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Scabs?

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Comments

  • #182
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Were you full time?

    Someone working for the company 28 years only had to be earning a little over €35,000 or so a year to get a €100,000 payout.

    It's also an average figure, there would have been plenty earning either a lot more than that, or been there longer.


    It has already been stated that these staff are on €14 per hour so nowhere near €35k.

    What makes you think that there would be staff earning a lot more than that?


  • #183
    TallGlass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,906 ✭✭✭TallGlass


    Butters1979 wrote: »
    This is it really, if you support the strikes fine. The idea that we all must support them regardless of reasoning or we are a scab or whatever is insane.

    They're trying to, and if enough people agreed with some of this bizzare don't cross a picket line no matter what attitude, it would be seriously affecting the business.

    Well, I myself couldn't care if someone crossed a picket or not. Tesco done enough damage on it's own without any help from workers. If they want this ended it's a simple as them just saying to the union, we won't go ahead with the contract changes and the option remains if the staff want to leave with redundancy.


  • #184
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    No, it's much simpler than that, it's primary level maths.

    How are you getting your numbers?

    €14 per hour = €546 per week x 5 = €2730 per year of service.

    What part of that is complicated?


  • #185
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    pilly wrote: »
    It has already been stated that these staff are on €14 per hour so nowhere near €35k.

    What makes you think that there would be staff earning a lot more than that?
    pilly wrote: »
    €14 per hour = €546 per week x 5 = €2730 per year of service.

    What part of that is complicated?


    Not everyone were low level workers, what makes you think that nobody on a pre96 contract didn't rise up through the ranks?

    What part of that, or the concept of averages, are you finding complicated?


  • #186
    shamrockvilla
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 258 ✭✭shamrockvilla


    my belief is that if Tesco win this one then all contracts can be ripped up when they feel like it,downturn in economy, falling profits etc.The original contracts were not drawn up by the workers, they were drawn up by Tesco. Why do Tesco not allow the original contracts run down naturally, retirements through age or illness,moving jobs etc. Rather than creating a split through bad feeling Tesco have a chance to do the honourable thing. I know personally from being on strike almost 30 years ago that it creates a very bad atmosphere even to this day.


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  • #187
    nhunter100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭nhunter100


    Butters1979 wrote:
    If the employees were worth any more than they are paid they would be paid more, either by tesco's or someone else. The fact of the matter is they are not. If you want more money qualify for a better job. This strike is more self entitled money grabbing from unions.


    You do realise the strike is not about more money, right?


  • #188
    TallGlass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,906 ✭✭✭TallGlass


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    I never said they were, I'm pointing out that when a company is doing well staff want a cut out of it, when it's performing poorly it's all hey, that's nothing to do with us.

    Okay, true point. In fairness who wants to take a paycut? As I also said, staff numbers have dropped in most store, budgets constantly cut to bare minimum.

    I could easily have around 5 suggestions for Tesco operationally that would see them save money, do they want to know? No. They know best at the top, workers know nothing, do work and shut there mouths.

    I remember one store manager had an argument with this cray cray regional area manager (think that was her title), he was swiftly moved to the back arse of know-where. IMO, he was the best store manager I worked with in my 10 years there. Was replaced with a yes man, (nice guy) but he literally ran the store into the ground, awful atmosphere between management and staff, place was in bits, never seen as much stock go out via the bin.

    That's the type of organisation you are dealing with here. But your okay with there solution to just tear up contracts. Sorry, that just doesn't sit with myself as any type of solution.


  • #189
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,611 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • #190
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,334 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Not everyone were low level workers, what makes you think that nobody on a pre96 contract didn't rise up through the ranks?

    People who have risen through the ranks: section managers, store managers, area managers etc, etc are on totally different contracts - they get a salary, rather than hourly pay - to those employed as general assistants and as a result aren't balloting with general workers and aren't going on strike. Their pay is not repersenative in calculating that average.


  • #191
    knipex
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,996 ✭✭✭knipex


    TallGlass wrote: »
    Don't disagree about the CEO been paid well it's a hard job no doubts there, he is a hatchet man from what I heard from his time at Uni-Lever. Regardless, are you saying that if a company has losses that it's fine to go in and do anything you want with your work force, tear up contracts and bring in anything you want to suit yourself?

    And by the way, I as a worker didn't cause the mess that Tesco managed to put themselves in, nor did store management. It was purely management at the top that made massive blunders on a wide range of operational things from acquiring land to squandering balances on books.

    Whats the alternative ?

    Do nothing and let the company close and everyone loose their jobs ??

    Your on a sinking ship, what do you do, say its not my fault ! I'm not moving and go back to your cabin ?


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  • #192
    Phoebas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    The strikers ate not trying to damage any business at all. This is a lie.
    I think we all know what the purpose of a strike is; apply pressure on the management by damaging the bottom line of the business.
    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Strikers are forced to go where they are going because Tesco wont let them picket the stores. Strikers at my local stores are specifically asking people not to boycott other stores and have signs enviurahing people to goto the other stores.
    Strikers are not forced to go anywhere or do anything. They make free choices that you should allow them to own.


  • #193
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Not everyone were low level workers, what makes you think that nobody on a pre96 contract didn't rise up through the ranks?

    What part of that, or the concept of averages, are you finding complicated?

    Where's your primary level maths so?


  • #194
    AlanG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭AlanG


    I would not cross the picket but it would be good if the union gave out more details on what they want and what they have turned down. I would also like to know if all staff in the union got to vote secretly in the strike ballot or was it just pre-96 staff.


  • #195
    snowgal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,863 ✭✭✭snowgal


    in the Tesco in Navan, the strikers are just outside the entrance to the store. Kind of blocking the whole entrance. I went in once as had to return something but have avoided it every other day since. Id usually be in there daily.


  • #196
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Arghus wrote: »
    People who have risen through the ranks: section managers, store managers, area managers etc, etc are on totally different contracts - they get a salary, rather than hourly pay - to those employed as general assistants and as a result aren't balloting with general workers and aren't going on strike. Their pay is repersenative in calculating that average.

    Doesn't change the fact of what the average pay out was.


  • #197
    TallGlass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,906 ✭✭✭TallGlass


    knipex wrote: »
    Whats the alternative ?

    Do nothing and let the company close and everyone loose their jobs ??

    Your on a sinking ship, what do you do, say its not my fault ! I'm not moving and go back to your cabin ?

    The ship isn't sinking at all. 1.6% of the workforce been paid slightly more than the rest isn't going to sink your ship.

    Tesco entered waters, that looked like they wouldn't return from. This was nothing to do with Tesco IRL or the workforce. The UK arm where up to some awfully bad operations.

    Why is it that companies always look to drop workers at the sight of trouble.

    As I said I have 5 operational changes that could have saved a lot of money.

    Wastage is as big a problem as wages and they buy way to much stock and flood the stores with it. I also mentioned that job losses did happen, natural losses of workers where not replaced. So no one directly lost there job but losses did occur, management been spread as thin as butter. New stores opened managers moved and not replaced, yet advertised as 200 'new' jobs.


  • #198
    red ears
    Closed Accounts Posts: 945 ✭✭✭red ears


    What tesco are up to is pretty depressing for workers. Unless your have high skills that are in high demand then you could be susceptible to the same treatment tesco workers are currently experiencing. There is a definite feeling of race to the bottom about it. A company that is doing quite well reducing their staffs terms and conditions just because they can. That could be the future for many of us.


  • #199
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,111 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    I would 100% cross the picket for Luas or Dublin Bus drivers if I could as I don't believe their strike is valid.

    However for this or Dunnes 100% no way would I cross the picket. The sacked some of the workers from the last time Dunnes went on strike.


  • #200
    knipex
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,996 ✭✭✭knipex


    RasTa wrote: »
    I would 100% cross the picket for Luas or Dublin Bus drivers if I could as I don't believe their strike is valid.

    However for this or Dunnes 100% no way would I cross the picket. The sacked some of the workers from the last time Dunnes went on strike.

    You do know how difficult is is to sack anyone in this country ? And to sack someone for union activity ?? Not going to happen without a big payout...


  • #201
    knipex
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,996 ✭✭✭knipex


    TallGlass wrote: »
    The ship isn't sinking at all. 1.6% of the workforce been paid slightly more than the rest isn't going to sink your ship.

    Pay is only a tiny element of it. Its more to do with work practices and flexibility rather than pay.

    If the union were all that concerned then why didn't they strike when terms and conditions were changed for new entrants ??

    This isn't a crusade to protect the terms and conditions of all employees at Tesco..

    Its about protecting the terms and conditions of a very small group that had no hesitation in abandoning newer entrants to poorer terms and conditions.. Yet now they want their support...


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  • #202
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,111 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    knipex wrote: »
    You do know how difficult is is to sack anyone in this country ? And to sack someone for union activity ?? Not going to happen without a big payout...

    It's what Dunnes did, the payouts wouldn't be that big given their length of service with the company. Maybe 20 or 30k

    http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/dunnes-accused-of-targeting-workers-who-went-on-strike-31128643.html


  • #203
    AnneFrank
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭AnneFrank


    not everyone in a company is in a union, not everyone agrees with them or their strikes,
    i have crossed a picket in my job once, and would do it again.
    I have bills that need to be paid and won't be bullied by anyone.
    But each to their own, i wouldn't shout or hurl abuse at someone for striking


  • #204
    GerryDerpy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 761 ✭✭✭GerryDerpy


    Do Tesco not pay minimum wage? Why would it be any more than that? Anyone can work in a supermarket.


  • #205
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #206
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Tesco share price was 487 pence in 2007 and is 194 pence today, if this was in my pension I would be wildly pissed off. Of course this is going to have serious affects on the workers and the entire business.

    People blaming the management, both the chairman and CEO have both been replaced in the last few years and the new guy appear to be a "turnaround specialist".

    If I dont shop in the local Tesco what should I do?
    - Go to Dunnes whos employee relations are notoriously bad
    - Go to Lidl or Aldi whose local stores are much smaller and who I reckon employ way less staff

    Are they the best of a bad lot?


  • #207
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #208
    eeguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,399 ✭✭✭eeguy


    Topgear on Dave wrote: »
    Tesco share price was 487 pence in 2007 and is 194 pence today, if this was in my pension I would be wildly pissed off. Of course this is going to have serious affects on the workers and the entire business.

    People blaming the management, both the chairman and CEO have both been replaced in the last few years and the new guy appear to be a "turnaround specialist".

    If I dont shop in the local Tesco what should I do?
    - Go to Dunnes whos employee relations are notoriously bad
    - Go to Lidl or Aldi whose local stores are much smaller and who I reckon employ way less staff

    Are they the best of a bad lot?

    It depends how you look at it. Are the company responsible their shareholders and owners or to their employees?

    Should the company be beholden to staff just because they've been employed for 20 years?

    Personally I think Tesco offered them a way out, a thanks for your time, you can either leave and get upwards of 50k payout (one poster here got 70k last year) or you can stay and have your terms changed.

    It seems like a minority wanted to have their cake and eat it. It says a lot that nearly all of their colleagues are still at work keeping the stores open and not striking in solidarity.


  • #209
    red ears
    Closed Accounts Posts: 945 ✭✭✭red ears


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    The point I was trying to get at is not everyone can be the high skilled worker in high demand. Are we going to be ok with vast numbers of people working for a pittance. Society won't function well like that.


  • #210
    fullstop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,903 ✭✭✭✭fullstop


    paddyirishman07 wrote: »
    Why not cut 1 million from the CEO, Why not stop throwing out perfectly good stock, Why not stop local management at store level sitting down in offices all day on the phone, why not make sure the stock we need is on the shelves(what everyone has seen)why not put the products on sale that customers are looking for instead of telling them it's out of stock because they need the stock for the big visit tomorrow (actually happens) Why cut the little man?

    That's not how big businesses work, though. If you want to turn a company around, you do this through hiring the right leaders. And to get the right leaders, you have to pay for them, in spades. Do you think Dave Lewis just popped into his local Tesco with a CV and they decided to give him millions? He relocated all over the world with Unilever, worked his way to the very top there and you can be damn sure he worked his ass off to get to where he is and made plenty of personal sacrifices in the process. He is leading a company with thousands of employees and is paid very, very well to make big decisions to hit targets set by the business. It's just the nature of the beast.


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  • #211
    eeguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,399 ✭✭✭eeguy


    red ears wrote: »
    The point I was trying to get at is not everyone can be the high skilled worker in high demand. Are we going to be ok with vast numbers of people working for a pittance. Society won't function well like that.

    Universal basic income is the way forward apparently.

    Should people adapt to changes in our society or should we adapt our society to people who are unable or unwilling to adapt?


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