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The irony of ireland`s homelessness crisis

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    #92
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,078 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    A recession is the perfect time to invest. The problem is that the government intervened and stopped the recession from happening.
    So there was no recession?
    At all?
    realitykeeper wrote: »
    the next recession will end capitalism in the west.
    Do you have a date for when this will occur?


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    #93
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    kippy wrote: »
    The end of capitilism. That's a pretty bold statement.
    What do you suggest it will be replaced with?
    The pendulum is swinging wildly now so either Communism or Fascism.


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    #94
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    kbannon wrote: »
    So there was no recession?
    At all?
    Do you have a date for when this will occur?
    There is no comparison between the little bit of economic turbulence seen since 2008 and the crash that would have happened without state intervention. I am expecting western economies to destabilize by the end of this year and it will be all downhill from there.


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    #95
    worded
    Registered Users Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭worded


    The bigger problem with bailing the banks is we gave away our pension fund.
    There is a crisis looking in the future as we are all living longer and are we having less kids ?


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    #96
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,078 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    There is no comparison between the little bit of economic turbulence seen since 2008 and the crash that would have happened without state intervention
    So now you're saying there was a recession?
    realitykeeper wrote: »
    I am expecting western economies to destabilize by the end of this year and it will be all downhill from there.
    Didn't you say the same thing last year?


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    #97
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    kbannon wrote: »
    So now you're saying there was a recession?


    Didn't you say the same thing last year?
    There was an arrested recession but it cannot be contained indefinitely. It must run its course, only now it has a lot more pent up energy to wreak havoc around the globe.

    Yes I said the depression would start in 2017, last year. I am saying the same thing this year.


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    #98
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,465 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    There is no comparison between the little bit of economic turbulence seen since 2008 and the crash that would have happened without state intervention. I am expecting western economies to destabilize by the end of this year and it will be all downhill from there.
    Can you outline what you would define as "downhill"?


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    #99
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,078 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    There was an arrested recession but it cannot be contained indefinitely. It must run its course, only now it has a lot more pent up energy to wreak havoc around the globe.
    Hang on. You first said there was no recession. Now you're saying there was? Can you please be definitive?
    (Given the widely accepted definition, there either was or there wasn't one!)
    realitykeeper wrote: »
    Yes I said the depression would start in 2017, last year. I am saying the same thing this year.
    I'm quite sure that you forecasted it to be last year. Still, as most of what you post comes across as bluff, does it really matter?


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    #100
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    kbannon wrote: »
    Hang on. You first said there was no recession. Now you're saying there was? Can you please be definitive?
    (Given the widely accepted definition, there either was or there wasn't one!)


    I'm quite sure that you forecasted it to be last year. Still, as most of what you post comes across as bluff, does it really matter?
    I said the government stopped the recession. From that, you said that I said there was not a recession. So let me repeat what I did say: The government stopped the recession.

    If you are "quite sure", then post the quote. For my part, I reiterate my assertion that capitalism in the west will to all intents and purposes stop, by the end of this year. Until, this year I have never made such a near term estimate.


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    #101
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,078 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    I said the government stopped the recession. From that, you said that I said there was not a recession. So let me repeat what I did say: The government stopped the recession.

    If you are "quite sure", then post the quote. For my part, I reiterate my assertion that capitalism in the west will to all intents and purposes stop, by the end of this year. Until, this year I have never made such a near term estimate.

    You actually said that they "stopped the recession from happening". (note how I too an emphasise to make a pojnt)The "from happening" bit implies explicitly that it didn't happen despite your bogus claim otherwise.

    As for your claims about doom and gloom due to happen last year, I'm not going to spend my time searching through a years worth of your drivel just to prove a point.


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    #102
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    kippy wrote: »
    Can you outline what you would define as "downhill"?

    I wish I could say for sure how it will play out when things go bad. If the US and EU are to continue issuing bonds and if those bonds are to have integrity, hyperinflation is a possibility. Poverty on an unimaginable scale will hit first world countries. The second world e.g. China will also suffer but they will recover quite quickly while the west will descend into a terrible malaise from which there will be no recovery for many generations.

    War will proliferate.


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    #103
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    kbannon wrote: »
    You actually said that they "stopped the recession from happening". (note how I too an emphasise to make a pojnt)The "from happening" bit implies explicitly that it didn't happen despite your bogus claim otherwise.

    As for your claims about doom and gloom due to happen last year, I'm not going to spend my time searching through a years worth of your drivel just to prove a point.
    The recession would have happened to continue for years had the government not interfered. They stopped it by meddling with market forces.

    Splendid! Then as the authority on my opinion, I confirm the fact that I did not say last year that the depression would begin last year. I said it would begin this year and I reaffirm that conviction now.


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    #104
    Suryavarman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭Suryavarman


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    By getting rid of the minimum wage, Ireland can compete with China. Needless to say, politicians and civil servants would need to have their salaries cut by at least 75% before the minimum wage is abolished. The dole would also have to be reduced substantially and prices would also fall.

    Great idea. All we have to do is abolish the minimum wage and then people will decide to stop going to college, instead deciding to work for €3 an hour in some sh*tty factory so that we can "compete" with China.


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    #105
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Suryavarman wrote: »
    Great idea. All we have to do is abolish the minimum wage and then people will decide to stop going to college, instead deciding to work for €3 an hour in some sh*tty factory so that we can "compete" with China.
    Working in a factory is better than the dole. Lowering costs makes making stuff possible.


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    #106
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,449 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    Working in a factory is better than the dole. Lowering costs makes making stuff possible.

    would you work for €3 an hour?

    That works out around €3000 per year


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    #107
    Suryavarman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭Suryavarman


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    Working in a factory is better than the dole. Lowering costs makes making stuff possible.

    Working in an office is better than working in a factory.


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    #108
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    would you work for €3 an hour?

    That works out around €3000 per year

    Everything is relative. What matters is how far will your €3000 go. Granted if pay was cut across the board, living standards would fall in the short term because the cost of imports would not reduce. It would however become cheaper to manufacture here.

    The reason I think it is important to can back manufacturing is because the economy as it is cannot be sustained.


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    #109
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Suryavarman wrote: »
    Working in an office is better than working in a factory.

    Which is fine provided the work you are doing directly reduces imports or brings income from outside the country, preferably from the sustainable economies beyond the EU and US.


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    #110
    caff
    Registered Users Posts: 954 ✭✭✭caff


    There aren't the same number of factory jobs as there was in the past. Automation reduces the need for humans. Factories are returning to the usa but with far less employee. They won't solve any employment problems.


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    #111
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    Everything is relative. What matters is how far will your €3000 go. Granted if pay was cut across the board, living standards would fall in the short term because the cost of imports would not reduce. It would however become cheaper to manufacture here.

    The reason I think it is important to can back manufacturing is because the economy as it is cannot be sustained.

    this is just bizarre thinking . What kind of manufacturing are you talking about ?


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    #112
    Suryavarman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭Suryavarman


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    Which is fine provided the work you are doing directly reduces imports or brings income from outside the country, preferably from the sustainable economies beyond the EU and US.

    It doesn't really matter what level imports or exports are. Office jobs are better than factory jobs.


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    #113
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    caff wrote: »
    There aren't the same number of factory jobs as there was in the past. Automation reduces the need for humans. Factories are returning to the usa but with far less employee. They won't solve any employment problems.
    The minimum wage forces employers to either automate or leave. Trump is wrong to try protectionist policies. The US needs to compete and that means getting rid of the minimum wage. If the US starts a trade war with China, it will lose.


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    #114
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Suryavarman wrote: »
    It doesn't really matter what level imports or exports are. Office jobs are better than factory jobs.
    If you were hungry you would be glad of a factory job. China in the sixties suffered horrendous famines so the Chinese understand the concept of working unglamorous jobs and saving.

    Here the service sector jobs that presently exist are only possible because the economy was bailed out. The Irish economy needs to get real on so many fronts. For example, top tier civil servants should not be paid as much as top people in the private sector because the private sector gives while the public sector is a parasite.

    Another example is the people who borrowed and defaulted should be kicked out of the bank`s houses so that house prices can fall to a level where younger people who did not get caught up in the nuttiness of the naughties can get a house at a reasonable price. Its bad enough having to bail out the banks because of these defaulters without having to put up with them not getting out of the houses everyone else was forced to pay for.


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    #115
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    marienbad wrote: »
    this is just bizarre thinking . What kind of manufacturing are you talking about ?
    Obviously efforts should be made to get the very best manufacturing jobs, - that is already being done. But then when the best people have been employed by those companies and the next (lower skilled/educated) tranche of the workforce needs employment, more basic less specialized manufacturing jobs should be available, and that means competing which means getting rid of the minimum wage. However, to get rid of the minimum wage, politicians and top tier civil servants must also take pay cuts.


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    #116
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    Obviously efforts should be made to get the very best manufacturing jobs, - that is already being done. But then when the best people have been employed by those companies and the next (lower skilled/educated) tranche of the workforce needs employment, more basic less specialized manufacturing jobs should be available, and that means competing which means getting rid of the minimum wage. However, to get rid of the minimum wage, politicians and top tier civil servants must also take pay cuts.

    what kind of manufacturing jobs ?


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    #117
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,465 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    If you were hungry you would be glad of a factory job. China in the sixties suffered horrendous famines so the Chinese understand the concept of working unglamorous jobs and saving.

    Here the service sector jobs that presently exist are only possible because the economy was bailed out. The Irish economy needs to get real on so many fronts. For example, top tier civil servants should not be paid as much as top people in the private sector because the private sector gives while the public sector is a parasite.

    Another example is the people who borrowed and defaulted should be kicked out of the bank`s houses so that house prices can fall to a level where younger people who did not get caught up in the nuttiness of the naughties can get a house at a reasonable price. Its bad enough having to bail out the banks because of these defaulters without having to put up with them not getting out of the houses everyone else was forced to pay for.
    Top people in the public service are paid nothing close to what top people in the privivate secotor earn.
    Calling the public sector a parasite is ridiculous. The public sector delivers services and supports the running of the state. Very valuable services. Surely you wouldnt expect these to be delivered for for free.
    As for minimum wage going to 3 euro?how do you expect people for pay for oil,eelctronics,or indeed anything else?
    Again,i worry about some of the posts here


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    #118
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    I'm so surprised that this thread is still going. I'm trying to think of a diplomatic word for the majority of posts but can't think of one so I'd better stay civil.

    Lets just say that not a lot of it makes an ounce of sense and I gave up trying to figure them out about 5 pages ago.


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    #119
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    IIRC a certain poster in this thread was advocating nationalising the Dell factory a few years ago and having Ireland attempt to run this factory in competition with other manufacturers. It's really implausible stuff for a number of reasons.


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    #120
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    IIRC a certain poster in this thread was advocating nationalising the Dell factory a few years ago and having Ireland attempt to run this factory in competition with other manufacturers. It's really implausible stuff for a number of reasons.

    What does IIRC stand for?


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    #121
    Walter H Price
    Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭Walter H Price


    Lets be honest none of us really know what would have happened had we let the banks go to the wall , not that we ever had that option, it would have been a massive step into the unknown and could have done potentially more damage then the bailout has done.

    But again its a mute point , Europe (Germany) dictated that the Irish government would gaurentee the banks as it has done and is still doing across across Europe, Italian , Spanish and Greek banks remain in serious financial difficulty but will not be allowed fail ans this would have a detrimental impact on the value and integrity of the single currency.

    No point dwelling on this issue , the crisis to an extent and the solution to it were far in a way beyond the control of any Irish political party or politician, any future major action taken in relation to the Irish banks will also be directed by Brussels not the Dail.


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