Child refugees -majority to be males aged 17???

jmayo · 02-02-2017 04:11PM

Does anyone know if some of the Calais minors we are getting are Afghani ?

I would say there is a good chance seeing that a sizable portion of the residents of the jungle in Calais were from Afghanistan.

Lets hope they aren't of the same mindset as three Afghan minors in Austria that have been sentenced to prison for the gang rape of a 21 year old student in a train station in Vienna last April.

BTW one of the excuses offered was that they didn't know it was illegal because women are treated differently at home.

Oh and rather than use the Express or Daily Mail links, in case some would argue it was right wing propaganda, I thought i would use Reuters instead.

The Vienna court sentenced two Afghan 18-year-olds to six years in prison and one 16-year-old to five years, a court spokeswoman said, adding that the maximum sentence was halved to 7-1/2 years because the accused were under 18 when the attack took place.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-austria-rape-idUSKBN15F1HD

There have also been other attacks including the attempted rape of a 20 year woman in Graz when a 17-year-old asylum seeker from Afghanistan attacked her on her way home.

Does anyone recall the rape of the Afghan lady who was acting as interpreter for journalist in the jungle camp in October 2015 ?
Three Afghan men were arrested in Paris in November for the rape.
But it's alright they aren't minors, they are 30 to 35 years old.

But why do I think there does seem to be a bit of recurring theme here. :rolleyes:

I am sure someone, probably someone in authority, will be along soon to tell me that it is all a coincidence and women are as likely to be gang raped by French men, Irish men, Austrians, etc, etc

jmayo · 02-02-2017 04:13PM

Brian? wrote: »

Is this a joke? Of course they do, they've had them for as long as I can remember. My wife is an immigrant, so I'm probably more aware of than most. Don't worry she's not brown or Muslim, so I'm safe.

It's shocking that you won't admit you were incorrect about seeking asylum in the first EU country you land in.

Why do I find it highly unlikely she lost her passport and identification documents before she arrived in Ireland.

alastair · 02-02-2017 04:18PM

jmayo wrote: »

Does anyone know if some of the Calais minors we are getting are Afghani ?

I would say there is a good chance seeing that a sizable portion of the residents of the jungle in Calais were from Afghanistan.

Lets hope they aren't of the same mindset as three Afghan minors in Austria that have been sentenced to prison for the gang rape of a 21 year old student in a train station in Vienna last April.

Does anyone know if there are any Canadian marching bands coming her for the St Patricks Day parade? Because they might have the same mindset as that fellah Alexandre Bissonnette who murdered six people the other day.

Never mind the mass of other Canadians who haven't bothered anyone. Think of the children!

jmayo · 02-02-2017 04:29PM

alastair wrote: »

Does anyone know if there are any Canadian marching bands coming her for the St Patricks Day parade? Because they might have the same mindset as that fellah Alexandre Bissonnette who murdered six people the other day.

Never mind the mass of other Canadians who haven't bothered anyone. Think of the children!

No matter how facetious you try to be, you can't alter the fact Afghans pose a bigger threat in Europe than Canadians, even if they are playing musical instruments.

I suppose we will now see Alexandre Bissonnette trotted out as a response to every negative story about "migrants"/"refugees".
It does make a change from the usual references to Anders Breivik.

Granted I do suppose it is easier to remember the names of individual right wing terrorists since there aren't a hundred of those of a different persuasion and political/cultural outlook :rolleyes:.

alastair · 02-02-2017 04:36PM

jmayo wrote: »

No matter how facetious you try to be, you can't alter the fact Afghans pose a bigger threat in Europe than Canadians.

Really? You've collated similar stories about Canadian criminality in Europe and compared? And you're assured that any other notional Afghans or Canadians are likely to follow suit?

I'm sensing an absence of actual facts.

Brian? · 02-02-2017 04:38PM

jmayo wrote: »

Why do I find it highly unlikely she lost her passport and identification documents before she arrived in Ireland.

What has that to do with my post?

Brian? · 02-02-2017 04:39PM

alastair wrote: »

Does anyone know if there are any Canadian marching bands coming her for the St Patricks Day parade? Because they might have the same mindset as that fellah Alexandre Bissonnette who murdered six people the other day.

Never mind the mass of other Canadians who haven't bothered anyone. Think of the children!

My wife is Canadian. My son is a yank. I'm worried they're both going to mass murder me now. Ban them both.

jmayo · 02-02-2017 04:56PM

alastair wrote: »

Really? You've collated similar stories about Canadian criminality in Europe and compared? And you're assured that any other notional Afghans or Canadians are likely to follow suit?

I'm sensing an absence of actual facts.

I would be banned by half of the posters on these threads if I really said what I was sensing.

I think we would have heard if there were a preponderance of gang rapes and sexual assaults being carried out by Canadians in Europe.
Somehow I think it would be making the news :rolleyes:

Actually the funny thing is if you look up Canadian rapists in Europe in Google one of the first links is to the alleged rape of a Canadian tourist in Paris.

Now on the other if you were to look up something relating to Afghans and rape in Europe it is quiet astounding how many incidents one finds.

Now of course I am not citing Google as the arbiter of all facts on European justice, just a good pointer to stories covered in press of actual rapes and sexual assaults.

Brian? wrote: »

What has that to do with my post?

I just wondered if your wife as an entrant to Ireland (didn't know she was Canadian at time or was never implying she was non legal) was as remiss as all those refugees/migrants that are always loosing their passports and documents.

After all the likes of the above poster would like me to do comparison tests and collate data concerning Canadians and the nationalities of the new arrivals to Europe.

Oh and btw the term Yank can be considered mildly impolite or even offensive to some Americans.
Just thought you should know, as I presume you would not want to ever cause offense.

Brian? · 02-02-2017 05:01PM

jmayo wrote: »

I would be banned by half of the posters on these threads if I really said what I was sensing.

I think we would have heard if there were a preponderance of gang rapes and sexual assaults being carried out by Canadians in Europe.
Somehow I think it would be making the news :rolleyes:

Actually the funny thing is if you look up Canadian rapists in Europe in Google one of the first links is to the rape of a Canadian tourist in Paris.

Now on the other if you were to look up something relating to Afghans and rape in Europe it is quiet astounding how many incidents one finds.

Now of course I am not citing Google as the arbiter of all facts on European justice, just a good pointer to stories covered in press of actual rapes and sexual assaults.

I just wondered if your wife as an entrant to Ireland (didn't know she was Canadian at time or was never implying she was non legal) was as remiss as all those refugees/migrants that are always loosing their passports and documents.

After all the likes of the above poster would like me to do comparison tests and collate data concerning Canadians and the nationalities of the new arrivals to Europe.

Why do you keep winking?

My post was in response to a question about whether the have computers to check immigration documents at the airport. They do. I've no idea why you're trying to wrap that up in something else.

As the husband and father of non EU nationals I can assure you they check everyone coming in on a non EU passport. End of point.

rgossip30 · 02-02-2017 05:13PM

Brian? wrote: »

Is this a joke? Of course they do, they've had them for as long as I can remember. My wife is an immigrant, so I'm probably more aware of than most. Don't worry she's not brown or Muslim, so I'm safe.

It's shocking that you won't admit you were incorrect about seeking asylum in the first EU country you land in.

They don't use them in EU queue and just look at your passport there in November. Safe from what ?

I said it was changed in the Dublin 3 regulation and do not dispute it anymore .Shocking that you want to continue this .
Asylum seekers are however returned if an irregular immigration history is proven .Links provided earlier pay attention !

alastair · 02-02-2017 05:48PM

jmayo wrote: »

I think we would have heard if there were a preponderance of gang rapes and sexual assaults being carried out by Canadians in Europe.

Newsflash! There's no preponderance of gang rapes and sexual assaults being carried out by Afghans in Europe either.

Like I said, you're engaging in disseminating 'alternative' facts.

enricoh · 02-02-2017 05:59PM

jmayo wrote: »

No matter how facetious you try to be, you can't alter the fact Afghans pose a bigger threat in Europe than Canadians, even if they are playing musical instruments.

I suppose we will now see Alexandre Bissonnette trotted out as a response to every negative story about "migrants"/"refugees".
It does make a change from the usual references to Anders Breivik.

Granted I do suppose it is easier to remember the names of individual right wing terrorists since there aren't a hundred of those of a different persuasion and political/cultural outlook :rolleyes:.

Nah, God bless him he'll still try - unless you have a U.N. report to prove the future intentions of all Afghanis and Canadians.
Which of the two countries residents are most likely to come over for two weeks, spend a few grand, get the photos n head home.
N which are most likely to require social welfare, free house, etc. N have extremist views, anti women n gays etc etc
It's too hard to call j mayo, I'll look up paddy power n see what odds there giving on each country. Cos without that U.N. report I can't decide!

CMOTDibbler · 02-02-2017 06:04PM

enricoh wrote: »

Nah, God bless him he'll still try - unless you have a U.N. report to prove the future intentions of all Afghanis and Canadians.
Which of the two countries residents are most likely to come over for two weeks, spend a few grand, get the photos n head home.
N which are most likely to require social welfare, free house, etc. N have extremist views, anti women n gays etc etc
It's too hard to call j mayo, I'll look up paddy power n see what odds there giving on each country. Cos without that U.N. report I can't decide!

N?

Who's N? Or is it the mathematical expression for any given number?

Widdershins · 02-02-2017 06:06PM

Brian? wrote: »

Is this a joke? Of course they do, they've had them for as long as I can remember. My wife is an immigrant, so I'm probably more aware of than most. Don't worry she's not brown or Muslim, so I'm safe.

It's shocking that you won't admit you were incorrect about seeking asylum in the first EU country you land in.

Are you sure?

I'm pleased this family were given leave to stay and appeal since the boy is doing so well where he is, but if you read the case details, they contradict you?

What's this about?

''The law states refugees should apply for asylum in the first country of safety they reach and Lawand's family had their fingerprints taken in Greece and Germany.

The UK does not deport to Greece but does to Germany which is why the family were told they would sent there. In December, a spokeswoman for the Home Office said it was "fair" the UK should honour international rules agreed between EU countries that asylum seekers should settle in the first country they enter.''

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/14/deaf-boy-6-fled-iraq-isis-threatened-kill-disabled-youngsters/

Brian? · 02-02-2017 06:19PM

jmayo wrote: »

Oh and btw the term Yank can be considered mildly impolite or even offensive to some Americans.
Just thought you should know, as I presume you would not want to ever cause offense.

It really isn't.

oscarBravo · 02-02-2017 06:45PM

Widdershins wrote: »

What's this about?

''The law states refugees should apply for asylum in the first country of safety they reach...''

It doesn't. Has it occurred to you that the Telegraph could be wrong?

If the Dublin Regulation indeed states that, you can quite easily demonstrate it by quoting from the text of the Regulation. It's funny how all those who are adamant about what the Regulation states never actually quote it.

Brian? · 02-02-2017 06:49PM

Widdershins wrote: »

Are you sure?

I'm pleased this family were given leave to stay and appeal since the boy is doing so well where he is, but if you read the case details, they contradict you?

What's this about?

''The law states refugees should apply for asylum in the first country of safety they reach and Lawand's family had their fingerprints taken in Greece and Germany.

The UK does not deport to Greece but does to Germany which is why the family were told they would sent there. In December, a spokeswoman for the Home Office said it was "fair" the UK should honour international rules agreed between EU countries that asylum seekers should settle in the first country they enter.''

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/14/deaf-boy-6-fled-iraq-isis-threatened-kill-disabled-youngsters/

So you quote the Telegraph even though Oscar Bravo already quoted the regulation. Why do you think the Telegraph is more correct than the actual regulation? Possibly because you want it to be so?

rgossip30 · 02-02-2017 06:53PM

Brian? wrote: »

So you quote the Telegraph even though Oscar Bravo already quoted the regulation. Why do you think the Telegraph is more correct than the actual regulation? Possibly because you want it to be so?

Regulations get bent in the real world its not cut and dry and a feeding ground for lawyers .

jmayo · 02-02-2017 07:00PM

alastair wrote: »

Newsflash! There's no preponderance of gang rapes and sexual assaults being carried out by Afghans in Europe either.

Like I said, you're engaging in disseminating 'alternative' facts.

So are you are saying
the three Afghan minors found guilty of raping a student in a railway station in Vienna didn't happen ?
The rape of a female Afghan translator in the Calais jungle didn't happen and she and her male colleague are liars ?
The attempted rape of young woman in Graz by another Afghan minor didn't happen either and that is why police are investigating ?

I suppose next thing you will tell me was it was only an anecdotal story about the mass sexual assaults in Cologne on New Years Eve 2016 ?

This site is becoming a joke when actual rape cases, under police investigation and the subject of guilty verdicts in a court of law, are now being pedaled as "alternative facts" by pro migrant/refugee posters.

And since you are so are fond of comparisons can you find three comparable cases involving say the aforementioned Canadians ?

Widdershins · 02-02-2017 07:00PM

Brian? wrote: »

So you quote the Telegraph even though Oscar Bravo already quoted the regulation. Why do you think the Telegraph is more correct than the actual regulation? Possibly because you want it to be so?

oscarBravo wrote: »

It doesn't. Has it occurred to you that the Telegraph could be wrong?

If the Dublin Regulation indeed states that, you can quite easily demonstrate it by quoting from the text of the Regulation. It's funny how all those who are adamant about what the Regulation states never actually quote it.

No, I didn't read OB's comment about the regulation. I have time constraints and haven't read the last x-number of pages on the thread. I read the last page on which I commented, asking what is the quoted bit in the article about and why it contradicted what you were saying. Of course it occurred that the Telegraph might be wrong-that's why I asked!

I've seen the media get it wrong, but it's more unusual to pluck a 'fact' out of thin air like that. I thought it likely that there's something to it, even if it's not up to date. The article doesn't seem to offer any other reason for the potential deportation, at all. And has a quote from a Home Office Spokkesperson. And a BBC article says much the same as the Telegraph. The odds are that there's something to it, or so I thought.In all honesty I find the BBC and Telegraph more consistently reliable and impartial than most Boards users, and it would be very odd for both to quote the home office erroneously..but no journalist is infallible.

alastair · 02-02-2017 07:04PM

jmayo wrote: »

So are you are saying...

For clarity, and to avoid any more needless lists, I'm saying:

There's no preponderance of gang rapes and sexual assaults being carried out by Afghans in Europe either.

Hope that helps.

CMOTDibbler · 02-02-2017 07:05PM

rgossip30 wrote: »

Regulations get bent in the real world its not cut and dry and a feeding ground for lawyers .

It's been around for twenty years. In that time, if it's been bent by lawyers, there should be some evidence of that.

rgossip30 · 02-02-2017 07:09PM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

It's been around for twenty years. In that time, if it's been bent by lawyers, there should be some evidence of that.

Looking at the Orac stats for 2016 .

' Determinations made under the Dublin Convention / EU Dublin Regulation' is 578 . One is inclined to question the number and circumstances ? Well its a two way street . The state has lawyers too who will return or deport .

http://www.orac.ie/website/orac/oracwebsite.nsf/page/AJNR-AGWD4L9271523-en/$File/2016%2011%20ORAC%20Nov%20monthly%20stats%20book.pdf

CMOTDibbler · 02-02-2017 07:16PM

rgossip30 wrote: »

Looking at the Orac stats for 2016 .

' Determinations made under the Dublin Convention / EU Dublin Regulation' is 578 . One is inclined to question the number and circumstances ? Well its a two way street . The state has lawyers too who will return or deport .

http://www.orac.ie/website/orac/oracwebsite.nsf/page/AJNR-AGWD4L9271523-en/$File/2016%2011%20ORAC%20Nov%20monthly%20stats%20book.pdf

I fail to see how that answers my question.

rgossip30 · 02-02-2017 07:50PM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I fail to see how that answers my question.

Lawyers will argue the case , the regulations in court ,use reasons why the person should stay or go .
Individual cases are not discussed .

CMOTDibbler · 02-02-2017 08:02PM

rgossip30 wrote: »

Lawyers will argue the case , the regulations in court ,use reasons why the person should stay or go .
Individual cases are not discussed .

You're just guessing. Where's the actual evidence that the Dublin Convention has been 'bent' by lawyers?

And cases of deportation have been reported in the press. So there should be plenty of evidence out there. If it exists.

rgossip30 · 02-02-2017 08:07PM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

You're just guessing. Where's the actual evidence that the Dublin Convention has been 'bent' by lawyers?

And cases of deportation have been reported in the press. So there should be plenty of evidence out there. If it exists.

The word bent being rather strong lets just leave it at argued around and that applies to both sides .

recedite · 02-02-2017 09:55PM

rgossip30 wrote: »

http://www.orac.ie/website/orac/oracwebsite.nsf/page/AJNR-AGWD4L9271523-en/$File/2016%2011%20ORAC%20Nov%20monthly%20stats%20book.pdf

Seem to be mainly Pakistan, Albania, Zimbabwe, Nigeria, Afghanistan.
Places known more for gang wars than real wars.

The Dublin convention did not exactly say a refugee had to apply for asylum in the first EU country they encountered. They had to register in the first country, but another country could then offer the asylum, as Germany did in 2015.

On the other hand, the other country could also choose to send them back to the previous safe EU country, as the UK has decided to do here.

Widdershins · 02-02-2017 10:58PM

recedite wrote: »

Seem to be mainly Pakistan, Albania, Zimbabwe, Nigeria, Afghanistan.
Places known more for gang wars than real wars.

The Dublin convention did not exactly say a refugee had to apply for asylum in the first EU country they encountered. They had to register in the first country, but another country could then offer the asylum, as Germany did in 2015.

On the other hand, the other country could also choose to send them back to the previous safe EU country, as the UK has decided to do here.

Thanks for clearing that up

oscarBravo · 03-02-2017 12:20AM

recedite wrote: »

The Dublin convention did not exactly say a refugee had to apply for asylum in the first EU country they encountered. They had to register in the first country...

I see you're still subscribing to the theory that confidently repeating a lie will magically make it true.

I'll make this as clear as I can: the Dublin Regulation imposes no obligations whatsoever on asylum seekers. Anyone who claims that it does is either making stuff up to advance an agenda, or mindlessly parroting someone else who is doing so.

Child refugees -majority to be males aged 17???

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