual mores and not the other way round.

But the Church was banned. We fought to get it back in the 1800s. It didn't impose on us, we demanded it and paid for every single penny if it. The Vatican didn't enslave us, we looked to it to free ourselves.

smurgen · 05-03-2017 10:55PM

Dionysis wrote: »

Exactly, like government, you get what you deserve. Shor wasn't nobody but the government responsible for the Celtic tiger downturn. The people didn't borrow and dpend the money. The same people didn't, having blamed the govt, just vote FF practically back into power after one election. Reality is, the Irish people empowered these religious orders, and are as to blame as anyone.

Nonesense do you think people would have allowed children's bodies to be put in a septic tank en masse at the time?please explain your answer.do you think people wluld have allowed their relatives to be put into these homes if they thought there was a 68% mortality rate?i heard today that 1100 kids were put into that home and 798 passed away.anyone saying that is normal is warped.the church shrouded what went on in these homes in mystery.

pilly · 05-03-2017 11:01PM

Dionysis wrote:

I didn't realise that asking questions would offend you in such a way as to justify your ignorant response. You being the keeper of the boards, and who has the right to post threads and what they may or may not ask.

Not offended at all, just irritated that your posts asks questions that have been answered in a lot of ways since Friday.

Do some reading and you'll find the answers.

Summer wind · 05-03-2017 11:28PM

The nuns and priests that treated these little children and their mothers in such an evil and vicious way seem to have been completely inhuman. What kind of monsters were they. Those poor children never had a chance. How could anyone be so cruel. It's like the plot of a horror movie. To think that these priests and nuns were so revered and had so much power makes me feel sick.

Going Forward · 05-03-2017 11:52PM

Deleted User wrote: »

But the Church was banned. We fought to get it back in the 1800s. It didn't impose on us, we demanded it and paid for every single penny if it. The Vatican didn't enslave us, we looked to it to free ourselves.

Faith is a strange thing. And so is oppression.

An interesting mix for an uneducated, isolated, backward people.

The eternal reward made sense of the daily grind, and hardships were sacrifices.

Fleawuss · 05-03-2017 11:55PM

archer22 wrote: »

But society wanted the Catholic Church, the English tried long and hard to stamp the catholic church out.
The Irish people would not let go of it, no threats or inducements could get them to abandon it.
Things got much worse with independence, then the first thing the Irish done was virtually to hand their country over to the Catholic Church lock stock and barrel.

Extraordinary version of history. The defeated Gaelic clans remained RC after the Refofmation while the invader largely became the Protestant. Religion and identity became synonymous. But the dogmas and morals of the RC church weren't formulated among the Irish clans. The Augustinian version of human sexuality and the Thomist philosophy did not originate in Ireland. I mention these specifically to help you identify the roots of the problem in independent Ireland: a twisted view of human sexuality and a propensity for linguistic gymnastics among the hierarchy with mental reservations. Take s bow Connell.

What alternative religions could Irish people turn to? Baptized at birth, educated in RC schools, under the ne temere decree on mixed marriages. You have some imaginary view that poor people had some choice. Choice is a Recent thing in Ireland and bitterly opposed by the remnants of the organization that have poisoned this country. Stop the obfuscation and just face the truth: the RC church created the poisonous situation we have in Tuam. It's twisted sexuality, its dominance even of state bodies and the police. It's past time to have it slide off the page of history.

"Significant" numbers of babies remains actually found

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