Scabs?

Jawgap · 20-02-2017 04:48PM

end of the road wrote: »

the luas operator didn't cave to it's staff's demands. both sides negotiated and eventually came to a deal. the Tesco workers never spat their dummy, they stood up and are fighting to keep their jobs and contracts. they must continue fighting regardless of begrudgers.

Spin it whatever way you want but it's still the same old yarn.

.....and the Tesco workers, quite frankly, are bonkers. It's an industry that relies on throughput and turnover - mucking with either is just cutting your own throat.

suicide_circus · 20-02-2017 05:34PM

ThisRegard wrote: »

They are? Have you not read any of the posts from people contradicting this?

Using your own logic, you'll be ok if it's proven that they're struggling in the market, that employees should also take a cut or amend practises to reflect this? Or is it all just one way?

If the difference between tesco going bust or surviving is changing the terms and conditions of these employees then it's fair enough to change it. But that's not the case here

andekwarhola · 20-02-2017 06:13PM

Have to lol a bit at people trotting out the gotta feed the family line. As if your shopping boils down to a stark choice between strolling to Tesco or an week long trek across the Gobi desert to find a trading outpost.

Havockk · 20-02-2017 06:36PM

Permabear wrote: »

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What is your solution? Bearing in mind of course that low skilled jobs are ever more prevalent, the middle class is shrinking and being subsumed into the poorer classes. Who will buy the goods the machines produce?

Atoms for Peace · 20-02-2017 06:57PM

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

€14 per hour is huge money for what's basically unskilled work. And it's more than their post 96 colleagues - doing the same job - are on.

Yes retail wages are low: thats why most people pull finger, study and get into either management or another industry. Starter jobs should not be seen as jobs for life.

Is their a sneary smilie I could use?

eeguy · 20-02-2017 07:04PM

Havockk wrote: »

What is your solution? Bearing in mind of course that low skilled jobs are ever more prevalent, the middle class is shrinking and being subsumed into the poorer classes. Who will buy the goods the machines produce?

Really? I don't think that's true given that more people are in employment than ever. I can't find any link post 2010 that makes that claim.

Permabear · 20-02-2017 07:07PM

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Havockk · 20-02-2017 07:11PM

eeguy wrote: »

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Yes the middle class is indeed shrinking.

Permabear wrote: »

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Ahh it's all the governments fault. Why am I not surprised at that answer from yourself?
Let me guess, we need less regulation and a privatised education? I wonder how the plebs will pay for that with no education? They should borrow I bet?

FixdePitchmark · 20-02-2017 07:15PM

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

€14 per hour is huge money for what's basically unskilled work. And it's more than their post 96 colleagues - doing the same job - are on.

Yes retail wages are low: thats why most people pull finger, study and get into either management or another industry. Starter jobs should not be seen as jobs for life.

Jaysus some post above.

Nothing worse than a person who has a degree - thinks they can be a manager just because they drank fat frogs for 4 years in a pumped up IT or poorly ranked Irish university.

Doing a retail job correctly is skilled - staff with experience and the right skill set make shopping far more enjoyable for the customer. What is wrong with people dedicated and invested in a big successful company like Tesco.

You see young people in "starter jobs" in retail all they time - many / most - are useless - ignore you, are on their phone and can hardly make eye contact - they will be the great managers of the future when they get their exams {after the few repeats} - if you do not have the skill set and personality in a "starter job" - you will be feck all use as a manager.

Permabear · 20-02-2017 07:19PM

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red ears · 20-02-2017 07:23PM

Anyone who spends 40 hours of their time working deserves a living wage.

eeguy · 20-02-2017 07:26PM

Havockk wrote: »

Yes the middle class is indeed shrinking.

Guess I'll just have to take your word for it so. Despite everything else pointing to the contrary:rolleyes:

red ears wrote: »

Anyone who spends 40 hours of their time working deserves a living wage.

Don't know how relevant that is considering they're earning more than the living wage.

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Jaysus some post above.

Nothing worse than a person who has a degree - thinks they can be a manager just because they drank fat frogs for 4 years in a pumped up IT or poorly ranked Irish university.

Doing a retail job correctly is skilled - staff with experience and the right skill set make shopping far more enjoyable for the customer. What is wrong with people dedicated and invested in a big successful company like Tesco.

You see young people in "starter jobs" in retail all they time - many / most - are useless - ignore you, are on their phone and can hardly make eye contact - they will be the great managers of the future when they get their exams {after the few repeats} - if you do not have the skill set and personality in a "starter job" - you will be feck all use as a manager.

Wow, I can't even begin to remove the huge chip on your shoulder.
People who have degrees are useless, young people are useless? Considering Tescos have the lowest customer satisfaction in the UK, I doubt these gleaming paragons of customer service you idealise are actually working for Tesco.

Havockk · 20-02-2017 07:29PM

Permabear wrote: »

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Oh, of course not. However that's far from an argument for privatised education isn't it

Just you hang on in there and watch in amazement what DeVos does to education in the US.

I love the one Mark Blyth tells his Hedge fund friends, "The Hamptons is not a defensible position, eventually people will come for you."

Havockk · 20-02-2017 07:31PM

eeguy wrote: »

Guess I'll just have to take your word for it so. Despite everything else pointing to the contrary:rolleyes:

Not keeping you in the dark intentionally friend. This trend has been apparent and it's been reported widely for many years.

http://oecdobserver.org/news/fullstory.php/aid/3660/A_hollowing_middle_class.html

Permabear · 20-02-2017 07:36PM

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Havockk · 20-02-2017 07:42PM

Permabear wrote: »

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If it comes to that you'd be as well to keep toilet paper under the mattress and use the fiat currency to wipe your arse

eeguy · 20-02-2017 07:53PM

Havockk wrote: »

If it comes to that you'd be as well to keep toilet paper under the mattress and use the fiat currency to wipe your arse

Solidarity comrade.

Viva la revolution!

20-02-2017 08:02PM

andekwarhola wrote: »

Have to lol a bit at people trotting out the gotta feed the family line. As if your shopping boils down to a stark choice between strolling to Tesco or an week long trek across the Gobi desert to find a trading outpost.

I think it's a logical argument, not everyone in the country has to agree with every strike, if people want to do their shopping they are entitled to do so wherever they like even if that is Tesco.

Havockk · 20-02-2017 08:03PM

eeguy wrote: »

Solidarity comrade.

Viva la revolution!

The point is that if inequality is not addressed, and there is no signs that the notion is even being taken seriously, (beyond lip service) then history shows us what the response is.

ThisRegard · 20-02-2017 08:08PM

red ears wrote: »

Anyone who spends 40 hours of their time working deserves a living wage.

Who claimed the contrary?

Junkyard Tom · 20-02-2017 08:25PM

Permabear wrote: »

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This idea that everyone can upskill is magical thinking. Also, it's not just low-skilled 'mechanical' jobs that are for the machines/bots.

A computer that dispenses expert radiology advice is just one example of how jobs currently done by highly trained white-collar workers can be automated, thanks to the advance of deep learning and other forms of artificial intelligence.

The Economist: Jun 25th 2016

The most important issues in the future will be how aggregate demand will be generated and who controls the machines/bots. The latter becomes a deadly serious matter if the former isn't taken care of.

Arghus · 20-02-2017 08:42PM

Permabear wrote: »

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To be honest when I was referring to a "long fight" earlier I wasn't humming The Internationale or thinking in generalities about the future potential war between the proletariat and the capitalist classes. I was using metaphor to illustrate how the current pay and conditions dispute at Tesco specifically has been rumbling for a while and will in all likelihood continue to rumble on for a bit yet.

P_1 · 20-02-2017 09:15PM

Glenster wrote: »

I walked past the line in bray.

If you went in there you saw that all the people working were the young lads and lasses who do the actual work in the shop anyway.

I didn't see any of the 'legacy' staff going on strike when they brought in young lads on lower pay.

As someone under 30 I feel as though the unions would never go on strike to improve my conditions, only to protect the conditions of lazier and more entitled older staff, that is why I don't have a problem crossing the picket line.

And the reason the Bray car park was empty is because some slimy prick dressed up as a lollipop man was walking out in front of cars trying to get in and not letting them in.

This is it in a nutshell for me. The older generation would (and have) throw you under the bus without a heartbeat's consideration. They do tap all in work, leaving you to pick up their slack. Remind me again why we should go out of our way to help them?

evolving_doors · 20-02-2017 09:24PM

Delacent wrote: »

"Win" - It was negotiated for over 2 years. It went to Labour Court. Labour court made a recomendation. Tesco accepted it. 700 out of just over 1000 took the redundancy.

Now that there are just 300 left, the union puts the package to the member affected - but excluded those who took redundancy.

Same way ASTI allow retired teachers vote on anything happenign to current teachers (that's why asti always vote against everything)

As for those sayign Tesco are making a fortune - last year they made a profit of 0.71% of their sales value (yep, less than 1% of your shopping bill is their net profit)

Naw... retired teachers only get to vote if it impacts on them... such as the pension paycut under Haddington Road.

end of the road · 20-02-2017 09:36PM

P_1 wrote: »

This is it in a nutshell for me. The older generation would (and have) throw you under the bus without a heartbeat's consideration. They do tap all in work, leaving you to pick up their slack. Remind me again why we should go out of our way to help them?

none of the older staff are lazier then the younger staff. some lazy staff do exist of course, they do in every job. but they are across the spectrum.

P_1 · 20-02-2017 09:48PM

end of the road wrote: »

none of the older staff are lazier then the younger staff. some lazy staff do exist of course, they do in every job. but they are across the spectrum.

Still doing nothing to address the fact that unions do nothing for the younger generation and the older generation will continue throwing the younger generation under the bus and demand their support while they do so. Not that I expected you to mind...

end of the road · 20-02-2017 09:55PM

P_1 wrote: »

Still doing nothing to address the fact that unions do nothing for the younger generation and the older generation will continue throwing the younger generation under the bus and demand their support while they do so. Not that I expected you to mind...

the union's job is to stand up for all members and it's the job of members who feel they aren't been stood up for to demand that they do. however, in this case the union can only do something for workers who are been effected by changes to their contract, other workers in the company aren't facing changes to their terms from the best of my knowledge.

eeguy · 20-02-2017 10:28PM

end of the road wrote: »

the union's job is to stand up for all members and it's the job of members who feel they aren't been stood up for to demand that they do. however, in this case the union can only do something for workers who are been effected by changes to their contract, other workers in the company aren't facing changes to their terms from the best of my knowledge.

If it's such an important issue then why aren't the rest of the staff out in solidarity?

red ears · 20-02-2017 10:43PM

ThisRegard wrote: »

Who claimed the contrary?

There are some on the libertarian side who don't believe in a min wage so they could end up working for an absolute pittance to compete with automation.

Permabear · 20-02-2017 10:50PM

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Scabs?

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