NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

Kristopherus · 17-01-2017 01:14AM

rob808 wrote: »

I wonder what he say when 300,000 rural homes have upto 1GB broadband let see LTE match that .

Up to 1gb my ass:D. More likely an actual .1 of a gb.:D

BandMember · 17-01-2017 01:17AM

rob808 wrote: »

I wonder what he say when 300,000 rural homes have upto 1GB broadband let see LTE match that .

Didn't he already say that people don't need those speeds or don't need FTTH at all because Imagine are more than capable or providing what people need? :rolleyes:

tsue921i8wljb3 · 17-01-2017 02:52AM

BandMember wrote: »

What are the pings and peak time speeds like? The daily data limit is a joke as well, especially these days in the streaming age.

FTTH will have none of those problems. Let's see what he says then...

Here is the data from the last month.

marno21 · 17-01-2017 02:59AM

It's good to see WISPs such as Westnet reselling FTTH products.

Imagine and other similar WISP CEOs can continue flogging dead horses or they can evolve. Otherwise they can look forward to a wind up order.

xxyyzz · 17-01-2017 10:24AM

BandMember wrote: »

What are the pings and peak time speeds like? The daily data limit is a joke as well, especially these days in the streaming age.

FTTH will have none of those problems. Let's see what he says then...

20gb daily allowance.

Off-peak I get up to 80Mbps, usually 70 - 80. Peak times I get anywhere between 40 - 60. Ping times are in the region of 20ms.

I don't agree that LTE should be part of the NBP but it is a quantum leap beyond what was previously available to rural dwellers and will be for the foreseeable future. I keep on hearing "wait until they fill up the masts, the contention will be crazy" but it hasn't dropped at all and my local mast is near capacity. Aside from the daily cap, it is far superior to the FTTC product I was getting from Vodafone when I lived in town. I'm currently 5 miles out the country. Wimax was a catastrophe for imagine, but the LTE product is bloody good. This is coming from someone whose next best alternative is 0.5Mbps during peak hours.

The biggest issue with Imagine's LTE is probably that it's capabilities are currently maxed out leaving no room to scale up in the future so it is only a medium term solution.

damienirel · 17-01-2017 12:45PM

marno21 wrote: »

It's good to see WISPs such as Westnet reselling FTTH products.

Imagine and other similar WISP CEOs can continue flogging dead horses or they can evolve. Otherwise they can look forward to a wind up order.

Agreed. The public have a very short term memory - 3 won the award for the first national broadband plan with 3g technology - and that worked out beautifully for everybody in the long term didn't it?
lte(4g) is only a step up and "imagine" think they can pull the same stunt again - they're having a laugh.
If people want fast wireless then they should pay a premium for it.
It would serve them better to demand faster (cheaper in the long term) fixed connections.

marno21 · 17-01-2017 09:43PM

damienirel wrote: »

Agreed. The public have a very short term memory - 3 won the award for the first national broadband plan with 3g technology - and that worked out beautifully for everybody in the long term didn't it?
lte(4g) is only a step up and "imagine" think they can pull the same stunt again - they're having a laugh.
If people want fast wireless then they should pay a premium for it.
It would serve them better to demand faster (cheaper in the long term) fixed connections.

Considering the difference in bandwidth demands between 2008 and now you could argue LTE is an even poorer solution for broadband needs.

You'd forget that 3's rollout wasn't able to provide for a nation without Netflix, Android boxes, RTE Player, and most sites were lower bandwidth. These days bandwidth demands are exponentially more than before and keep going that way. Good luck to Imagine trying to provide that kind of bandwidth.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 17-01-2017 09:53PM

marno21 wrote: »

Considering the difference in bandwidth demands between 2008 and now you could argue LTE is an even poorer solution for broadband needs.

You'd forget that 3's rollout wasn't able to provide for a nation without Netflix, Android boxes, RTE Player, and most sites were lower bandwidth. These days bandwidth demands are exponentially more than before and keep going that way. Good luck to Imagine trying to provide that kind of bandwidth.

Well they have already been excluded from the official process so it goes without saying that the Department does not see them as a viable alternative to FTTH. My only concern would be that if they could possibly make a case that the NBP would be breaching state aid rules by intervening in areas where Imagine has deployed LTE. I don't know if they could make a compelling argument but I would not put it past them to try.

rob808 · 17-01-2017 10:36PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

Well they have already been excluded from the official process so it goes without saying that the Department does not see them as a viable alternative to FTTH. My only concern would be that if they could possibly make a case that the NBP would be breaching state aid rules by intervening in areas where Imagine has deployed LTE. I don't know if they could make a compelling argument but I would not put it past them to try.

There only one problem they can't meet the requirements like upload being 6mb at all times even the 30mb the download seem all over place on people LTE speed test .Then there the houses that can't get it plus they don't have a open access network so you be paying €60 and no choice .Im pity sure if another wisp did LTE at €45 with higher download limit people would leave imagine,but not many wisp could given imagine has a monpoloy of rural Ireland.I for one would rather NBP open access network were I could pick my ISP not force to pick imagine because there best rural option around.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 17-01-2017 10:40PM

rob808 wrote: »

There only one problem they can't meet the requirements like upload being 6mb at all times even the 30mb the download seem all over place on people LTE speed test .Then there the houses that can't get it plus they don't have a open access network so you be paying €60 and no choice .Im pity sure if another wisp did LTE at €45 with higher download limit people would leave imagine,but not many wisp could given imagine has a monpoloy of rural Ireland.I for one would rather NBP open access network were I could pick my ISP not force to pick imagine because there best rural option around.

They are all valid reasons why the legal action could fail. As I say I am only speculating here. Legal action may make no sense for them financially.

ED E · 19-01-2017 05:41PM

ED E wrote: »

On a slightly darker sidenote Naughten was hit while cycling today, we came quite close to losing our champion.

Seriously though, nasty situation that I've personally been through, wish him a speedy recovery.

Interviewed on Today w/ SOR this morning. Sounds like he's making a good recovery.
http://pca.st/nJAV

tsue921i8wljb3 · 22-01-2017 03:45PM

Could anybody with a Business Post subscription give us the gist of this article please? I guess it is referring to Openeir's blue line land grab.

https://www.businesspost.ie/politics/minister-canney-accuses-eir-trying-capture-market-376574

Johnboy1951 · 22-01-2017 05:52PM

Is Canney only now wakening up?

The Minister of State at the Office of Public Works, Seán Canney, has accused Eir of trying to “capture the market” ahead of the awarding of the state’s €500 million national broadband contract.

KOR101 · 24-01-2017 04:48PM

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/eir-s-catch-22-the-national-broadband-plan-1.2948301

rob808 · 24-01-2017 10:37PM

The NBP targeting 750,000 homes so they must of took out 150,000 because going by that article it 900,000 houses. http://www.longfordleader.ie/video/home/232009/video-minister-denis-naughten-says-every-place-name-in-longford-will-be-put-on-the-digital-map.html#.WIbguvmHOJo.twitter

daithi7 · 25-01-2017 09:50PM

Praetorian wrote: »

I am very sceptical due to past experience with regard to government announcements. Fibre everywhere is what we should be aiming at.

Wireless AND 4G is what will end up with, with far less than 100% coverage.

Fibre everywhere is unfortunately hugely expensive. With most of the expense being in the last 5km link from the exchange.

Also with a country like Ireland, with a very low population density, and issues like one off housing dotted all over the countryside miles from the nearest village, universal ftth is simply an unattainable goal at the moment. Fttc is a much more attainable goal in built up areas, with others getting fibre to the local exchange. The technologies for carrying broadband over the last 5k over copper and wireless are also improving continually, which should hopefully facilitate very good high speed broadband penetration without having to dig up the whole country.

damienirel · 25-01-2017 11:09PM

daithi7 wrote: »

Fibre everywhere is unfortunately hugely expensive. With most of the expense being in the last 5km link from the exchange.

Also with a country like Ireland, with a very low population density, and issues like one off housing dotted all over the countryside miles from the nearest village, universal ftth is simply an unattainable goal at the moment. Fttc is a much more attainable goal in built up areas, with others getting fibre to the local exchange. The technologies for carrying broadband over the last 5k over copper and wireless are also improving continually, which should hopefully facilitate very good high speed broadband penetration without having to dig up the whole country.

Total rubbish it will eventually be fibre in place of copper regardless of government intervention. Wireless being the most expensive option. I think we'll see less and less of it without a good business case. Also why would you need to dig up the whole country - most of the blue lines will be pole drops with very little digging happening as eir will be reusing old ducts.

MajesticDonkey · 25-01-2017 11:15PM

daithi7 wrote: »

The technologies for carrying broadband over the last 5k over copper and wireless are also improving continually, which should hopefully facilitate very good high speed broadband penetration without having to dig up the whole country.

If only someone was suggesting to "dig up the whole country"...oh wait, no one is.

ED E · 26-01-2017 12:34AM

Motivations aside the fibre everywhere mantra is a lie. We won't have 100% by 2025. Maybe 85, 90 if we put €1B into the NBP. There's still a big role for fill in last mile.

There's a strong argument for Meteor to place femtocells at the end of the "blue lines".

damienirel · 26-01-2017 07:02AM

ED E wrote: »

Motivations aside the fibre everywhere mantra is a lie. We won't have 100% by 2025. Maybe 85, 90 if we put €1B into the NBP. There's still a big role for fill in last mile.

There's a strong argument for Meteor to place femtocells at the end of the "blue lines".

What is the copper landline penetration at the moment I wonder if it's 90%?

KOR101 · 26-01-2017 04:55PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

Could anybody with a Business Post subscription give us the gist of this article please? I guess it is referring to Openeir's blue line land grab.

https://www.businesspost.ie/politics/minister-canney-accuses-eir-trying-capture-market-376574

The gist.....

Canney accuses Eir of trying "capture the market" Says they should be excluded from the NBP process if they are interfering with competitive tendering.

He says Eir is trying to make it uneconomic for other bidders.

Accuses Eir of providing broadband to certain homes, excluding others. Cites locals in his home village where several households and businesses have been left out. Brothers living 20 yards apart, one with it, one without.

Article says "It is understood that the Department of Communications has received similar complaints from other areas around the country about Eir's broadband rollout. But it is powerless to intervene because Eir is free to make e commercial about which homes it wants to connect"

I'm hoping this came from the Department and is a sign that they plan to continue to face down Eir. Rob spotted the reduction to 750,000 from 900,000 in what the minister said recently. But this may just be a partial roll-back from the previous increase from 600,000 to 900,000, rather than anything to do with the rural programme.

For what it's worth, I have no problem with Eir succeeding in removing the 300,000 homes, so long as they sign the commitment contract. But, they may feel that they can still win at the EU level without it.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 26-01-2017 05:05PM

Thanks KOR101. According to Minister Naughten last Tuesday

A formal procurement process is now in train to select a company or companies who will roll-out a new high speed broadband network within the State Intervention Area. The Department will also shortly update the High Speed Broadband map and finalise this Intervention Area for bidders, taking into account any industry investments that have not materialised and potential other new investments.

Hopefully we will not have long to wait before finding out.

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2017012400077?opendocument

rob808 · 26-01-2017 10:43PM

ED E wrote: »

Motivations aside the fibre everywhere mantra is a lie. We won't have 100% by 2025. Maybe 85, 90 if we put €1B into the NBP. There's still a big role for fill in last mile.

There's a strong argument for Meteor to place femtocells at the end of the "blue lines".

The bidders said predominantly FTTH and fixed wireless were it to costly for FTTH.It might not cost €1B for NBP with Eir taking out 300,000 houses.

marno21 · 29-01-2017 01:47AM

Discussion on wifi and rural broadband from the Last Word on Today FM Tuesday:

A lot of misinformation in there imo. It's easy for people to get confused about this stuff let alone when they're being misinformed.

http://www.todayfm.com/player/podcasts/The_Last_Word_with_Matt_Cooper/The_Last_Word_with_Matt_Cooper/66052/2/Andy_O39Donoghue_answers_your_WiFi_woes_/cp_2

MajesticDonkey · 29-01-2017 12:49PM

marno21 wrote: »

Discussion on wifi and rural broadband from the Last Word on Today FM Tuesday:

A lot of misinformation in there imo. It's easy for people to get confused about this stuff let alone when they're being misinformed.

http://www.todayfm.com/player/podcasts/The_Last_Word_with_Matt_Cooper/The_Last_Word_with_Matt_Cooper/66052/2/Andy_O39Donoghue_answers_your_WiFi_woes_/cp_2

Borderline suggestions there that automatic updates are a bad thing.

ItHurtsWhenIP · 29-01-2017 12:52PM

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

Borderline suggestions there that automatic updates are a bad thing.

When I heard that I wrote a strongly worded e-mail to TodayFM about having journalist "experts" providing dangerous advice. I've had to do it before, but I presume they can get their buddies on cheaper than real experts. :mad:

wexfordman2 · 29-01-2017 01:03PM

marno21 wrote: »

Discussion on wifi and rural broadband from the Last Word on Today FM Tuesday:

A lot of misinformation in there imo. It's easy for people to get confused about this stuff let alone when they're being misinformed.

http://www.todayfm.com/player/podcasts/The_Last_Word_with_Matt_Cooper/The_Last_Word_with_Matt_Cooper/66052/2/Andy_O39Donoghue_answers_your_WiFi_woes_/cp_2

Sweet mother!!! I don't think u have heard something as bad as that..ever by a so called technology journalist.

The Cush · 29-01-2017 01:30PM

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Sweet mother!!! I don't think u have heard something as bad as that..ever by a so called technology journalist.

We've heard similar before, in the years leading up to terrestrial analogue TV switchoff in late 2012 the airwaves were filled with journalists (tech and otherwise) giving all sorts of misleading information and in the case of RTÉ they had the experts on campus, the then RTÉ Networks, who doing the actual upgrade but they were absent from any discussions.

Eventually they rolled out one of their own Brian Geraghty (Saorview: Brian here on boards) to give clear advice via TV, radio and press. Unfortunately he had to leave boards because of abuse from certain quarters IIRC.

SkepticQuark · 31-01-2017 10:48PM

With regards to that TodayFM piece, I think it says it all when the title has "WiFi woes" in it....

KOR101 · 03-02-2017 10:59AM

Wireless pioneer battling the State on national broadband plan
Interview: Seán Bolger of Imagine claims the route to rural connectivity is wireless

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/wireless-pioneer-battling-the-state-on-national-broadband-plan-1.2960688

NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

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