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The urgent need to reduce the cost of labour in Ireland.

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Comments

  • #92
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,853 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    The calm before the storm.

    The storm you have (wrongly) predicted for how many years now? :rolleyes:


  • #93
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Allinall wrote: »
    What makes you think hyperinflation is imminent?

    The ECB have a tight hold on interest rates, which are directly related to inflation.

    Your posts make no sense.
    The ECB sets artificial interest rates. Real interest rates however are a naturally occurring phenomenon and the longer they are hidden by the imposition of artificial rates the greater the imbalance. Think of it as an earthquake waiting to happen. I believe the BIS refer to this as an "interest rate snap back".

    If this happen later this year as I suspect, the consequences for the world economy will be frightening.


  • #94
    Allinall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,258 ✭✭✭Allinall


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    The ECB sets artificial interest rates. Real interest rates however are a naturally occurring phenomenon and the longer they are hidden by the imposition of artificial rates the greater the imbalance. Think of it as an earthquake waiting to happen. I believe the BIS refer to this as an "interest rate snap back".

    If this happen later this year as I suspect, the consequences for the world economy will be frightening.

    But it won't happen, because as you readily accept, the ECB sets the rates.


  • #95
    Arthur Daley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,698 ✭✭✭Arthur Daley


    There has already been massive asset price inflation (thanks to qe in my opinion) in everything from house prices to stock prices to fine art and classic cars prices.

    Govt. likes us to think sure it's grand the price of bread or milk is stable or falling and official inflation is flat. But their ramping of housing costs for first time buyers and renters is an evil. It became a necessary evil thanks to fianna fails governance and property ramping 1997 to 2009. The hand was forced, the die was cast.

    But asking workers for pay cuts and saving twopence halpenny shopping in aldi and lidl will only go so far towards making inroads to the biggest cost in most peoples lives: ramped property prices.


  • #96
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

    Not everyone should take a pay cut then? Just the public sector?

    I can't imagine which sector the OP works in... Maybe the 'private sector generally'?
    There also would be natural downward pressure on above average private sector salaries as the cost of living falls. However, can`t imagine a law that says you cannot pay your employee more than X amount.


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  • #97
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    tabby aspreme wrote: »
    If everyone took a 50% pay cut in the morning , how long would it take for the cost of living to drop by 50% , so people could manage on there reduced wages, and what would happen in the meantime
    If everyone took a 50% pay cut, the growth in employment and the demand for employees would be so rapid, pay would begin to rise again to meet the falling prices. The real difficulty would be people committed to high mortgage payments. They should have been more savvy. Anyway, by evicting them, the houses would be sold cheaply to people who are presently renting.


  • #98
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,021 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    realitykeeper wrote:
    There also would be natural downward pressure on above average private sector salaries as the cost of living falls. However, can`t imagine a law that says you cannot pay your employee more than X amount.

    Natural downward pressure, eventually. Like I said, the OP should take a pay cut but only after everyone else takes one first.

    You can't imagine a maximum wage, so what about the maximum ratio of highest to lowest paid. We're talking radical changes here, so how about we slash the minimum wage and you get a pay ratio of maximum 5 times of the least paid person in your company - naturally that wouldn't work because this thread was about cutting other people's wages, not the OP's.


  • #99
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Allinall wrote: »
    But it won't happen, because as you readily accept, the ECB sets the rates.
    Yes but if confidence is lost in the fiat currencies by say, the rest of the world, then the digits sent to them in return for stuff will need many more zeros added on to every order. The ECB will be forced to raise interest rates to take account of reality.


  • #100
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Arthur Daley wrote: »
    There has already been massive asset price inflation (thanks to qe in my opinion) in everything from house prices to stock prices to fine art and classic cars prices.

    Govt. likes us to think sure it's grand the price of bread or milk is stable or falling and official inflation is flat. But their ramping of housing costs for first time buyers and renters is an evil. It became a necessary evil thanks to fianna fails governance and property ramping 1997 to 2009. The hand was forced, the die was cast.
    The madness of the Bertie Ahern era is undeniable. But, later in 2008 the banks should have been let fail. Or to quote Ms Merkel "let everyone clean up their own s**t" The taxpayer should not have been prevailed upon.


  • #101
    Owryan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Owryan


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    If everyone took a 50% pay cut, the growth in employment and the demand for employees would be so rapid, pay would begin to rise again to meet the falling prices. The real difficulty would be people committed to high mortgage payments. They should have been more savvy. Anyway, by evicting them, the houses would be sold cheaply to people who are presently renting.


    Why would employment rise if everyone took a paycut? Then the quandary of how rising wages would mean lower prices, is it not usually the opposite?

    But what really shows the ironic nature or your name, you want to force people that have expensive mortgages, no messing around by seeing if they can afford them, into homelessness. Just so people who are renting can buy cheap homes.

    So where do these newly evicted go? Why would their homes be sold cheaply if there are expensive mortgages attached to them? Why would I continue to work for half pay when prices haven't been cut? How will businesses be forced to cut prices? People have savings, so this will impact on prices. Will peoples savings be confiscated?


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  • #102
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    You can't imagine a maximum wage, so what about the maximum ratio of highest to lowest paid.
    That is up to market demand. Let the markets decide what an employee is worth.

    I do absolutely concede that CEOs regularly resort to creative accounting to swell their earnings. Whenever you hear of a large company, be they Tesco, Shell or whatever saying profits were up 24% on the year before then the new CEO says "that was me adding value to the company", you gotta laugh.

    All that happened was the outgoing CEO under declared last years profit (or pre declared next years losses) and the new CEO can then declared last years profits as this years, to justify his hysterical pay hike to shareholders.


  • #103
    Mancomb Seepgood
    Closed Accounts Posts: 417 ✭✭Mancomb Seepgood


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    If everyone took a 50% pay cut, the growth in employment and the demand for employees would be so rapid, pay would begin to rise again to meet the falling prices. The real difficulty would be people committed to high mortgage payments. They should have been more savvy. Anyway, by evicting them, the houses would be sold cheaply to people who are presently renting.

    You plan to save the economy by destroying it then,along with the livelihoods and living standards of countless people. Whatever about the export sector,cross the board 50% pay cuts would wipe out domestic consumption.This is a daft proposal to solve a problem that only seems to exist in your head.


  • #104
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,021 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    realitykeeper wrote:
    That is up to market demand. Let the markets decide what an employee is worth.

    Isn't that exactly what's happening now? With an additional safety net to avoid the most vulnerable from living in penury and dropping out of society (the minimum wage)?


  • #105
    Donal55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Donal55


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    There also would be natural downward pressure on above average private sector salaries as the cost of living falls. However, can`t imagine a law that says you cannot pay your employee more than X amount.

    And do you think that the PS would sit idly by, as their counterparts in the private sector's wages rise???


  • #106
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Owryan wrote: »
    Why would employment rise if everyone took a paycut? Then the quandary of how rising wages would mean lower prices, is it not usually the opposite?
    If you think about the question I was asked originally, the answer to your question is obvious.

    If everyone took a 50% pay cut prices would fall. Meanwhile, the cheaper labour becomes a purchasable commodity to startups, existing employers and foreign investors seeking to set up businesses are every kind in this new competitive environment. As demand for workers increases, their pay will rise (from the 50% cut they had taken) even as prices are still falling because of the 50% pay cut they took.


  • #107
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Isn't that exactly what's happening now?
    No. Ireland has a minimum wage making it impossible to employ someone who is not worth it.


  • #108
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    What we need to do is promote Ireland as the destination for illegal immigration just like the left are doing in the US and the continent. Then we get cheap, easily exploitable low-wage workers.


  • #109
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Donal55 wrote: »
    And do you think that the PS would sit idly by, as their counterparts in the private sector's wages rise???
    Public sector people could join the real world of private enterprise.


  • #110
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    stefanovich wrote: »
    What we need to do is promote Ireland as the destination for illegal immigration just like the left are doing in the US and the continent. Then we get cheap, easily exploitable low-wage workers.
    We could work cheaply ourselves.


  • #111
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    Public sector people could join the real world of private enterprise.
    You mean meritocracy? In the public sector? Are you mad?


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  • #112
    greendom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,382 ✭✭✭✭greendom


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    No. Ireland has a minimum wage making it impossible to employ someone who is not worth it.

    For a modern successful economy, the minimum wage is still too low. Recipients of it still have to rely on state benefits such as Family Income Supplement etc. Employers need to start taking full responsibility for their employees and the living wage should be the minimum wage.


  • #113
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    We could work cheaply ourselves.

    Cheaper than what? Minimum wage? Not encouraging illegal immigration is racist.


  • #114
    Donal55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Donal55


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    Public sector people could join the real world of private enterprise.


    Yes. But in your world the private sector would be allowed have higher wages, so surely the PS would follow suit!


  • #115
    weisses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,758 ✭✭✭weisses


    stefanovich wrote: »
    What we need to do is promote Ireland as the destination for illegal immigration just like the left are doing in the US and the continent. Then we get cheap, easily exploitable low-wage workers.

    You don't need illegal immigrants ... Eastern Europeans are doing that job already ... Legally


  • #116
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    weisses wrote: »
    You don't need illegal immigrants ... Eastern Europeans are doing that job already ... Legally

    The joys of the european project.


  • #117
    weisses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,758 ✭✭✭weisses


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    If everyone took a 50% pay cut prices would fall.

    How would that work out with Mortgages, and other bills that have to be paid monthly

    You have us all living on the street before prices go down, and businesses go belly up


  • #118
    Donal55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Donal55


    How is this thread in Irish Economy and not in After Hours?


  • #119
    weisses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,758 ✭✭✭weisses


    stefanovich wrote: »
    The joys of the european project.

    It is one of the flaws ... Correct


  • #120
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    We need to reduce the cost of welfare and reduce the tax burden on people.


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  • #121
    relax carry on
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,158 ✭✭✭relax carry on


    I have to ask you Reality keeper, are you an economist? I've seen your name on countless threads over the years and can't recall ever seeing anyone ever agree with your predictions or odd visions for society that seem to involve destroying what exists now to benefit yourself. It's fascinating.
    Also what political party do you think would back your proposals? Have you ever spoken with a political representative about them?


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