T-shirt in Primark discontinued because of racist 'eeny meeny miny moe' message

One eyed Jack · 23-02-2017 05:58PM

FTA69 wrote: »

Yep. That was fairly shocking for the 1990s like. How the f*ck did that one get made and signed off?

Black crows? No?

I can see how someone who was looking to find it racist, would find it racist (and sexist and misogynist too if they wanted), but then to call it 'casual' racism, as though there's actually anything casual about racism?

r93kaey5p2izun · 23-02-2017 06:05PM

The dog in The Dam Busters was called N***er too. I do think there was a racist element to these names for pets, even if mostly unintended and not even realised by many doing it. I have a black 2nd cousin who named his dog Darkie in the 90s - not in some ironic reclaiming of the word, just the done thing for black dogs at the time and he didn't even consider it connected. I also found a tin of "n***er brown" shoe polish in the shed years ago.

We used the racist version of the rhyme in the 80s. I didn't know there was anything wrong with it until I was a teenager. I don't really care about the tacky cheap tshirt either way. Hard to understand getting so worked about it once the Walking Dead angle was made clear, but equally a crap tshirt isn't any loss.

o1s1n · 23-02-2017 06:14PM

FTA69 wrote: »

Yep. That was fairly shocking for the 1990s like. How the f*ck did that one get made and signed off?

That ad is from the mid 80s, not the 90s.

It wasn't shocking, it was great. stop being so offended by everything.

23-02-2017 06:16PM

We said nipper in the 80s, definitely meaning child. If we'd said the other word, the wooden spoon would have been worn out!

pilly · 23-02-2017 06:18PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I always think what irritates me most is the utter stupidity of making this stuff in the first place. How did it pass through an entire process without someone saying "um, do you not know the second line"? It's not so much about whether I am offended, it is simply about realising that someone may be offended, and accepting that their objections would hardly be outrageous or baffling.

That would be my thinking on it. How the **** did someone not spot it before it got to shops?? Or maybe everyone who did see it was just too young to remember what the second line originally was?? In a way that's a good thing isn't it?

o1s1n · 23-02-2017 06:22PM

pilly wrote: »

That would be my thinking on it. How the **** did someone not spot it before it got to shops?? Or maybe everyone who did see it was just too young to remember what the second line originally was?? In a way that's a good thing isn't it?

Because it's gone way beyond that now.

I'll have to admit that when I read that tshirt I immediately just thought of all the films I've seen where some bad guy was selecting to shoot someone rather than a racist song we used to sing as kids.

Stigura · 23-02-2017 06:27PM

Graces7 wrote: »

I did get told off my Canadians for reciting another rhyme i was taught up on a remote Orkney island...

Thinly veiled 'I've been to the Orkneys' post .....

I have a Labrador of colour here. Guess what his name is? He doesn't get offended by it.

I grew up knowing my uncle only as " Uncle Nigg ". Thought that was his name. Thought nothing of it. Turns out he used to be in the habit of riding a push bike everywhere with his shirt off. Thus becoming extremely sun tanned .....

When we were kids, we had a record ~ one actually produced especially for children ~ which related the story of " Little Black Sambo ". An African kid who lived in the jungle. So what?

Looking back on my life, I find it hard to fathom how, by todays standards, I'm not a rabid White Supremacist :rolleyes:

KingBrian2 · 23-02-2017 06:34PM

DredFX wrote: »

Now this rubs me the wrong way:

BBC

So, a man who isn't even black finds a tacky t-shirt featuring a children's rhyme fantastically offensive. (Lovely choice of adverb there.)

I think he's right, because the fact that it is now commonly used by kids to choose between the last two players for a football match doesn't overturn its previous usage as a racial slur well over a century ago.

Ugh. Your thoughts?

The eeny meeny miny moe is seen is a derogatory song that is why it is discontinued.

FTA69 · 23-02-2017 06:45PM

o1s1n wrote: »

That ad is from the mid 80s, not the 90s.

It wasn't shocking, it was great. stop being so offended by everything.

I remember it being on the telly as a child and I was born in 1987. Likewise I never said I was "offended"; this is the problem nowadays, you point out anything you disagree with no matter how stupid or wrong it is and someone gets in a tizzy.

As an ad it was the epitome of casual racism - labelling black people as crows and engaging in lazy tropes and stereotypes to sell a product. Why is that "great"?

ScumLord · 23-02-2017 06:46PM

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The eeny meeny miny moe is seen is a derogatory song that is why it is discontinued.

Discontinued? It's still out there is use, just without the n-word.

FTA69 · 23-02-2017 06:48PM

Stigura wrote: »

Thinly veiled 'I've been to the Orkneys' post .....

I have a Labrador of colour here. Guess what his name is? He doesn't get offended by it.

I grew up knowing my uncle only as " Uncle Nigg ". Thought that was his name. Thought nothing of it. Turns out he used to be in the habit of riding a push bike everywhere with his shirt off. Thus becoming extremely sun tanned .....

When we were kids, we had a record ~ one actually produced especially for children ~ which related the story of " Little Black Sambo ". An African kid who lived in the jungle. So what?

Looking back on my life, I find it hard to fathom how, by todays standards, I'm not a rabid White Supremacist :rolleyes:

You called your dog N*gger? Out of curiosity, in a hypothetical situation, if a black person happened to be visiting your house would you be comfortable explaining to that person your dog's name?

DredFX · 23-02-2017 06:49PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Discontinued? It's still out there is use, just without the n-word.

Think he's referring to the t-shirt.

Galwayguy35 · 23-02-2017 06:50PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

define "a little while". as a child growing up in the 70s the N word wasnt used.

It was where I grew up, we didn't realise what we were saying at the time though.

ScumLord · 23-02-2017 06:50PM

DredFX wrote: »

Think he's referring to the t-shirt.

It was just pennies that stopped selling it. It's still available on plenty of websites.

One eyed Jack · 23-02-2017 06:51PM

FTA69 wrote: »

I remember it being on the telly as a child and I was born in 1987. Likewise I never said I was "offended"; this is the problem nowadays, you point out anything you disagree with no matter how stupid or wrong it is and someone gets in a tizzy.

As an ad it was the epitome of casual racism - labelling black people as crows and engaging in lazy tropes and stereotypes to sell a product. Why is that "great"?

Can I ask, what's the difference between casual racism, and racism? Either it's racism, or it's reaching?

There was no labelling black people as crows, and if you were to criticise advertising on the basis of lazy tropes and stereotypes to sell a product, well that's just obvious, it's exactly how advertising works - it relies on lazy tropes and stereotypes to sell products.

ceadaoin. · 23-02-2017 06:55PM

FTA69 wrote: »

Yeah but it was casually racist like. Back then that attitude toward black people was so normalised and culturally acceptable then it wouldn't have raised eyebrows and maybe the person wasn't frothing at the mouth malicious; but using N*gger as a name for a pet is very much racist like; as you said the only cats and dogs that were called it were the black ones.

In America maybe, but I don't think people in Ireland in the very early 20th century had that attitude towards black people. Most of them had probably never met or even seen a black person and that sort of racism just wasn't part of the culture of Ireland in the same way as the US. The term didn't have the same connotations here back then even though its use makes us wince nowadays

FTA69 · 23-02-2017 07:00PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Can I ask, what's the difference between casual racism, and racism? Either it's racism, or it's reaching?

There was no labelling black people as crows, and if you were to criticise advertising on the basis of lazy tropes and stereotypes to sell a product, well that's just obvious, it's exactly how advertising works - it relies on lazy tropes and stereotypes to sell products.

Casual racism would be a term used to describe racism that's become normalised and embedded into society to the point many people don't see a problem with it. An example would be Zaph's point earlier on whereupon his aunt thought "n*gger" an acceptable name for a black pet. Like any complex social phenomenon, there are different aspects and degrees of racism.

Regards the Kia Ora ad, they were labelling black people as crows (a bit like in the Dumbo film) and all the crows were basketball players, Mammy washerwomen, jazz musicians and zoot suits etc. It wasn't an accident all the crows had black connotations.

It's basically a softer version of this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coon_Chicken_Inn

pilly · 23-02-2017 07:03PM

FTA69 wrote:

You called your dog N*gger? Out of curiosity, in a hypothetical situation, if a black person happened to be visiting your house would you be comfortable explaining to that person your dog's name?

My dad had a friend who was called N*gger all his adult life and his funeral wreath spelt it out. We thought it was mental but they saw nothing wrong with it. Times change.

23-02-2017 07:04PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

In America maybe, but I don't think people in Ireland in the very early 20th century had that attitude towards black people. Most of them had probably never met or even seen a black person and that sort of racism just wasn't part of the culture of Ireland in the same way as the US. The term didn't have the same connotations here back then even though its use makes us wince nowadays

Maybe our racism wasn't expressed simply because we had little opportunity here, but when we got to the States, as the Draft Riots showed, the Irish had no love for black people at all.

FTA69 · 23-02-2017 07:08PM

pilly wrote: »

My dad had a friend who was called N*gger all his adult life and his funeral wreath spelt it out. We thought it was mental but they saw nothing wrong with it. Times change.

My uncle's best friend in school was called the same (mid 1980s) and he got the nickname because a teacher said he "walked like a n*gger". When my uncle had a brain haemorrhage in 1987 in London he was totally incapacitated and delirious and kept shouting for his friend at the top of his voice - the only problem being all the nurses were black Jamaican women.

Apparently my grandmother then tried to mitigate this by explaining how his friend was called N*gger and how he got the name. Pure fun and games no doubt.

FTA69 · 23-02-2017 07:09PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe our racism wasn't expressed simply because we had little opportunity here, but when we got to the States, as the Draft Riots showed, the Irish had no love for black people at all.

People in Ireland would have known full well what the term means, it wasn't simply another innocuous shade of brown.

davidwalsh12 · 23-02-2017 07:10PM

DredFX wrote: »

Now this rubs me the wrong way:

BBC

But now there's a backlash on social media, with some complaining it's an example of customers being "over-sensitive".
The T-shirt in question is licensed merchandise from The Walking Dead.
It features the rhyme "eeny meeny miny moe", which has a racist origin.

T-shirt

The tune has typically been used by children as a counting rhyme and some early versions of it included references to offensive terms for black people.
More related stories

Along with the words, the T-shirt also features an image of a baseball bat and barbed wire.

This image relates directly to the practice of assaulting black people in America - Ian Lucraft, Primark customer

The rhyme features in a scene in The Walking Dead when one character is deciding which person in a group they are going to kill.
"The T-shirt in question is licensed merchandise for the US television series, The Walking Dead, and the quote and image are taken directly from the show," Primark said in a statement.
"Any offence caused by its design was wholly unintentional and Primark sincerely apologises for this.
"Primark has removed the product from sale."

Customer Ian Lucraft, who complained about the top to Primark, and his wife Gwen had been in a Sheffield branch of the store when they spotted the item of clothing.
"We were shocked when we came face to face with a new T-shirt with a racially explicit graphic and text," he told The Sheffield Star.
"It was fantastically offensive and I can only assume that no-one in the process of ordering it knew what they were doing, or were aware of its subliminal messages.
"The graphic has a large American baseball bat, wrapped round with barbed wire, and covered with blood.
"This image relates directly to the practice of assaulting black people in America.
"It is directly threatening of a racist assault, and if I were black and were faced by a wearer I would know just where I stood."

So, a man who isn't even black finds a tacky t-shirt featuring a children's rhyme fantastically offensive. (Lovely choice of adverb there.)

I think he's right, because the fact that it is now commonly used by kids to choose between the last two players for a football match doesn't overturn its previous usage as a racial slur well over a century ago.

Ugh. Your thoughts?

PC gone mad. I have several coloured friends and they had a good laugh at this story. Negan does not even say the racist version of it in the show. Link here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ7BoKzVqZM

davidwalsh12 · 23-02-2017 07:14PM

No one is born a racist you have to learn to be one. Anything you learn you can unlearn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIi_sUEpQOc

ScumLord · 23-02-2017 07:15PM

FTA69 wrote: »

People in Ireland would have known full well what the term means, it wasn't simply another innocuous shade of brown.

The word has been around for an awful long time and I don't think it's always been derogatory. So I don't think it's fair to say that in the past people always used it as a slur rather than just a description. Especially in countries that didn't have a black population.

The Specialist · 23-02-2017 07:16PM

What a pretentious little prick to complain about a tshirt, a know it all that clearly knows **** all.

KingBrian2 · 23-02-2017 07:18PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Discontinued? It's still out there is use, just without the n-word.

If it is the T-Shirt or the song it should be discontinued. That rhyme is offensive and if someone wants to make a profit out of insulting another race than remove it. We see people going to trial for less than this. That rhyme is racist no idea it is still used and those people who continue to sing it are a shower the whole lot of them for singing an ignorant and pathetic rhyme.

ScumLord · 23-02-2017 07:21PM

KingBrian2 wrote: »

If it is the T-Shirt or the song it should be discontinued. That rhyme is offensive and if someone wants to make a profit out of insulting another race than remove it. We see people going to trial for less than this. That rhyme is racist no idea it is still used and those people who continue to sing it are a shower the whole lot of them for singing an ignorant and pathetic rhyme.

It was racist, but it's one of those tunes that once it gets in your head it's never going to leave. I suppose if we keep singing it with tiger the PITA will be giving out next.

The t-shirt wasn't racist, at all.

The Specialist · 23-02-2017 07:22PM

KingBrian2 wrote: »

If it is the T-Shirt or the song it should be discontinued. That rhyme is offensive and if someone wants to make a profit out of insulting another race than remove it. We see people going to trial for less than this. That rhyme is racist no idea it is still used and those people who continue to sing it are a shower the whole lot of them for singing an ignorant and pathetic rhyme.

How did the world ever survive this long without perpetually offended snowflakes to guide it?

Grandeeod · 23-02-2017 07:24PM

whisky_galore wrote: »

We never saw a black person in rural Ireland in the 1980's...we thought they only existed on tv...Mr T...Benson...Axel Foley...etc...

Yep black people were few and far between in Ireland back in the 70s and 80s. I distinctly remember meeting a little black boy of a similar age on a bench in a Dublin shopping centre in the 70s. My mother constantly reminds me of what I asked him - "Do you know Tarzan?" Purely innocent mind you. That was my only association with black people - feckin Tarzan films. Pure innocence. As someone else said the word in the rhyme sounded more like Knicker and we had absolutely no clue as to its meaning.

In relation to the Primark story, its a pretty pitiful complaint, considering the context and fact that this part of the rhyme without any reference to the N word has been used over and over in literature and film.

ceadaoin. · 23-02-2017 07:26PM

KingBrian2 wrote: »

If it is the T-Shirt or the song it should be discontinued. That rhyme is offensive and if someone wants to make a profit out of insulting another race than remove it. We see people going to trial for less than this. That rhyme is racist no idea it is still used and those people who continue to sing it are a shower the whole lot of them for singing an ignorant and pathetic rhyme.

Kids everywhere still use the rhyme.."eeny meeny miney mo, catch a tiger by the toe. " Send them all to trial! This is the version Negan used in the walking dead. I don't know if anyone complained about that scene being racist but if they didn't, then whats different about the shirt that is referencing that scene?

T-shirt in Primark discontinued because of racist 'eeny meeny miny moe' message

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