The Lingering Savagery of 1798

ClovenHoof · 01-03-2017 12:06AM #1

I know this is not a history forum, but I think it is an interesting subject which does not get enough attention. An anyway, I am venting here more than trying to look clever.

When I was a kid in school we did a musical play about the 1798 United Irishmen uprising and it was all very romantic and patriotic. Later I read that it was "a different kind of Irish revolution" in that Catholics and Protestants fought side by side in the spirit of the Enlightenment.

In recent times I have looked at the event in microcosm and what stuck me was the absolute savagery of the 1798 Rising. Far from the romantic ecumenical romance of the event, the sectarian atrocities committed by both sides is almost impossible to fathom. It was Ireland's 'Balkan War' in terms of this. Entire regions would be effectively sterilized of Catholics or Protestants depending on who was winning at the time.

The brutality and lack of human rights for prisoners is another factor. At the Battle of Tara so many were killed that numbers are unknown. It might have been as high at 10,000 on a small patch of land around the churchyard. All captured rebels were disemboweled and left to die in agony overnight with their entrails strewn across the hill before all being dumped in a mass grave beside the Lia Fail.

Even today on a social and psychological level communities have not healed. In parts of south Sligo there is an unspoken sectarianism to this day which is a results of atrocities on both sides. But most of all in parts of rural Wexford there are deeply insular communities which are like something out of the middle ages and deeply distrusting of outsiders. All because of the 'romance' of 1798. They are still ****ed up by it.

Reading about this time reminded me of what a ****ty history (at times) we have in this country and how the scars of war are neither smothered in a romantic backstory, or healed by the passing in centuries.

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly · 01-03-2017 12:44AM

ClovenHoof wrote: »

there is an unspoken sectarianism to this day which is a results of atrocities on both sides. But most of all in parts of rural Wexford there are deeply insular communities which are like something out of the middle ages and deeply distrusting of outsiders. All because of the 'romance' of 1798. They are still ****ed up by it.

How dare you insult my intelligence with such utterly unsubstantiated twaddle.

ClovenHoof · 01-03-2017 02:52AM

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly wrote: »

How dare you insult my intelligence with such utterly unsubstantiated twaddle.

You're not well are you?

Arghus · 01-03-2017 03:36AM

I was there at the time and it didn't seem too bad in all honesty.

01-03-2017 03:53AM

ClovenHoof wrote: »

The brutality and lack of human rights for prisoners is another factor. At the Battle of Tara so many were killed that numbers are unknown. It might have been as high at 10,000 on a small patch of land around the churchyard. All captured rebels were disemboweled and left to die in agony overnight with their entrails strewn across the hill before all being dumped in a mass grave beside the Lia Fail.

...But most of all in parts of rural Wexford there are deeply insular communities which are like something out of the middle ages and deeply distrusting of outsiders. All because of the 'romance' of 1798. They are still ****ed up by it.

No denying 1798 was savage, barns filled with people and burned, babies pitchforked etc., and the numbers that died in Wexford were enormous.

But have to question the figure of 10k dying in any one battle. I can't imagine there'd have been anything like that even on the field of battle, outside Wexford.

And the whole "Wexforders hate outsiders to this day" conclusion. Hmmmm...

Noddyholder · 01-03-2017 04:36AM

Intresting ok OP, just on the Sligo Wexford would you have any links or evidence that this is the case today ?

Galwayguy35 · 01-03-2017 09:14AM

War is brutal so I don't see how the OP is surprised.

Roger Hassenforder · 01-03-2017 09:18AM

Those Wexford lads would want to start getting over the Kilkenny lads pissing in the powder, and just move on.
Worse things happen at sea.

sjb25 · 01-03-2017 09:24AM

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Those Wexford lads would want to start getting over the Kilkenny lads pissing in the powder, and just move on.
quote]

NEVER!!!! If there was a shower worse than them yeomen 'twas them traitors

Ted111 · 01-03-2017 09:30AM

A simple auld salad is all they were eating.
Sitting in the middle of a field.
Eating a salad.
Maybe a bottle of red lemonade.
Some tomatoes. Bit of lettuce.
A bit of ham.

sjb25 · 01-03-2017 09:32AM

Ted111 wrote: »

A simple auld salad is all they were eating.
Sitting in the middle of a field.
Eating a salad.
Maybe a bottle of red lemonade.
Some tomatoes. Bit of lettuce.
A bit of ham.

Basterds

fizzypish · 01-03-2017 09:38AM

Heard this screamed during a tipp v wexford game in the stand (families, kids etc...) as a young lad. "Only 2 kinds of people in Wexford. Strawberries and K#$%^&*# and I don't see no ****ing strawberries". Tipp was winning too so it seemed a little unnecessary.....

realdanbreen · 01-03-2017 09:43AM

ClovenHoof wrote: »

I know this is not a history forum, but I think it is an interesting subject which does not get enough attention. An anyway, I am venting here more than trying to look clever.

When I was a kid in school we did a musical play about the 1798 United Irishmen uprising and it was all very romantic and patriotic. Later I read that it was "a different kind of Irish revolution" in that Catholics and Protestants fought side by side in the spirit of the Enlightenment.

In recent times I have looked at the event in microcosm and what stuck me was the absolute savagery of the 1798 Rising. Far from the romantic ecumenical romance of the event, the sectarian atrocities committed by both sides is almost impossible to fathom. It was Ireland's 'Balkan War' in terms of this. Entire regions would be effectively sterilized of Catholics or Protestants depending on who was winning at the time.

The brutality and lack of human rights for prisoners is another factor. At the Battle of Tara so many were killed that numbers are unknown. It might have been as high at 10,000 on a small patch of land around the churchyard. All captured rebels were disemboweled and left to die in agony overnight with their entrails strewn across the hill before all being dumped in a mass grave beside the Lia Fail.

Even today on a social and psychological level communities have not healed. In parts of south Sligo there is an unspoken sectarianism to this day which is a results of atrocities on both sides. But most of all in parts of rural Wexford there are deeply insular communities which are like something out of the middle ages and deeply distrusting of outsiders. All because of the 'romance' of 1798. They are still ****ed up by it.

Reading about this time reminded me of what a ****ty history (at times) we have in this country and how the scars of war are neither smothered in a romantic backstory, or healed by the passing in centuries.

You can see how Davey Fitzgerald fits right in there in Wexford!

razorblunt · 01-03-2017 09:46AM

Rule number 1: don't attack cannon lines if all you're holding is a pitchfork.

murpho999 · 01-03-2017 09:52AM

So where is the savagery lingering from 219 years ago?

Mini850 · 01-03-2017 09:56AM

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Those Wexford lads would want to start getting over the Kilkenny lads pissing in the powder, and just move on.
Worse things happen at sea.

Till the day she died, my gran wouldn't go to Kilkenny as it was a "Tan" town/city.

She died in the late 80's though, so more than 20 years ago, but I do still hear it now and again.........

aidan24326 · 01-03-2017 10:15AM

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Even today on a social and psychological level communities have not healed. In parts of south Sligo there is an unspoken sectarianism to this day which is a results of atrocities on both sides. But most of all in parts of rural Wexford there are deeply insular communities which are like something out of the middle ages and deeply distrusting of outsiders. All because of the 'romance' of 1798. They are still ****ed up by it.

Ah here now, you're telling us they're still fcuked up by stuff that happened 220 years ago??? Way before anyone they've ever known was even born? Time to move on I think.

heebusjeebus · 01-03-2017 10:22AM

Ted111 wrote: »

A simple auld salad is all they were eating.
Sitting in the middle of a field.
Eating a salad.
Maybe a bottle of red lemonade.
Some tomatoes. Bit of lettuce.
A bit of ham.

bang bang!

Noddyholder · 01-03-2017 10:24AM

murpho999 wrote: »

So where is the savagery lingering from 219 years ago?

Courtown on a long weekend :-):D

Your Face · 01-03-2017 10:26AM

I remember when war was all tickling and chasing.
Or was that love.

biko · 01-03-2017 11:50AM

It wasn't half as bad as the lingerie incident describe in "A Christmassy Ted"

Roger Hassenforder · 01-03-2017 12:08PM

heebusjeebus wrote: »

bang bang!

Put him up agin a wall in the middle of a field
One shot

qm1bv4p8i92aoj · 01-03-2017 12:24PM

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Put him up agin a wall in the middle of a field
One shot

What they didn't do to that family.

Basterds.

RicePat · 01-03-2017 12:40PM

Deleted User wrote: »

No denying 1798 was savage, barns filled with people and burned, babies pitchforked etc., and the numbers that died in Wexford were enormous.

But have to question the figure of 10k dying in any one battle. I can't imagine there'd have been anything like that even on the field of battle, outside Wexford.

And the whole "Wexforders hate outsiders to this day" conclusion. Hmmmm...

Reading about the whole pitchcapping thing always stuck with me. Serious nasty business

RicePat · 01-03-2017 12:41PM

Your Face wrote: »

I remember when war was all tickling and chasing.
Or was that love.

There's plenty would have you believe that's what the War of Independence was like

whisky_galore · 01-03-2017 12:57PM

Mini850 wrote: »

Till the day she died, my gran wouldn't go to Kilkenny as it was a "Tan" town/city.

She died in the late 80's though, so more than 20 years ago, but I do still hear it now and again.........

TBF that was a generation that believed concrete statues moved if you prayed really, really hard enough.
Think most folks now have gotten over themselves.

topper75 · 01-03-2017 01:05PM

Deleted User wrote: »

And the whole "Wexforders hate outsiders to this day" conclusion. Hmmmm...

Been down there as an outsider from Limerick.

Beautiful countryside. Beautiful people. Had the craic with all - quare surnames and normal surnames alike :pac: Never treated with anything but respect.

By God but ye have an awful amount of quare surnames down there to this day.

The clue to understanding the OP's issue is simply that the 1798 rebellion was a war. I don't know of any pretty wars in reality. All of them have some atrocities alongside some heroism. And all wars have some perceivable lasting effects through the ages to some extent.

Nothing to see here.

Guy:Incognito · 01-03-2017 01:13PM

topper75 wrote: »

I don't know of any pretty wars in reality.

The war of the roses? That one sound as nice .

SEPT 23 1989 · 01-03-2017 01:14PM

Its a good weekend in Enniscorthy with the reenactments on Vinegar Hill and on the streets for anyone has hasnt done it

Coffee Fulled Runner · 01-03-2017 01:49PM

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Even today on a social and psychological level communities have not healed. In parts of south Sligo there is an unspoken sectarianism to this day which is a results of atrocities on both sides. .

Total rubbish there is nothing like that in south Sligo but feel free to back up your claim.

Beanntraigheach · 01-03-2017 02:09PM

ClovenHoof wrote: »

........

Even today on a social and psychological level communities have not healed. In parts of south Sligo there is an unspoken sectarianism to this day which is a results of atrocities on both sides. But most of all in parts of rural Wexford there are deeply insular communities which are like something out of the middle ages and deeply distrusting of outsiders. All because of the 'romance' of 1798. They are still ****ed up by it.
........

Name them and tell us more.

The Lingering Savagery of 1798

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