Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

flangemeistro · 13-02-2017 02:18PM

awec wrote: »

I think in terms of Irish players Rory Best is the only player so far who has probably improved his chances of travelling with the Lions. The rest have either stayed where they were or went backwards.

Did you see Bests arrows and decision making against Scotland?
If anything himself and Henderson have played their way off the plane.

awec · 13-02-2017 02:20PM

flangemeistro wrote: »

Did you see Bests arrows and decision making against Scotland?
If anything himself and Henderson have played their way off the plane.

I still think he has a net gain. At the start of the season nobody gave him a prayer, now he's a maybe.

Henderson definitely has hampered his chances.

WeleaseWoderick · 13-02-2017 02:23PM

awec wrote: »

I think in terms of Irish players Rory Best is the only player so far who has probably improved his chances of travelling with the Lions. The rest have either stayed where they were or went backwards.

I'd have thought Tadgh Furlong's performances have cemented him as favourite for the test jersey at this point.

Cian Healy's demolition job on the Italian scrum won't have gone unnoticed either considering Wales didn't have the same joy at all against Italy.

awec · 13-02-2017 02:24PM

WeleaseWoderick wrote: »

I'd have thought Tadgh Furlong's performances have cemented him as favourite for the test jersey at this point.

Cian Healy's demolition job on the Italian scrum won't have gone unnoticed either considering Wales didn't have the same joy at all against Italy.

Actually yes, forgot about Furlong. Another who few would have picked at the start of the year.

Healy? I am not sure. I suspect he'll be dropped to the bench again for the remaining 3 games. Still think that only one of McGrath and Healy will go and McGrath is miles ahead right now IMO.

WeleaseWoderick · 13-02-2017 02:37PM

awec wrote: »

Actually yes, forgot about Furlong. Another who few would have picked at the start of the year.

Healy? I am not sure. I suspect he'll be dropped to the bench again for the remaining 3 games. Still think that only one of McGrath and Healy will go and McGrath is miles ahead right now IMO.

Oh, I'd agree that McGrath is still miles ahead of Healy but it's more that Healy's own chances of making the squad would have improved

FellasFellas · 13-02-2017 08:32PM

Hooker wise he's gonna bring Hartley and Best I'd say with George/Owens fighting for last spot. Loosehead he's still looking at McGrath, Vunipola and Marler maybe or Healy. Tighthead is Furlong and Cole nailed on with any from Lee to Sinckler to Fagerson to go 3rd choice.

13-02-2017 08:58PM

Interesting thought.

Joe said this evening that bringing in new players with the right guys around them was important and then immediately spoke about Scannell.

I wonder is Healy seen as the more powerful scrummager between himself and McGrath, but McGrath having the superior engine?

I wouldn't be surprised to see Healy travel given how strong Ireland's scrum has been overall, but especially with him at loosehead.

Sangre · 13-02-2017 09:32PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Interesting thought.

Joe said this evening that bringing in new players with the right guys around them was important and then immediately spoke about Scannell.

I wonder is Healy seen as the more powerful scrummager between himself and McGrath, but McGrath having the superior engine?

I wouldn't be surprised to see Healy travel given how strong Ireland's scrum has been overall, but especially with him at loosehead.

Hard to tell a lot of the time as when Healy typically comes off the bench most of the frontrow have changed or will shortly change. Therefore, you can't necessarily put any change down to just him.

While Healy did mince the Italians, don't forget that we were doing the same to Scotland the weekend before as well when McGrath started.

13-02-2017 09:38PM

Sangre wrote: »

Hard to tell a lot of the time as when Healy typically comes off the bench most of the frontrow have changed or will shortly change. Therefore, you can't necessarily put any change down to just him.

While Healy did mince the Italians, don't forget that we were doing the same to Scotland the weekend before as well when McGrath started.

Agreed - I'm only going by the (lol) barometer (lol) that Italy put it right upto Wales in the scrum last week. Scotland weren't great against France either.

Please note: those lol's were not directed at you.

English Lurker · 13-02-2017 11:36PM

awec wrote: »

Actually yes, forgot about Furlong. Another who few would have picked at the start of the year.

Healy? I am not sure. I suspect he'll be dropped to the bench again for the remaining 3 games. Still think that only one of McGrath and Healy will go and McGrath is miles ahead right now IMO.

Who goes instead? Marler? Rob Evans? I can't even remember who Scotland's starting loosehead is at the moment but no, just no. I'm not seeing why Healy isn't in with a very good shout.

14-02-2017 12:35AM

English Lurker wrote: »

Who goes instead? Marler? Rob Evans? I can't even remember who Scotland's starting loosehead is at the moment but no, just no. I'm not seeing why Healy isn't in with a very good shout.

It's entirely possible that Cian Healy is the best scrummaging loosehead in the NH right now. There is some evidence for this, there is some against.

There is evidence that despite this his failures in the loose have him behind McGrath. It's all up for debate.

Lancher · 15-02-2017 12:40AM

Based on original squad numbers in 2013.
Only includes players fit to play in 6N to date and who have not picked up an injury.

3 LH Props Healy, McGrath & Marler
3 TH Props Furlong, Cole & Fagerson
3 Hookers Best, George & Hartley
5 Locks Gray, Gray, AWJ, Itoje & Henderson
5 Flankers O'Brien, Tipuric, Warburton, Stander & Haskell
2 No8 Faletau, Heaslip
3 Scrumhalves Murray, Webb & Youngs
2 Flyhalves Biggar, Jackson
4 Centres Farrell, Henshaw, Davies, Ringrose
4 Wings Zebo, Williams, Nowell & Daly
3 Fullbacks Hogg, Brown & Halfpenny

Notable names not considered include Vunipola, Vunipola, Kruis, Sexton, North & Robshaw.

Eng 11 Ire 13 Sco 4 Wal 9

It may seem odd to have more Irish than English or Welsh but Warrenball might be ditched in an attempt to outplay the ABs. Ireland's win in Chicago could be the template for B&I Lions.

flangemeistro · 15-02-2017 12:49AM

Lancher wrote: »

Based on original squad numbers in 2013.
Only includes players fit to play in 6N to date and who have not picked up an injury.

3 LH Props Healy, McGrath & Marler
3 TH Props Furlong, Cole & Fagerson
3 Hookers Best, George & Hartley
5 Locks Gray, Gray, AWJ, Itoje & Henderson
5 Flankers O'Brien, Tipuric, Warburton, Stander & Haskell
2 No8 Faletau, Heaslip
3 Scrumhalves Murray, Webb & Youngs
2 Flyhalves Biggar, Jackson
4 Centres Farrell, Henshaw, Davies, Ringrose
4 Wings Zebo, Williams, Nowell & Daly
3 Fullbacks Hogg, Brown & Halfpenny

Notable names not considered include Vunipola, Vunipola, Kruis, Sexton, North & Robshaw.

Eng 11 Ire 13 Sco 4 Wal 9

It may seem odd to have more Irish than English or Welsh but Warrenball might be ditched in an attempt to outplay the ABs. Ireland's win in Chicago could be the template for B&I Lions.

Henderson, Heaslip and Ringrose!
Best laugh I've had in a while.

pickarooney · 15-02-2017 12:52AM

Has Moriarty got a shot? Say Vunipola is struggling with injury?

Lancher · 15-02-2017 12:53AM

flangemeistro wrote: »

Henderson, Heaslip and Ringrose!
Best laugh I've had in a while.

At least you didn't mention Jackson

Lancher · 15-02-2017 01:10AM

IMO
Ringrose is a better centre than any of the Scots.
Joseph is a one trick pony (hitch step) T'eo still too much an RL player
Scott Williams is consistent but ordinary and I will never forget the time he broke himself on BOD either.

Henderson is similar to Itoje, and that versatility could see him go.

Heaslip is still a brilliant No 8, certainly our best ever. He's one of the best rugby players playing at No 8 aside from Kieran Read and possibly Parisse & Faletau. Billy V & Stander are more powerful but not as complete a player.

Utopia Parkway · 15-02-2017 01:15AM

Think this tour will be seen as a bit too early for Ringrose unless he really tears it up in the remaining few games.

Heaslip is just behind other players IMO assuming they are fit and he's a specialist 8 so the lack of versatility may count against him.

Henderson maybe as he can cover two positions but he needs to play a lot better first and there is a lot of competition for those places.

English Lurker · 15-02-2017 05:33AM

pickarooney wrote: »

Has Moriarty got a shot? Say Vunipola is struggling with injury?

Shouldn't be a Vunipola replacement. Not a good enough carrier.

I think he'd need to be quite lucky with the injuries.

On reflection, slightly surprised Payne isn't being mentioned. He's intelligent, versatile, and a very safe option. Don't know when he's back though.

Buer · 15-02-2017 09:22AM

pickarooney wrote: »

Has Moriarty got a shot? Say Vunipola is struggling with injury?

Vunipola rumoured to be ready to make a comeback before the end of the 6N. That's a double edged sword though. If he makes his comeback with no match fitness and comes off second best, he could actually harm his chances. I do think if he proves his match fitness before the summer he'll travel though.

The thing is, Nathan Hughes is going pretty well. Why would they drop him? He's a similar style and has been eating up the carries for England.

Moriarty has a great chance. He covers flanker and 8 and has already played NZ down there 3 times last summer without being overwhelmed. Those who have performed against NZ before have a significant plus next to their name.

Professor Moriarty · 15-02-2017 03:12PM

The Lions official app allows you to select your squad and get it rated. Bit of fun along with news and fixtures.

swiwi_ · 15-02-2017 03:15PM

I think Nathan Hughes has been a bit crap myself. A one trick pony if ever I saw one. Vunipola will go straight back in if fit.

Sangre · 15-02-2017 03:19PM

swiwi_ wrote: »

I think Nathan Hughes has been a bit crap myself. A one trick pony if ever I saw one. Vunipola will go straight back in if fit.

He reminds of a slightly less destructive Billy V two years - before he fleshed out his game.

.ak · 15-02-2017 03:26PM

swiwi_ wrote: »

I think Nathan Hughes has been a bit crap myself. A one trick pony if ever I saw one. Vunipola will go straight back in if fit.

Whilst he hasn't impressed me in white yet he's certainly not a one trick pony. For me he's one of the best footballers playing 8 in the British isles, he's got a brilliant array of skills and is just a great all round rugby player. He's been the centre of everything good at wasps over the past couple of seasons.

The real mccoy 91 · 15-02-2017 03:59PM

Obviously speculative and opinion based at the moment could cause a fun debate tho my idea of the starting 15 is
1.mcgrath
2.george
3.cole
4.kruis
5 . itoje
6.stander
7.warburton
8.vunipola
9.murray
10.ford
11.daly
12.farrell
13.davies/Joseph
14.williams
15 . Halfpenny/hogg

The real mccoy 91 · 15-02-2017 04:03PM

Lancher wrote:

3 LH Props Healy, McGrath & Marler 3 TH Props Furlong, Cole & Fagerson 3 Hookers Best, George & Hartley 5 Locks Gray, Gray, AWJ, Itoje & Henderson 5 Flankers O'Brien, Tipuric, Warburton, Stander & Haskell 2 No8 Faletau, Heaslip 3 Scrumhalves Murray, Webb & Youngs 2 Flyhalves Biggar, Jackson 4 Centres Farrell, Henshaw, Davies, Ringrose 4 Wings Zebo, Williams, Nowell & Daly 3 Fullbacks Hogg, Brown & Halfpenny

For me ringrose Jackson and henderson are nowhere near. Ringrose being the furthest away he is very dodgy defensively doesn't read the game well enough is too small to be an international centre and doesn't pass well enough. He's down my pecking order for the ireland team never mind the lions

P.Walnuts · 15-02-2017 04:30PM

The real mccoy 91 wrote: »

For me ringrose Jackson and henderson are nowhere near. Ringrose being the furthest away he is very dodgy defensively doesn't read the game well enough is too small to be an international centre and doesn't pass well enough. He's down my pecking order for the ireland team never mind the lions

Disagree strongly with your points Re Ringrose

pickarooney · 15-02-2017 05:10PM

The real mccoy 91 wrote: »

For me ringrose Jackson and henderson are nowhere near. Ringrose being the furthest away he is very dodgy defensively doesn't read the game well enough is too small to be an international centre and doesn't pass well enough. He's down my pecking order for the ireland team never mind the lions

Is this opposite land?
Or at least a planet where Wesley Fofana, Jonathan Joseph and Conrad Smith don't exist?

15-02-2017 05:17PM

pickarooney wrote: »

Is this opposite land?
Or at least a planet where Wesley Fofana, Jonathan Joseph and Conrad Smith don't exist?

They are good examples but to be fair in Ireland we are used to our centres being 6"3 quasi-fankers in the Jamie Robert's mold so it's easy to see why someone like Ringrose would be much smaller than the type of outside centre most recognisable on these shores.:pac:

The real mccoy 91 · 15-02-2017 05:34PM

He picks the wrong times to come up out of the line looked good doing it last week against a bunch of part timer's he won't get away with it against France or Wales and I really fear for him if he's picked against England they will make mince meat of him in my eyes. He's overhyped doesn't pass enough runs good lines at times but not consistently. For the style of rugby ireland play he is the wrong fit in my eyes mccloskey is a much better option

Buer · 15-02-2017 05:42PM

The real mccoy 91 wrote: »

He picks the wrong times to come up out of the line looked good doing it last week against a bunch of part timer's he won't get away with it against France or Wales and I really fear for him if he's picked against England they will make mince meat of him in my eyes. He's overhyped doesn't pass enough runs good lines at times but not consistently. For the style of rugby ireland play he is the wrong fit in my eyes mccloskey is a much better option

Good thing they play different positions.

Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

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