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"Why I did not report my rapist"

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    #92
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    Penn wrote: »
    She said no, and he didn't stop.
    She said no, and he didn't stop.
    She said no, and he didn't stop.
    She stopped saying no, because he wouldn't stop.

    Is this a slogan you learned somewhere? Because it's not having the desired effect of convincing anyone.


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    #93
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    Penn wrote: »
    She said no, and he didn't stop.
    She said no, and he didn't stop.
    She said no, and he didn't stop.
    She stopped saying no, because he wouldn't stop.
    I'm sorry but I disagree. That act of laying there wondering if they're going to violate you or changectheir minds is terrifying. In that moment you just want it to stop/get away, so letting it continue because you can't be bothered telling him no you don't want to have sex with him because you don't fancy him? That's quite bizzare


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    #94
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,387 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    pilly wrote: »
    Is this a slogan you learned somewhere? Because it's not having the desired effect of convincing anyone.

    She said no three times. And he didn't stop. And people are saying that because she then let him have sex with her, that's consent. No, she let him have sex with her because she had already said no three times, and he wouldn't stop.

    That's not consent. I thought breaking it down into it's simplest form might help some people understand it, but clearly not. My own fault really. The same people clearly don't understand the word "No".


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    #95
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    Wibbs wrote: »
    No, "we" don't. And neither does a court of law. It is anything but a "valid defence". I dunno where you pulled that nonsense from. More in play, but more about diminished responsibility in the case of a potential victim. And again not a "valid defence" for an accused rapist. Quite the opposite in fact.

    Plenty of defence solicitors trot out drink or being under the influence of a substance as a mitigating factor in a defendants actions. It's well up there with them coming from a deprived background /good family/ member of the GAA or whatever other guff is supposed to help get them a smaller punishment.

    The Stanford rape case is a perfect example of what I mean. He blamed the party culture and drinking in his defence statement to the judge. So he's using drinking as a mitigating factor. Lots and lots of commentary blamed his victim for being unconscious as a result of drinking and pretty much asking what did she expect getting that drunk at a party.


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    #96
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    Penn wrote: »
    She said no three times. And he didn't stop. And people are saying that because she then let him have sex with her, that's consent. No, she let him have sex with her because she had already said no three times, and he wouldn't stop.

    That's not consent. I thought breaking it down into it's simplest form might help some people understand it, but clearly not. My own fault really. The same people clearly don't understand the word "No".

    I'm a woman and I clearly understood your little ditty. Doesn't mean I have to agree. Every situation is different but in this situation she had many different options including getting out of the bed! It was easier to just have sex has to be the laziest excuse I've ever heard.

    I'd agree with your slogan if it was a woman married to a man who was forever at the same thing but that's not the case here. It's a casual fling who she could easily have finished with whenever she wanted to.


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    #97
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,387 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    I'm sorry but I disagree. That act of laying there wondering if they're going to violate you or changectheir minds is terrifying. In that moment you just want it to stop/get away, so letting it continue because you can't be bothered telling him no you don't want to have sex with him because you don't fancy him? That's quite bizzare

    Different people are always going to have different reactions to what is happening. There is no "this is how the person would react". There is no right or wrong way to act in that situation, especially given that there was drink involved. But she said no. She said no three times. And he didn't stop. Sorry, but that's rape.


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    #98
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    I was raped when I was 17 and I didn't go to the guards for a few reasons C

    1. I was drunk and met him in a nightclub underage
    2. I went home with him because he said he had beer and looking back on it how stupid was I
    3. What if they didn't believe me?
    4. Was mortified
    5. I couldn't bear the thoughts of my parents, especially my dad, finding out someone hurt me.
    6. I believed for ages it was my own fault and
    7. To me it wasn't a rapey rape? He didn't beat me up, pull me down an alley, have a knife, threathen to kill me. As rapists go, he was quite nice to me. I thought they wouldn't take it as seriously.

    Did you report it in later years? Thing that drives me mad is as a society we want everyone to take rape seriously and I definitely do.

    However rape being such a serious thing a wrong accusation can literally ruin lives. If rape has occured I believe we have gotten to a stage where it's socially irresponsible not to go to the authorities and get them to take it forward. This trial by media and perception of a rape culture is damaging to society as a whole.


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    #99
    neonsofa
    Registered Users Posts: 5,476 ✭✭✭neonsofa


    pumpkin4life wrote: »
    Yeah.

    Because people who are abused are absolutely terrified to admit to themselves they were abused. They will repress the memory, develop different personalities. They will develop stockholm syndrome (he was a nice abuser), all of that. They will say that they deserved it or they caused the whole thing. Milo is a recent example of that.

    Because people who are abused might have shaky relationships with friends/family and they're terrified of the fallout.

    They will not plaster it all over the internet.

    Well a few people here have said online that they were raped. I have said it in other threads. I understand that we do with anonymity but many people wanting to make a difference have spoken out about their experience despite being too scared to report it at the time. Some people have gone to therapy and felt empowered afterwards in a way they never felt previously. There are no right or wrong ways to act as someone who has been raped. Saying "if it was actually rape she would have done x y and z" or "rape victims don't do this" is a slippery slope tbh. You may be right in your analysis of this particular woman and her story but there are many ways in which people deal with trauma and speaking in absolutes about how a rape victim would and wouldn't/should and shouldn't behave is not really fair because we are all different.


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    #100
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Neyite wrote: »
    Plenty of defence solicitors trot out drink or being under the influence of a substance as a mitigating factor in a defendants actions. It's well up there with them coming from a deprived background /good family/ member of the GAA or whatever other guff is supposed to help get them a smaller punishment.

    The Stanford rape case is a perfect example of what I mean. He blamed the party culture and drinking in his defence statement to the judge. So he's using drinking as a mitigating factor. Lots and lots of commentary blamed his victim for being unconscious as a result of drinking and pretty much asking what did she expect getting that drunk at a party.

    What part of Ireland is Stanford in ?


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    #101
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Penn wrote: »
    She said no three times. And he didn't stop. And people are saying that because she then let him have sex with her, that's consent. No, she let him have sex with her because she had already said no three times, and he wouldn't stop.

    That's not consent. I thought breaking it down into it's simplest form might help some people understand it, but clearly not. My own fault really. The same people clearly don't understand the word "No".

    And people think we don't need consent classes. This thread should be held up as an example at one of them


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    #102
    TheDavester
    Registered Users Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭TheDavester


    meeeeh wrote: »
    The majority of victims don't report. And no it's not because they want to write a blog. Btw if you actually read the whole thing you would know why she didn't report.

    Fair enough - just comes off to me and maybe others that she can make a blog and put it in the public domain and not go to the relevant authorities is a little strange - not looking for an arguement and definitely not condoning what he did - just curious why she didn't report it


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    #103
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    Calhoun wrote: »
    What part of Ireland is Stanford in ?

    You are saying that these kind of cases don't happen in Ireland too? Of course they do.


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    #104
    b_mac2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 454 ✭✭b_mac2


    bluewolf wrote: »
    And people think we don't need consent classes. This thread should be held up as an example at one of them

    This will be the post that makes me close my account. Bye bye Boards.ie


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    #105
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    bluewolf wrote: »
    And people think we don't need consent classes. This thread should be held up as an example at one of them

    Yah we should also start the white male guide to checking your privilege classes as well. Help me fill it out as a white male your a default rapist, misogynist ...


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    #106
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    She said no on numerous occasions Wibbs. I've never had sex with someone who said no to taking their top off, said no to taking their bottoms etc, because I would know that what I was doing was what I wanted, not what they wanted, and that frankly I was being a c#nt.


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    #107
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Neyite wrote: »
    You are saying that these kind of cases don't happen in Ireland too? Of course they do.

    Well then list them please because if we have really famous cases where rich guys are getting away with raping and using drink as an argument we need to be all over it.


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    #108
    TheDavester
    Registered Users Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭TheDavester


    bluewolf wrote: »
    And people think we don't need consent classes. This thread should be held up as an example at one of them

    We don't ... its another 3rd wave feminist crap spouting all men are sex pests/rapists and women are always the victims


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    #109
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Women most certainly are not always the victims and men suffer from this nonsense being propagated. Good lord.
    "I was abused by my wife" "haha man up"
    "this boy was abused by his teacher" "haha she's so hot lucky fella not like that in my day"
    This helps nobody but as usual it's easier to shout down anyone who might say hey status quo isn't cool


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    #110
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,387 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    How would most of you have handled this situation, not if you were her, but if you were him?

    You've slept with this girl once before, and you like her. After a few drinks at her house, she goes to bed, alone. You then enter her room, ask if you can start kissing her. She says yes.

    You start trying to undress her. She says no. Why don't you stop at that stage?

    Regardless, you keep going, you take her top off. She says she doesn't want to have sex with you. Why don't you stop at that stage?

    Regardless, you keep going, you try to take her bottoms off. She says no. Why don't you stop at that stage?

    By this point, she's already said no three times. Why haven't you stopped yet?


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    #111
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    TheDavester wrote: »
    Fair enough - just comes off to me and maybe others that she can make a blog and put it in the public domain and not go to the relevant authorities is a little strange - not looking for an arguement and definitely not condoning what he did - just curious why she didn't report it

    Thus is her explanation:
    I’m not sorry

    I’m not sorry I didn’t report my rapist. I think the lines were too blurred for there ever to have been a conviction. I think that reporting him would have ruined his life – when I’m not sure he necessarily deserved that, for being drunk and pushy and not respecting my boundaries – and possibly mine.

    It’s so funny because, in theory, I would always advocate reporting rape. I mean, who wouldn’t? But it’s not so black and white when it happens to you.

    Source: http://rosemarymaccabe.com/i-didnt-report-my-rapist/


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    #112
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    Calhoun wrote: »
    Well then list them please because if we have really famous cases where rich guys are getting away with raping and using drink as an argument we need to be all over it.

    Will this do for starters? - only I'm at work and don't have time to make a list. He claimed he was under the influence of prescribed medication:

    http://www.thejournal.ie/glasnevin-cholesterol-sexual-assault-1563756-Jul2014/


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    #113
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    Well if we need consent classes then I guess as a female i should attend those too. I've had sex with someone when we've been on a break and he says no it's a bad idea, but has sex with me anyway, even showered with me after too. If saying no but having sex anyway means rape then surely he's a victim


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    #114
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Women most certainly are not always the victims and men suffer from this nonsense being propagated. Good lord.
    "I was abused by my wife" "haha man up"
    "this boy was abused by his teacher" "haha she's so hot lucky fella not like that in my day"
    This helps nobody but as usual it's easier to shout down anyone who might say hey status quo isn't cool

    Nobody wants to talk about that though to busy with the identity politics. We will soon have laws in place which will future widen the gap in this space.


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    #115
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Neyite wrote: »
    Will this do for starters? - only I'm at work and don't have time to make a list. He claimed he was under the influence of prescribed medication:

    http://www.thejournal.ie/glasnevin-cholesterol-sexual-assault-1563756-Jul2014/

    It will thanks and it's not right. The case you quoted originally was not only using drink as an argument but also social circumstances, I feel the Irish law doesn't have as much the kind of injustices that exist in the US case when you can just apply money to the situation.

    I also think over the past year or two that the law has hardened up in an Irish perspective.


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    #116
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    mzungu wrote:
    He continued on after being asked to stop on numerous occasions, ergo it was rape.


    She admitted she let him have sex with her... ergo it wasn't.


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    #117
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Thus is her explanation:


    Source: http://rosemarymaccabe.com/i-didnt-report-my-rapist/

    Her explanation is ridiculous it's either rape or its not, she serves no one by perpetuating the rape culture myth.


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    #118
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,112 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    inforfun wrote: »
    7d347effca57a152fc92d370f22a6cb8.png

    Hi Rosemary


    Isnt that your goal anyway as "social influencer", that you are being discussed?
    Of course here not everybody agrees with you but hey.... that is used to be life.
    Well she got her attention. Kudos. And she can make hay with the "proof" of "rape culture". There will be no shift from that catechism. Then again all her witterings and twitterings just like her fellow clerics in the Holy Church of the Perpetual Victim will ultimately boil down to "women are always agent less victims and it's always men's fault". So no change then.
    pumpkin4life wrote: »
    They will not plaster it all over the internet.
    They will if they're looking for attention. The web has weaponised attention seeking and what better way than to cry out about a crime. A crime that may or may not have happened many years ago and one that the court of public opinion will swallow. These people are trolls, often professional ones and are just as toxic to society as any of the "alt right" trolls, imported or local(though local just parrots the imported line).
    Neyite wrote: »
    The Stanford rape case is a perfect example of what I mean. He blamed the party culture and drinking in his defence statement to the judge. So he's using drinking as a mitigating factor. Lots and lots of commentary blamed his victim for being unconscious as a result of drinking and pretty much asking what did she expect getting that drunk at a party.
    And was he found innocent? Nope(the sentence was a joke). Can you point to a single rape.sexual assault case where that defence was taken seriously and influenced the jury/judge/verdict. That would be a no then. My point stands; it is not a defence in either case.
    Calhoun wrote: »
    What part of Ireland is Stanford in ?
    Well that's a huge problem. People saying "mom" and shopping in their local "store" is influence enough, but importing this American gender war nonsense wholesale with all its jargon and hysteria is beyond risible.
    bluewolf wrote: »
    And people think we don't need consent classes. This thread should be held up as an example at one of them
    So long as such classes include education for adult women(and men as the case may be) to be clear about their intentions, or lack thereof. If it's more of the Yank college nonsense that boils down to "men = bad" then head right off.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #119
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,112 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Neyite wrote: »
    Will this do for starters? - only I'm at work and don't have time to make a list. He claimed he was under the influence of prescribed medication:

    http://www.thejournal.ie/glasnevin-cholesterol-sexual-assault-1563756-Jul2014/
    And he went to gaol and got (rightly) fined in the civil case and the judgement raised eyebrows all over the place.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #120
    ibarelycare
    Registered Users Posts: 58,456 ✭✭✭✭ibarelycare


    I think it's scary and worrying how this can claimed to be a rape, and it's undermining actual rape victims. Rosemary said no, yet she continued to kiss him, allowed him to undress her, didn't tell him to get off her. He wasn't physically pushy, she just didn't want to go through with the awkwardness of telling him she didn't fancy him. There has to be a sense of personal responsibility there.

    Many times in my life I've told someone "no" while they've been kissing me (as I'm not in the mood, tired, etc), but as the kissing has continued I've become turned on enough to want to have sex. I haven't actually verbalised my consent but I've gone from saying no to actually having sex. So by Rosemary's logic my boyfriend and all my previous boyfriends are rapists? :rolleyes:


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    #121
    TerrorFirmer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,930 ✭✭✭✭TerrorFirmer


    I'm surprised and a little disappointed at the lack of recognition for the complexities of this particular case beyond a simple 'no means no, ergo, it was rape'.

    She decided to kiss him rather than have, by her own admittance, an awkward conversation to explain she wasn't that into him. She continued kissing him as he attempted to touch her, said no to being undressed but relented after persistance - while continuing to be intimate with him throughout, and this is the crucial part.

    She then decided to have sex because it was easier than saying no or having that aforementioned conversation. By her own admittance, at no point did she stop kissing him even as he undressed her.

    I'm not saying he wasn't pushy but in my opinion, labeling this as a clear cut case of rape is a horrifying and ill-informed precedent.

    Contextually, I was also apparently raped last week, my girlfriend wanted us to have sex, I said I wasn't in the mood - and meant it - she persisted - eventually we ended up having mutually enjoyable sex after I was enticed into the idea, mentally and physically.

    In fact, if no always means no with zero regard for context, the capacity of adults to change their minds and the complexities of the different types of nos (and lets be honest here as adults, to deny that different types of no's do exist within relationships, be they long term, casual or fleeting is frankly delusional) then not only have I been raped by virtually every girlfriend I've ever had at some stage, I also must confront the reality that I too am a rapist.

    Is to too late to both hand myself into Gardai, and also have my list of ex-girlfriends arrested for these sickening historical crimes and hauled through the courts to pursue the lengthy custodial sentences they deserve?

    After all, no means no, doesn't it? A poster above believes the specifics of this particular (and peculiar) case can be boiled that to repeated that statement ad nauseam.

    I also very much do not like that disagreement with her assessment of the situation, here on boards and on her blog, is being bandied by her as proof of 'rape culture' in Ireland.

    Apparently by not being in agreement with her feeling that she was raped makes us de-facto advocates of rape and misogyny.

    There's also a confusing element where she implies that her subsequent promiscuity was as a result of this alleged rape. Overall, the whole thing smacks of attention seeking, square-peg-round-hole retrospective and convenient labeling of regretted events in the past to suit an agenda, be it feminist, attention seeking, or whatever.


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