Louise O Neill on rape culture.

hatrickpatrick · 01-02-2017 07:54PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Quotas are bananas and a subversion of democracy.
When people think women are equally as able as men to govern a country, they will say so by voting for more women. At the moment, it is clear the wider population does not believe women are up to the task - they have the vote now and could vote so it they did.
But try explaining that to LON.

That's SJW thinking in and of itself TBH. Just because people aren't voting for female TDs en masse, that doesn't mean that the population doesn't believe that women in general are up to the task, it means that women whose policies align with the general public simply aren't standing for election often enough. To the vast majority of the people, demographic identity or membership simply is not a factor when choosing a TD.

RabbleRouser2k · 01-02-2017 09:56PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

That's SJW thinking in and of itself TBH. Just because people aren't voting for female TDs en masse, that doesn't mean that the population doesn't believe that women in general are up to the task, it means that women whose policies align with the general public simply aren't standing for election often enough. To the vast majority of the people, demographic identity or membership simply is not a factor when choosing a TD.

True-like, Ivana Bacik ran plenty of times, for example, and got nowhere as a TD. Her policies were limited to one thing, and one thing alone-abortion in Ireland. Okay, fine-but what else?
I think she even spearheaded trying to, essentially, force abortion into Ireland based on the cases of three women. Again, that's the entirely WRONG way to do anything-but this is SJW thinking.

I voted for the marriage referendum-couldn't see a reason not to, tbh. But if it was shoved on people, via means other than a referendum, I would oppose it based on not allowing a democratic vote in Irish law.

Bacik's push went nowhere, and rightfully so. Again, if a vote is put for abortion, I'll vote yes-but if the vote loses, then that is the way of the people.
Just don't force it on people-I'm sure Bacik (or other third wavers) would appreciate people being given a 'choice'.

The Rape of Lucretia · 01-02-2017 10:05PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

To the vast majority of the people, demographic identity or membership simply is not a factor when choosing a TD.

Exactly. They simply choose the best regardless. And by and large, rather than a 50-50 ish split one might expect, they dont consider women good enough. But thats democracy. Even women, in general, whether feminist or not, predominantly vote for men when it comes to choosing someone to best represent them.

mzungu · 01-02-2017 10:22PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Exactly. They simply choose the best regardless. And by and large, rather than a 50-50 ish split one might expect, they dont consider women good enough. But thats democracy. Even women, in general, whether feminist or not, predominantly vote for men when it comes to choosing someone to best represent them.

Not at all. They vote for the policies they want, not because they are male or female.

Look at Latin America (renowned for being macho and all that), they have no issue with voting women into power in powerhouse nations like Brazil, Argentina, and Chile. They do so because they want somebody to represent them and what they stand for.

02-02-2017 12:06AM

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/will-you-take-a-day-off-work-on-march-8th-to-strike-4-repeal-1.2958268

Will Miss O'Neill take a day off from scribbling her nonsensical 12 year old rants/ramblings/white straight men are the devil, for the Examiner to go to this

pumpkin4life · 02-02-2017 12:15AM

Sasha Wide Squash wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/will-you-take-a-day-off-work-on-march-8th-to-strike-4-repeal-1.2958268

Will Miss O'Neill take a day off from scribbling her nonsensical 12 year old rants/ramblings/white straight men are the devil, for the Examiner to go to this

0:05 - 0:07 in that video: People's lives and health are in danger.

I don't know what your opinions are on abortion, but this is pure fùcking bullshìt cap'n. Ireland is one of the safest countries in the world to give birth in.

The irony is mad as well. What about the kids life?

jameorahiely · 02-02-2017 12:26AM

but could include taking an annual leave day off work, refraining from domestic work for the day, wearing black in solidarity or staging a walkout during your lunch break,

We’ve had an overwhelming amount of enthusiasm from secondary school and college students,

:pac: :pac:

Ulysses Gaze · 02-02-2017 12:57AM

jameorahiely wrote: »

but could include taking an annual leave day off work, refraining from domestic work for the day, wearing black in solidarity or staging a walkout during your lunch break,

We’ve had an overwhelming amount of enthusiasm from secondary school and college students,

:pac: :pac:

Now, now...a couple of cafe's have also shown support too.

Let's just have the referendum and be done with it.

pumpkin4life · 02-02-2017 01:03AM

I should just add there:

If you want to make your campaign persuasive and marketable, stop using a bunch of angry looking wans wearing depressing black clothes and are heading off to a funeral to argue your points. It's like the bennies who wear cùnty pink hats on their head. Pink ain't exactly a color you can take seriously. I think either la-la land or yous should be sectioned like.

RabbleRouser2k · 02-02-2017 04:19AM

So Of course LoN is sharing that 'Salma Hayek-shame her for using logic' article that I posted earlier... Hypocrisy-gaw.

She's also only recently become aware of the Ann Lovett story-ya know, the one that even got featured on Scannail, has a song by Christy Moore, but when a 'friend' of hers wrote a play about it, then she noticed...

She's also donating to ACLU and urging others to do the same...um, maybe LoN, dear, you might be better off either using that money to pay rent to mam and dad, or ya know, get your own place?

02-02-2017 10:20AM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Exactly. They simply choose the best regardless. And by and large, rather than a 50-50 ish split one might expect, they dont consider women good enough. But thats democracy. Even women, in general, whether feminist or not, predominantly vote for men when it comes to choosing someone to best represent them.

I'll quote you so you'll have to actively ignore the facts that show your argument to be wrong rather than just "not see it".
Women have the same success rate as men when running for election in Ireland. When the proportion of women candidates increases so does the proportion of women TDs. So how can one claim that people won't vote for them.
As well as that, women make up a greater proportion of the parties' candidates than of independents. How can one suggest that the parties don't choose women when it's clear that women simply don't put themselves forward as much?

Widdershins · 02-02-2017 10:25AM

I fully expect LON to harvest from this thread for her articles, and I don't think I could blame her if she did, since her name's in the title, but it'd be great if she could try to absorb some of the viewpoints shared here. Especially those of the male commenters (commentators?). She's probably got a very rigid and inflexible mindset because she doesn't want to deviate from the Rape Culture, Patriarchy stance.

Widdershins · 02-02-2017 10:26AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'll quote you so you'll have to actively ignore the facts that show your argument to be wrong rather than just "not see it".
Women have the same success rate as men when running for election in Ireland. When the proportion of women candidates increases so does the proportion of women TDs. So how can one claim that people won't vote for them.
As well as that, women make up a greater proportion of the parties' candidates than of independents. How can one suggest that the parties don't choose women when it's clear that women simply don't put themselves forward as much?

RoL's posts are gas

They're always interesting but I think he/she's good at pulling peoples' legs

02-02-2017 10:30AM

Widdershins wrote: »

I fully expect LON to harvest from this thread for her articles, and I don't think I could blame her if she did, since her name's in the title, but it'd be great if she could try to absorb some of the viewpoints shared here. Especially those of the male commenters (commentators?). She's probably got a very rigid and inflexible mindset because she doesn't want to deviate from the Rape Culture, Patriarchy stance.

Nah she'll play the victim role, I think she has mentioned this thread due to a family member seeing it and being "upset".....I would be fascinated to what her family (especially male)members think about her posts

pumpkin4life · 02-02-2017 10:35AM

Widdershins wrote: »

I fully expect LON to harvest from this thread for her articles, and I don't think I could blame her if she did, since her name's in the title, but it'd be great if she could try to absorb some of the viewpoints shared here. Especially those of the male commenters (commentators?). She's probably got a very rigid and inflexible mindset because she doesn't want to deviate from the Rape Culture, Patriarchy stance.

What do SJWs/feminists/extreme LGBT/white supremacists have in common?

Narcissism or the willingness to live in a bubble; to bend and shape reality to support your own views. They will go out of their way to keep this illusion going, even when they're into cut their own nose off to spite their face territory. Entertainment, the friends you keep, all of that going on in your life is there to serve her view of reality and nothing more.

Apparently she lives with her parents despite being loaded?

She won't go near this thread. Too many truth bombs bouncing around the place.

ivytwine · 02-02-2017 10:36AM

pumpkin4life wrote: »

I should just add there:

If you want to make your campaign persuasive and marketable, stop using a bunch of angry looking wans wearing depressing black clothes and are heading off to a funeral to argue your points. It's like the bennies who wear cùnty pink hats on their head. Pink ain't exactly a color you can take seriously. I think either la-la land or yous should be sectioned like.

You realise that when Homer got sectioned for wearing pink it was satire, not a recommendation, right?

If they wore rainbow colours they'd be castigated for trying to make abortion look like fluffy fun for all the family.

I don't have the spirit for a debate on abortion at this hour of the morning but the current situation is actually quite dangerous and legally unstable. At the risk of being told off for "tone policing" I do agree that the Repeal movement has made a few missteps, turning the jumpers into a fashion accessory being one, and trying to make abortion into something freeing rather than something that isn't pleasant but sometimes necessary. As Panti said, it won't play well in the sticks.

Widdershins · 02-02-2017 10:37AM

Sasha Wide Squash wrote: »

Nah she'll play the victim role, I think she has mentioned this thread due to a family member seeing it and being "upset".....I would be fascinated to what her family (especially male)members think about her posts

I suspect that information isn't something she'd share unless she could use it to support her stance.

I can't see what's upsetting about it. Bar one or two comments about her appearance earlier on (positive iirc) and a photo of her babygro which she did share on Twatter so it was already in the public domain, and she does write about her fashion sense!..most of the thread is really just discussing the things she's putting forward as her opinion, which are strong opinions and printing those in the newspaper comes with the price of having to accept that the public might air contrary, strong opinions.

Widdershins · 02-02-2017 10:40AM

pumpkin4life wrote: »

What do SJWs/feminists/extreme LGBT/white supremacists have in common?

Narcissism or the willingness to live in a bubble; to bend and shape reality to support your own views. They will go out of their way to keep this illusion going, even when they're into cut their own nose off to spite their face territory. Entertainment, the friends you keep, all of that going on in your life is there to serve her view of reality and nothing more.

Apparently she lives with her parents despite being loaded?

She won't go near this thread. Too many truth bombs bouncing around the place.

Selective quotes from friends or followers, so.

Wibbs · 02-02-2017 10:44AM

Widdershins wrote: »

She's probably got a very rigid and inflexible mindset because she doesn't want to deviate from the Rape Culture, Patriarchy stance.

and/or… this is her stall and this is what she's selling and this is what pays her bills. No way would she or any of the other professional victims change their tune. Not unless it was economically viable to do so and it isn't. They're in too deep and have too much invested in it. Hell she's got a regular column for her troubles and a documentary and now a film in development and loads of the twatterati and acolytes of the Church Of The Perpetual Victim supporting her in their bubble. Would you change your tune in the face of that?

TBH a part of me hopes she and her ilk are cynical trolls and are milking it for all it's worth(like that Milo gobshíte). Not exactly morally defensible, but less a worry than if they actually believe the majority of this worldview.

pumpkin4life · 02-02-2017 10:47AM

ivytwine wrote: »

You realise that when Homer got sectioned for wearing pink it was satire, not a recommendation, right?

If they wore rainbow colours they'd be castigated for trying to make abortion look like fluffy fun for all the family.

I don't have the spirit for a debate on abortion at this hour of the morning but the current situation is actually quite dangerous and legally unstable. At the risk of being told off for "tone policing" I do agree that the Repeal movement has made a few missteps, turning the jumpers into a fashion accessory being one, and trying to make abortion into something freeing rather than something that isn't pleasant but sometimes necessary. As Panti said, it won't play well in the sticks.

Course. Half my posts on boards.ie are just excuses to post semi relevant Simpsons pictures tbh.

I'm just saying if the abortion campaign want people to take them seriously, they have to re-do their whole image. A bunch of grumpy looking wans wearing black or pink on their heads ain't going to hep their message.

Wibbs · 02-02-2017 10:48AM

pumpkin4life wrote: »

Apparently she lives with her parents despite being loaded?

How is she "loaded"? Don't be convinced by the public profile. You might be surprised how many at a similar level in the Irish public eye are dreading end of month bills. She may be making an OK living from sales of the books, her columns, the advance for the film(which won't be large) but loaded? I seriously doubt it.

pumpkin4life · 02-02-2017 10:52AM

Wibbs wrote: »

How is she "loaded"? Don't be convinced by the public profile. You might be surprised how many at a similar level in the Irish public eye are dreading end of month bills. She may be making an OK living from sales of the books, her columns, the advance for the film(which won't be large) but loaded? I seriously doubt it.

Would she be running close to the 100k mark?

ivytwine · 02-02-2017 11:03AM

pumpkin4life wrote: »

Course. Half my posts on boards.ie are just excuses to post semi relevant Simpsons pictures tbh.

I'm just saying if the abortion campaign want people to take them seriously, they have to re-do their whole image. A bunch of grumpy looking wans wearing black or pink on their heads ain't going to hep their message.

Fair enough, that's a perfectly cromulent reason

TBH I don't think pro choice people can win. It does make people angry on both sides, primarily these people are women, they wear black and they're seen as angry and depressing, they wear colours and they're trivialising things.

It's not a glamorous or pleasant subject and I don't see any way they can campaign for it without pissing someone off.

mzungu · 02-02-2017 11:09AM

pumpkin4life wrote: »

I'm just saying if the abortion campaign want people to take them seriously, they have to re-do their whole image. A bunch of grumpy looking wans wearing black or pink on their heads ain't going to hep their message.

As a matter of interest, how do you think they should campaign?

Widdershins · 02-02-2017 11:14AM

ivytwine wrote: »

Fair enough, that's a perfectly cromulent reason

TBH I don't think pro choice people can win. It does make people angry on both sides, primarily these people are women, they wear black and they're seen as angry and depressing, they wear colours and they're trivialising things.

It's not a glamorous or pleasant subject and I don't see any way they can campaign for it without pissing someone off.

cromulent

tritium · 02-02-2017 11:17AM

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Democracy and equality. Do you really think it's that far out of an idea. I wonder why.

We already have democracy. All members of government and indeed the dail are elected. Even with quotas theres isnt parity. Should we penalise voters and restrict their choice? That doesnt seem very democratic..

Wibbs · 02-02-2017 11:31AM

pumpkin4life wrote: »

Would she be running close to the 100k mark?

If someone like that was even at half that mark I'd pass decent muster as a new viral meme for "shocked". There is usually the assumption that Professional Public Eye Person = Loaded and in many cases it is far from the truth. Yes many journalists/writers are doing well enough for themselves, some may even be "loaded" and fair play on both counts, but they are most certainly the minority, especially in a very small local market like Ireland.

Now a similar writer in the US, syndicated all over the place and showing up on the talk show/lecture circuit would be making nice money thanks very much, but local Irish writers with local(small) audiences? It would be like comparing Madonna with an Irish country and western singer doing the rounds of bars and clubs beyond the Pale. Might keep a roof over their heads but studio apartment in Manhattan it is not.

LON is well placed to make the jump to the US market and its financial returns. Young enough and presentable enough(but not threateningly so) and writes for the victim market very well(with her own victimhood stories with it), comes across as clever, but not too clever and makes all the right noises in her "quaint brogue" so could go over well with that sector of the US market(even her craziest stuff would be middle of the road in that potential audience). Which no doubt her agent is angling for and the flic could be the breakout avenue for that.

And TBH I say fair bloody play to her if she can crack that for however long it lasts(fickle market that it is). However the worldview behind all that is a worrying one for men and women and one that should not be encouraged for anyone, or society in general IMH. The world has increasingly become divided along ever more hard lines behind ever more histrionic and hysterical barricades and we need less of that not more.

jameorahiely · 02-02-2017 11:31AM

mzungu wrote: »

As a matter of interest, how do you think they should campaign?

Start a venga bus and hand out illegal drugs to students

Oh, that's their next plan isn't it

pumpkin4life · 02-02-2017 11:35AM

mzungu wrote: »

As a matter of interest, how do you think they should campaign?

Avoid facts and figures for the most part, stick to rhetoric and persuasion.

Appeal to people's innate need to feel important and part of something bigger. Your campaign should be trying to appeal to people in a way that people think: this is the next big thing, the next big step for equality of all people, that I was there in 2018 and it was barry. This is one of the reasons why the gay marriage referendum worked so well. It has to be done well though. If it is too blatantly obvious, then people will know they're being manipulated. You could go down the appeal to authority route (Irish people love authority) or the scare people, this is a backwards society route (probably won't work as well) as well.

Next, you need a big slogan. You need a Make America Great Again, Yes we can! Hope! or a Yes to Love, Yes Equality! Make Love the law line to throw out. Usually something that you can't really refute (who doesn't want love or America to not be great? that kind of thing), that is catchy and chanty with as few syllables as possible.

Then for both sides, you have an image problem:

Pro life: You've been successfully smeared with the "right wing massive Christian bellend who hates everyone" stereotype.

Pro choice: You've been smeared with the "fat feminist with blue hair who hates everyone" stereotype. You need to work to dispel that.

That's why dressing up in lgbt rainbows or in black won't work for example.

The former: can't take seriously.

The latter: people associate black with depression, darkness. People feel down watching a video like that. The opposite emotions you want to conjure up in people.

You need to push the message that "the vast majority of people support abortion but in secret" and that "they are normal, everyday people". The in/out crowd bias.

mzungu · 02-02-2017 11:36AM

jameorahiely wrote: »

Start a venga bus and hand out illegal drugs to students

Oh, that's their next plan isn't it

A bit like Ken Kesey did in the 60s? It could work. Or maybe not!

Louise O Neill on rape culture.

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