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Find my past vs Ancestry vs Roostireland versions of the RC parish registers

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    #32
    tabbey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    pinkypinky wrote: »
    Except then why is FMP giving it away free (other than to put Rootsireland out of business)?

    Is FMP not just giving it free for one week?


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    #33
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    pinkypinky wrote: »
    Except then why is FMP giving it away free (other than to put Rootsireland out of business)?

    Ancestry & FMP don’t give a fiddlers about RootsIreland – Roots probably is not even a blip on the limit of their radar horizon, nothing to worry about, just look at the internal politics in RottsIreland and the IFHF. Those are head in the sand bodies, parish pump protectionists fighting turf war politics. They had their opportunity but lost it. With the newly transcribed Parish records the genealogical train has left the station and RootsIreland ain’t on it. Maybe it has (had?) a chance if their search functions were better than Ancestry’s, but that is not the case and looks unlikely that they would ever get their act together.

    Ancestry/FMP will get usage of the new Parish Register database up, start charging and an increase in their corporate value will fall into place. They also will obtain economies of scale. Quite possibly Ancestry already has first right of refusal on buying FMP (I would also have looked for that!)
    Ancestry state they have more than 2 million subscribers. They also have AncestryDNA, AncestryProGenealogists, Family Tree Maker, Fold3 and Newspapers.com. That generates big cashflow. They are way out in front of everyone.....

    FMP / Findmypast – (previously DC Thomson Family History) is still owned by DCT via Brightsolid, a data storage facility leaning towards Cloud computing. They also have links with Scotland’s people. I’d guess that FMP could be sold off as it does not have much in common with the parent’s core business- that probably is why it was put into Brightsolid. However, FMP really has a poor image for customer service (just google it), I’ve had nightmare dealings with them that would warrant complaints to several (consumer & financial) agencies if I had the time to fight over the odd €15 or failing to cancel direct debits. It was so technically impossible for them to give me a refund they gave me a couple of free months instead.

    The only other show in town is MyHeritage and is worth watching. Israel-based, some powerful venture capital money behind them. Although they also own FamilyTreeBuilder, World Vital Records and Geni.com, they need more "numbers" to achieve critical mass and will either acquire or be acquired…..

    Small local or even small international companies have no future in what essentially is a big numbers game.Survivors will need to develop and exploit a specific niche and get remunerated for it - that is hard in genealogy, when so much is available free of charge.


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    #34
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,637 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    I actually think FMP are trying to compete with Ancestry. They don't yet, especially in the US, but they're cheaper and more useful for Irish records at the moment.

    According to Claire Santry, they're giving this particular record set away free forever. The rest of the Irish records are just free for a week.

    I agree that Rootsireland have their head in the sand, but as one of the only Irish companies in the game, I would be sorry to see them go. They do still have unique records, even if they are only transcriptions.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #35
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    pinkypinky wrote: »
    I actually think FMP are trying to compete with Ancestry. They don't yet, especially in the US....
    If they are trying, they have no hope. There is no way FMP could take on Ancestry in the US and make money. There comes a time when competing is neither practicable nor profitable. Even if FMP were competing, why would Ancestry then give them an edge by allowing access to the BM parish records?

    A strategy to follow is to be the biggest in your own market and the best in difficult markets. That way you gain credibility and cash – people do not mind paying a little over the odds for a premium product.
    pinkypinky wrote: »
    According to Claire Santry, they're giving this particular record set away free forever.
    I don’t doubt CS’s comments/integrity on what she has written, but I cannot see that happening.


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    #36
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,637 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    I agree it's surprising, but it would be as big a PR disaster as the 1939 Register launch if they retract the free forever promise on this.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #37
    FURET
    Closed Accounts Posts: 685 ✭✭✭FURET


    I just saw this report on RTE.ie: http://www.rte.ie/news/player/2016/0301/20944135-ten-million-historical-records-from-catholic-parishes-published-online/

    Bizarrely the report doesn't give the website URL - what's the web address so that I can search this database?


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    #38
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,637 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    http://search.findmypast.ie/search-world-Records/ireland-roman-catholic-parish-baptisms
    http://search.findmypast.ie/search-world-Records/ireland-roman-catholic-parish-burials
    http://search.findmypast.ie/search-world-Records/ireland-roman-catholic-parish-marriages

    Also on Ancestry, Rootsireland and without transcription on the National Library's site.

    ETA: I just watched that report. It's hilarious. Showing the microfilms and actually implying people were using microfilm until this went online.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #39
    shanew
    Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    pinkypinky wrote: »
    ....According to Claire Santry, they're giving this particular record set away free forever. The rest of the Irish records are just free for a week.....

    thought their wording was a little unclear - that's the way it read me too, but was not 100% sure


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    #40
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    According to an email from Ireland Reaching Out –

    FMP has free access to indexed Catholic Parish Registers and their entire Irish collection of records until the 7th of March 2016

    Ancestry has free access to indexed Catholic Parish Registers and entire Irish collection of records for the whole month of March

    (my emphasis)


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    #41
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,637 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    That's weird.

    It does say on FMP's blog post about the launch that the Catholic parish registers are free forever. I guess we shall see on Tuesday!

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #42
    shanew
    Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    pinkypinky wrote: »
    That's weird.

    It does say on FMP's blog post about the launch that the Catholic parish registers are free forever. I guess we shall see on Tuesday!

    and in the email on the 4th March

    '..the registers form one of the most important record collections for Irish family history and will be free to search forever on Findmypast...'


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    #43
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    pinkypinky wrote: »
    That's weird.

    It does say on FMP's blog post about the launch that the Catholic parish registers are free forever. I guess we shall see on Tuesday!

    It says it's 'free to search' forever...We will probably find that the search results will contain minimal info and a pay-for clickthrough.

    As an aside, I have ignored FMP for the last few days because their search function is so awful - inevitably I'm just getting the GRO references, no images, and nothing from the registers. Also, when I do find something I get a 'Subscribe' message. They have looked at this before, saying it was a problem with my cache so I cleared that , no improvement; next they said there could be a problem caused by my IP address because I've had more than one account (.co.uk and .ie, where certain screens would default to the different accounts), so I should close both and they would create a new one, but all my saved stuff would disappear as would the tick marks on stuff I've looked at.

    Ancestry might not be great, some seach results are quite 'off' but it works and is more intuitive.


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    #44
    RGM
    Registered Users Posts: 484 ✭✭RGM


    pedroeibar1 wrote: »
    According to an email from Ireland Reaching Out –

    FMP has free access to indexed Catholic Parish Registers and their entire Irish collection of records until the 7th of March 2016

    I read that as: The entire collection of Irish records is free until March 7th. The registers will be free after that, but the entire collection of Irish records will not.


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    #45
    VirginiaB
    Registered Users Posts: 400 ✭✭VirginiaB


    The indexing is very flawed but far better than none at all. I have been using Ancestry as I find it easier to search than FTM.

    One success story is finding a woman w my uncommon family surname married in one parish in 1841, which I did last July. With the indexed parish records, wild card searches and the NLI's very helpful map of adjoining parishes, I was able to find the baptism of her three children in a neighboring parish. In only one was her surname spelled right in the index. That parish even provided townlands. Then with NYC directories on Fold3, I found her and two of the children in Manhattan in 1850. I was able to confirm her as my gt gt grandfather's sister thru city directories and subsequent research in newspaper obits. I could never have found any of this without those parish records and the index.


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    #46
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    I agree and in fairness where the transcription search really stands out as helpful is on locating entries that are out of sync. for date or event - for e.g. when searching the Registers on microfilm in NLI I've found baptism entries mixed with marriages. In the records of St. Mary's in Cork for several years in the 1840's entries are very random, several pages of jumbled dates, where the clerk has gone back a few pages to use the left side of the register. I was really happy to find an 1843 marriage that was entered pages away from the 'correct' place. It was a very faint image, random position and I definitely must have passed over it before on NLI searches.

    For your US family, if they were in NYC in 1850 it would be worth having a look for them in Tyler Anbinder's book on the Five Points. I got some great info in it from the Emigrant Savings Bank records.


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    #47
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,637 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    I have clarified with FMP: the index and images will remain free but users will need to register an account (without payment details) to use it.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #48
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    Thanks for that info Pinky, but TBH it's not much use. I've really given up on FMP this time. I tried again today on the parish registers; after I logged on to FMP and did a search, it defaulted to findmypast.au (Australia!) and then wanted a "pay" subscription. Other entry points (various links from this forum and elsewhere) ended up with no success and various other results. I really have to wonder about custome care in FMP (none of those is mine).

    The two "Big Things" in corporate governance at the moment are (a) cyber risk and (b) reputational risk. Whatever about the former, FMP/Enneclann obviously have no idea of the latter. Were I an investor in a geno company I would insist on it having a presence on this forum to respond to criticism and take appropriate action. I'd guess FMP do not even have a customer focus group in Ireland! Clearly they do not care. Shame on the management!


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    #49
    tabbey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    pinkypinky wrote: »
    That's weird.

    It does say on FMP's blog post about the launch that the Catholic parish registers are free forever. I guess we shall see on Tuesday!

    When I first read free forever, I assumed it was an error.
    Now that it seems to be intentional, I wish them all the best.

    I am sceptical however about anything being forever, technology and corporate bodies are changing so rapidly, that both can become obsolete almost overnight.


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    #50
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,637 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    pedroeibar1 wrote: »
    The two "Big Things" in corporate governance at the moment are (a) cyber risk and (b) reputational risk. Whatever about the former, FMP/Enneclann obviously have no idea of the latter. Were I an investor in a geno company I would insist on it having a presence on this forum to respond to criticism and take appropriate action. I'd guess FMP do not even have a customer focus group in Ireland! Clearly they do not care. Shame on the management!

    I think all of that stuff would be managed from the UK office - all publicity, etc certainly is. Those reviews on that site are quite poor. While I'm not defending them, they did respond to the mass of negative publicity surrounding their decision to charge for the 1939 register and it is now free to annual subscribers.

    Only a few companies have a presence on boards - some of the telecoms? - and I'm not sure it really works the way they'd hoped. It's just an another avenue for complaint.

    ETA: Ancestry's reviews on that site are not great either.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #51
    montgo
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭montgo


    FMP is not working for me now.


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    #52
    mickmackey1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,288 ✭✭✭mickmackey1


    Working fine here, when signed in.


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    #53
    VirginiaB
    Registered Users Posts: 400 ✭✭VirginiaB


    I have had a lot of bad things, all deserved, to say about rootsireland.ie thru the years and stopped using them at all when the rates got so high. But I may have to swallow my pride as their search function for Catholic parish records, flawed as it is, is so much better than the index on Ancestry/FMP.

    Yesterday for example, I searched for the marriage of Hugh Towers. I already had the rootsireland.ie transcription but wanted to see the image on Ancestry for any further information. Not there. I did find his bride--and there he was, as Fugh Fowers. But I would never have found the record if I had not already purchased the rootsireland.ie data with the wife's name. If they have any sense, they should lower their subscription price and heavily advertise their superior index.

    Currently, it is $142 for an annual subscription here in the US. Make it $99 and it will attract enough additional people to make up for the loss on the lowered price--especially those among us already paying for Ancestry and/or FMP world subscriptions. My two cents.


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    #54
    Hermy
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,330 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    While I agree with you entirely on the deserved criticism of Roots Ireland might I suggest that if you have the transcript of a catholic parish record and need to see the original image you can visit the NLI website for free.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #55
    VirginiaB
    Registered Users Posts: 400 ✭✭VirginiaB


    You are right of course. The advantage of Ancestry is that I can quickly save it to my tree there. But I suppose I could save the NLI image to my hard drive and then to my Ancestry tree, probably a better plan.


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    #56
    tabbey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    Although I have a subscription to FMP, and cannot do without it, I have to agree rootsireland is the most user friendly and successful for searching the parish records.


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    #57
    DamoRed
    Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭DamoRed


    As a newcomer who has been using a combination of Irishgenealogy.ie, Familysearch.org and a 14 day free trial on Ancestry with mainly positive results, I've just started looking on FMP with known results for reference.

    On my mother's side, a parish in Dublin, the results are very good. However, on my father's side, a neighbouring parish, but in Kildare, it's a disaster zone, with zero results coming up after quite a number of different searches. I kept going as my curiosity was piqued to see how long it would take to get a hit.

    Thankfully, I've already got those results, otherwise I'd be feeling pretty cheesed off and disillusioned if I was depending only on FMP.


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    #58
    Ninjakettle
    Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭Ninjakettle


    Hi - is it possible on any of these sites to search for Sponsor (godparent) names?


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    #59
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,637 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Irishgenealogy brings up anyone on a record with the name you search for, so definitely works there.

    FMP seems to be down atm but I don't think it works the same way as Irishgenealogy.

    ETA: got it working. No, the sponsor isn't an indexed category.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #60
    montgo
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭montgo


    Well the good news that Roots Ireland have finally introduced the search facility for sponsor.


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    #61
    hblock21
    Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭hblock21


    pinkypinky wrote: »
    Irishgenealogy brings up anyone on a record with the name you search for, so definitely works there.
    Really? How?


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