Dairy chit chat II

C0N0R · 12-02-2017 06:15PM

kowtow wrote: »

alps wrote: »

First milk in yhe tank this morning...thought we'd make it, but the milk level is just short of the agitator..would apprecite knowing what others would do in the situation.

I have seen the occasional pair of vice grips used to extend an agitator paddle.

Imagine, what kind of person has stainless steel vice grips?

Used I attach an ice cream lid with vice grips to the agitator paddle, stainless of course!

thisyear · 12-02-2017 08:33PM

Mooooo wrote: »

Keepgrowing wrote: »

"The article suggests" but did LIC say so, I wonder?

Have their catalogue here and all the top kiwis are in it, we'll all the ones I want. We take a hit on EBI but it's a price we don't mind paying. All I want is a 500-520 kg cow doing 500 Kgs Ms

Do you go on bw when selecting bulls or ebi or both?

This whole think has been some farce. I wouldn't buy off them now in a fit. Their bulls are way off on ebi as well so really don't understand their position. Fair play to icbf for standing up to them. Was taking to one of the lads in Moorepark who was questioning their latest bulls anyway, saying there is a lot of American and Dutch genetics in the kiwi herd and we know how well that served Ireland in the past.

Mooooo · 12-02-2017 08:40PM

thisyear wrote: »

This whole think has been some farce. I wouldn't buy off them now in a fit. Their bulls are way off on ebi as well so really don't understand their position. Fair play to icbf for standing up to them. Was taking to one of the lads in Moorepark who was questioning their latest bulls anyway, saying there is a lot of American and Dutch genetics in the kiwi herd and we know how well that served Ireland in the past.

I wouldn't right off the Bulls like that. Plenty herds using LIC and doing very well I'd imagine. Also I can guarantee you there are plenty lads who won't have the highest ebi herds in the country who are performing just as well or better than those with the highest ebi. While it's a system that is working for many it's a paper figure a lot of the time and management improvement would give a much bigger lift in profit.

thisyear · 12-02-2017 08:48PM

Mooooo wrote: »

thisyear wrote: »

This whole think has been some farce. I wouldn't buy off them now in a fit. Their bulls are way off on ebi as well so really don't understand their position. Fair play to icbf for standing up to them. Was taking to one of the lads in Moorepark who was questioning their latest bulls anyway, saying there is a lot of American and Dutch genetics in the kiwi herd and we know how well that served Ireland in the past.

I wouldn't right off the Bulls like that. Plenty herds using LIC and doing very well I'd imagine. Also I can guarantee you there are plenty lads who won't have the highest ebi herds in the country who are performing just as well or better than those with the highest ebi. While it's a system that is working for many it's a paper figure a lot of the time and management improvement would give a much bigger lift in profit.

I'm sure there is plenty that have and I think we have to thank LIC for kicking the Irish companies into producing the goods finally. Imo genomics has changed the game here and the contract thing has really made me look closely at the bulls available. Genetics is such a long term game I think you have to use best available. Saying that 100% with you genetics doesn't make up for poor management or disease.

Jacquesdalad · 12-02-2017 09:54PM

Has anybody any idea when the best before date is up on the 350k+ tons of milk powder on the intervention stocks?

Are the eu pushing out that boat by exchanging stocks?

Will 'they' keep bailing us out in extreme circumstances?

Fixture · 12-02-2017 11:23PM

thisyear wrote: »

I'm sure there is plenty that have and I think we have to thank LIC for kicking the Irish companies into producing the goods finally. Imo genomics has changed the game here and the contract thing has really made me look closely at the bulls available. Genetics is such a long term game I think you have to use best available. Saying that 100% with you genetics doesn't make up for poor management or disease.

Very true. Genetics is only the base you work from - thousands of farmers are using the best AI bulls for years but there's still massive range in performance. If it was that simple, every horse by a good stallion would be a Derby contender.

Remember genetics only explains a small percentage of the difference between animal performance.

LIC genetics have been good for Ireland but I often wonder if some people feel they need to use NZ bulls every year to prove their belief in the kiwi system.

Keepgrowing · 13-02-2017 08:16AM

thisyear wrote: »

This whole think has been some farce. I wouldn't buy off them now in a fit. Their bulls are way off on ebi as well so really don't understand their position. Fair play to icbf for standing up to them. Was taking to one of the lads in Moorepark who was questioning their latest bulls anyway, saying there is a lot of American and Dutch genetics in the kiwi herd and we know how well that served Ireland in the past.

They may be off the target EBI but it's becoming a race for the highest EBI offspring every time a cow is served.

The EBI system is working, one only has to look to see the advances in fertility and solid production to see that.

The Kiwi cross is also achieving this through BW and has been for longer. One thing to be wary of is cow size.

Keepgrowing · 13-02-2017 08:19AM

Fixture wrote: »

Very true. Genetics is only the base you work from - thousands of farmers are using the best AI bulls for years but there's still massive range in performance. If it was that simple, every horse by a good stallion would be a Derby contender.

Remember genetics only explains a small percentage of the difference between animal performance.

LIC genetics have been good for Ireland but I often wonder if some people feel they need to use NZ bulls every year to prove their belief in the kiwi system.

You ask a really good question

silly · 13-02-2017 10:17AM

Are there any Dairygold farmers here?

My husband has asked my advice and really I wouldn't have a clue so I said I might ask you lot.

So a year ago Dairygold offered their famers to set the price of milk to 30c - it was 20c at the time and he signed on the dotted line. It is 30c now so if raises between now and Aug he will still recieve his 30c. Now they have asked them if they want to set it at 30c for 2017 2018 and 2019....He spoke with one of the reps who said that with brexit and Trump - the price could plummet....but of course he would say that.

Does anyone have any advice? I really don't know much about the whole brexit and Trump thing affect the dairy farmers here in Ireland. Should he take the 30c and run??? (he said 2007 was his best year when it went up to 40c)

Thanks in Advance.

whelan2 · 13-02-2017 10:19AM

silly wrote: »

Are there any Dairygold farmers here?

My husband has asked my advice and really I wouldn't have a clue so I said I might ask you lot.

So a year ago Dairygold offered their famers to set the price of milk to 30c - it was 20c at the time and he signed on the dotted line. It is 30c now so if raises between now and Aug he will still recieve his 30c. Now they have asked them if they want to set it at 30c for 2017 2018 and 2019....He spoke with one of the reps who said that with brexit and Trump - the price could plummet....but of course he would say that.

Does anyone have any advice? I really don't know much about the whole brexit and Trump thing affect the dairy farmers here in Ireland. Should he take the 30c and run??? (he said 2007 was his best year when it went up to 40c)

Thanks in Advance.

What % of the milk is fixed?

Mooooo · 13-02-2017 10:48AM

silly wrote: »

Are there any Dairygold farmers here?

My husband has asked my advice and really I wouldn't have a clue so I said I might ask you lot.

So a year ago Dairygold offered their famers to set the price of milk to 30c - it was 20c at the time and he signed on the dotted line. It is 30c now so if raises between now and Aug he will still recieve his 30c. Now they have asked them if they want to set it at 30c for 2017 2018 and 2019....He spoke with one of the reps who said that with brexit and Trump - the price could plummet....but of course he would say that.

Does anyone have any advice? I really don't know much about the whole brexit and Trump thing affect the dairy farmers here in Ireland. Should he take the 30c and run??? (he said 2007 was his best year when it went up to 40c)

Thanks in Advance.

Last year the most he could fix was 15% of the previous years supply. It only added less than a cent to my overall price for the year, it may reduce it this year. Basically what he needs to work out is would he be able to make enough of a margin with the milk price at 30c. It's not about the best and worst years but about taking away some of the risk of the bad one but you also lose out on some of the potential of a the good one. Sit down with the manager and see what price he'd get for his milk at his solids at the fixed price and you can work out how much you'd lose or gain at prices above and below that. It'll be easier to decide looking at the numbers

silly · 13-02-2017 10:52AM

whelan2 wrote: »

What % of the milk is fixed?

Haven't a notion!

silly · 13-02-2017 10:52AM

Mooooo wrote: »

Last year the most he could fix was 15% of the previous years supply. It only added less than a cent to my overall price for the year, it may reduce it this year. Basically what he needs to work out is would he be able to make enough of a margin with the milk price at 30c. It's not about the best and worst years but about taking away some of the risk of the bad one but you also lose out on some of the potential of a the good one. Sit down with the manager and see what price he'd get for his milk at his solids at the fixed price and you can work out how much you'd lose or gain at prices above and below that. It'll be easier to decide looking at the numbers

I will say that to him, Thanks very much.

blackdog1 · 13-02-2017 12:48PM

whelan2 wrote:

What % of the milk is fixed?

5 or 10%. Won't make a huge difference, most people will fix I'm on the fence, though I'll probably bite mainly because the eu have still mountains of milk powder in intervention.

kowtow · 13-02-2017 02:12PM

silly wrote: »

I will say that to him, Thanks very much.

It's a bet.. or perhaps more politely a respectable bet, a hedge - same as the one you make when you pay to insure the farmhouse or the tractor. You don't (or shouldn't) feel cheated if the house doesn't burn down and you have still lost the premium you paid.

Which is *not* to say that it is always a good bet or a sensible bet, because as others have said all depends upon the price they are able to fix at and the price you would (will have) got otherwise. Nobody knows, not the co-op, not anyone.

If it is a relatively small proportion of the milk you are fixing, then the overall effect will be diluted anyway, so it shouldn't be enough to lose sleep over. I don't know about DG terms but it may also be that using this scheme is the only way to get access (or greater access) to future schemes, which is wrong, but nevertheless something to take into account.

All in all there is no wrong or right answer, it all depends on circumstances, but it is well worth working out the figures (with solids etc.) precisely and understanding exactly what bet you are being asked to make. That way whichever way you decide to go this time you'll feel more comfortable making a decision over similar schemes in the future.

alps · 13-02-2017 03:39PM

kowtow wrote: »

I don't know about DG terms but it may also be that using this scheme is the only way to get access (or greater access) to future schemes, which is wrong, but nevertheless something to take into account.

.

While glanbia operate this stipulation, I fear the other coops will go that road too. We will have an annual offering of these fixed price schemes, and as farmers become more involved and intertwined in them, they will become the new milk supply agreements, as farmers continually sign themselves in for a further 3 years.

Mainly operated through ornua, who in any case would be fixed price selling, the fact is the price would have been returned to the farmer in any case. However it's beyond me to calculate , how much better off a farmer will be if he takes up every offering as opposed to taking up none. And because of the above clause, he would be forced to partake in all, or none..

It would be interesting to debate what the situation will be where fixed price contracts extend beyond the term of the milk supply agreements.

kowtow · 13-02-2017 08:37PM

alps wrote: »

However it's beyond me to calculate , how much better off a farmer will be if he takes up every offering as opposed to taking up none. And because of the above clause, he would be forced to partake in all, or none..

It would be interesting to debate what the situation will be where fixed price contracts extend beyond the term of the milk supply agreements.

It's beyond me to calculate too, although I will admit that it is a little tempting to do so. It amounts to an unspecified put option with an unknown premium (the profit or loss on the first fixed contract) on an as yet unannounced futures contract (the subsequent schemes you may or may not buy access to) at an unknown strike price (the price of milk in that contract), with - I hardly need point out - an unknowable outcome.

If I was asked to put a value on participation I could say with confidence that it might be worth something.

Signpost · 13-02-2017 09:23PM

What time is milking time for all of ye folks? Having a discussion with the old lad about milking at 630 and 430 so be finished in the evening for 6 and you'd swear I was on about pulling his fingernails off when I mention a 430 evening start. Would have thought those would be common enough hours?

whelan2 · 13-02-2017 09:28PM

Signpost wrote: »

What time is milking time for all of ye folks? Having a discussion with the old lad about milking at 630 and 430 so be finished in the evening for 6 and you'd swear I was on about pulling his fingernails off when I mention a 430 evening start. Would have thought those would be common enough hours?

What time do you milk at now? We start around 6.15am and 4-415pm. Usually back in house for 6pm

Morris Moss · 13-02-2017 09:29PM

Signpost wrote: »

What time is milking time for all of ye folks? Having a discussion with the old lad about milking at 630 and 430 so be finished in the evening for 6 and you'd swear I was on about pulling his fingernails off when I mention a 430 evening start. Would have thought those would be common enough hours?

Start at 7:30 and 5:15 here, like the thought of starting at 4:30 in the evening myself, good few neighbours milk at those times I think.

freedominacup · 13-02-2017 09:42PM

kowtow wrote: »

It's beyond me to calculate too, although I will admit that it is a little tempting to do so. It amounts to an unspecified put option with an unknown premium (the profit or loss on the first fixed contract) on an as yet unannounced futures contract (the subsequent schemes you may or may not buy access to) at an unknown strike price (the price of milk in that contract), with - I hardly need point out - an unknowable outcome.

If I was asked to put a value on participation I could say with confidence that it might be worth something.

This sort of thinking has caused some amount of trouble globally since the turn of the century. I'd say when you were in the throes of ir you couldn't think of a direct route from your desk to the jacks.

Signpost · 13-02-2017 09:52PM

whelan2 wrote: »

What time do you milk at now? We start around 6.15am and 4-415pm. Usually back in house for 6pm

Start at 7 ish and 630 in the evening, usually be in for 730 / 8. Its horrible being out so late in the evening thou, especially during the summer.

kowtow · 13-02-2017 10:12PM

freedominacup wrote: »

This sort of thinking has caused some amount of trouble globally since the turn of the century. I'd say when you were in the throes of ir you couldn't think of a direct route from your desk to the jacks.

We had messengers for that kind of thing

freedominacup · 13-02-2017 10:12PM

Signpost wrote: »

Start at 7 ish and 630 in the evening, usually be in for 730 / 8. Its horrible being out so late in the evening thou, especially during the summer.

Set the target. What are ye doing from 4-6 most days. Set a routine. Getting feeding and yard work out of the way in the morning if possible. Don't start anything after lunch that can't be abandoned until tomorrow once milking time arrives. Not always possible and this time of year you'll only annoy yourself trying to be finished every evening. Once most stock are out though and summer routine beds in yard should be closed by six every evening.

mahoney_j · 13-02-2017 11:36PM

Signpost wrote: »

What time is milking time for all of ye folks? Having a discussion with the old lad about milking at 630 and 430 so be finished in the evening for 6 and you'd swear I was on about pulling his fingernails off when I mention a 430 evening start. Would have thought those would be common enough hours?

7 am and 4.15/4.30 and gone out of yard by 6.dosnt always work that way especially in spring,/silage outside of that it's a rarity you'd see me in yard after 6 .i know lads locally that milk around 9.30/10'and 8 in evening everyone tonthere own but I'd hate that

Timmaay · 13-02-2017 11:37PM

Signpost wrote: »

Start at 7 ish and 630 in the evening, usually be in for 730 / 8. Its horrible being out so late in the evening thou, especially during the summer.

Last 2months 8.45 and 5.15, 2rows so usually all done by 6 ha. For most the year it's 7.45/8am start, and 5pm the evening, with a strict enough all done by 6.15 (need to be gone by 6.30 3days a week). Did I mention that I am not a morning person ha.

Signpost · 14-02-2017 12:30AM

Would ye notice any difference milking them with a 9 & then 15 hour gap? Thinking here tends to be as near 12 hours but just for time with herself / any outside the house activities would be great to finish that bit earlier.

Timmaay · 14-02-2017 12:40AM

Signpost wrote: »

Would ye notice any difference milking them with a 9 & then 15 hour gap? Thinking here tends to be as near 12 hours but just for time with herself / any outside the house activities would be great to finish that bit earlier.

I've certainly never done 12 and 12, and 2bh have no real ambition ever to do so, milking is enough of a chore for me as is, not to mind making it even worse ha. But from reading up about it, whereas we are definitely dropping the likes of 2 litres a day, milk solids aren't effected nearly as bad. We still hit a peak of about 26/27litres (flat rate feeding of about 2kg in June), also reasonably milky cow type in the herd here still, the 15:9hrs holds them back slightly on the milk so hopefully helps reduce the loss of condition post calving.

The next step of a lazy fcuker like myself is to look at OAD ha.

dar31 · 14-02-2017 07:13AM

Signpost wrote: »

What time is milking time for all of ye folks? Having a discussion with the old lad about milking at 630 and 430 so be finished in the evening for 6 and you'd swear I was on about pulling his fingernails off when I mention a 430 evening start. Would have thought those would be common enough hours?

No set start time here,just a set time to be finished by.
Plan to be in the house for 6 hoping to be done for 5.30 this summer once new parlour is running.

silly · 14-02-2017 10:54AM

To those home for 6pm - Is this what is happening currently - even with calving? My husband milks at about 7.30 and 5.30 but he still isn't in the door until about 9 and still has to go back out again after eating for about an hour. He has about 24 calves now I think and 50 cows. Is this normal? He is doing everything he can now to avoid the dreaded scour - which he has had problems with the last number of years.

With regards to the milk percentage - at the moment he is on a set price of 30c on 15% of his milk - until Aug - The new offer is 10% at 30c so if he takes it up he will have 25% on set price until Aug. The rep said there will probably be another offer at the end of the yr after the current offer runs out. So he might just wait for that instead of having the 25% on set price.

Dairy chit chat II

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