Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

grogi · 01-02-2017 12:02PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The problem I have is that they don't need to eliminate 44 K"W" charging for a useless efficiency gain. Faster charging is more practical, the range gained would be meaningless.

I might have not been clear about that - but that was my point. I cannot imagine what efficiency gain that would be.

I don't really care.

You're not the only one...

For power kW!! not KW, kw, Kw. The prefix for one thousand - kilo - is small k, the power unit is watt, capital W. So kW. I could accept hp, bhp or PS.

For battery capacity - kWh or MJ...

When talking about mileage, although technically more correct than kkm, I am not going to force the people to say Mm though... :]

01-02-2017 12:04PM

That's crazy if the Zoe works out it only has 200 Kms range on 40 Kwh, have to say I can't believe it.

grogi · 01-02-2017 12:08PM

Deleted User wrote: »

That's crazy if the Zoe works out it only has 200 Kms range on 40 Kwh, have to say I can't believe it.

No way I would say. This must be the fallout from VW scandal, they don't want to promise something that might, in very rare conditions, be not delivered.

Realistically speaking, 15 kWh/100 km and 38 kWh of usable capacity => 250 km of range...

ewj1978 · 01-02-2017 12:15PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I can't remember the code names for the different charger/motors.

Zoe R90 : 22kW charger but more efficient engine (about 15-20 kms more efficent)

Zoe Q90: 43kW charger but less efficient engine

I believe its to do with the engine manufacturer.

unkel · 01-02-2017 12:40PM

Deleted User wrote: »

What's going on in that video above I do not know.

You have to appreciate the environment is pretty brutal and far harsher than it ever will be here or in the UK. Snow, ice, freezing rain, average temps of about -5C. Heating and lights permanently on, dunno about the Zoe - didn't watch enough of it - but he was driving the Ioniq on studded tyres. Which are terrible for efficiency

It does seem that gen 2 cars like the Leaf and old Zoe suffer badly in cold weather (with lights and heat on). Perhaps the Ioniq suffers relatively less in bad circumstances.

Villain · 01-02-2017 01:08PM

69 Ioniq sold in January based on latest figures.

From FB group: 168 EVs sold. This is in progress so yay! 95 Leaf, 69 Ioniq, 2 Zoés, 1 Egolf and 1 i3. Also note 47 PHEVs and only 29 Hybrid Ioniqs.

kave2 · 01-02-2017 01:37PM

Anyone knows whats the current situation with Ioniq stock? Specifically the blue one?

bk · 01-02-2017 01:47PM

Villain wrote: »

69 Ioniq sold in January based on latest figures.

From FB group: 168 EVs sold. This is in progress so yay! 95 Leaf, 69 Ioniq, 2 Zoés, 1 Egolf and 1 i3. Also note 47 PHEVs and only 29 Hybrid Ioniqs.

I have to say, while Hyundai have created a great car with the Ioniq, it really feels like they missed an opportunity to be a real contender with Tesla.

Had they created the Ioniq as a pure EV, rather then a 3-in-1, they could have created it with underfloor batteries and a more optimised EV design and would thus be able to have 30, 40, 50 and maybe even 60kWh versions available today and I think it would sell like hotcakes depending on pricing. It could have given Tesla a real run for their money and would have gotten Hyundai lots of great press and mindshare.

Instead they were conservative and tried to play is "safe" with the comprised 3-in-1 design and I think they are in for a surprise that the hybrids aren't going to sell anywhere close to how they thought they would.

I just hope they don't take the wrong message from this, that all EV's sell bad, rather taking the message that they just didn't go the whole way and create a truly revolutionary BEV.

I have to say I'm really enjoying reading peoples experiences of the Ioniq. It feels like we are getting a great preview of what the Model 3 will be like.

The Ioniq has great energy efficiency and I think we will see that repeated with the model 3 due to similar sleek design and similar low drag numbers. The model 3 though will have the advantage of different optional battery sizes.

I do wonder based on the numbers we are seeing with the Ioniq, could Tesla get away with just a 45kWh battery in their base model and still hit their 215 miles EPA figures. It seems very likely.

01-02-2017 01:52PM

That's rather mad if the Ioniq is that efficient, I highly doubt the Ioniq will reach 250 kms in Summer though at even 100 Kph.

I really want to test drive it now.

01-02-2017 01:57PM

I do wonder with the Ioniq be enough to encourage Irish people to change ? I highly doubt it. It might make some EV enthusiasts buy it over the Leaf/Zoe but I doubt sales will be much greater than last year. And if they are it will be interesting to see if the Ioniq is responsible.

I just hope there is something special coming from Nissan for when my lease is up.

bk · 01-02-2017 02:10PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I do wonder with the Ioniq be enough to encourage Irish people to change ? I highly doubt it. It might make some EV enthusiasts buy it over the Leaf/Zoe but I doubt sales will be much greater than last year. And if they are it will be interesting to see if the Ioniq is responsible.

No, unfortunately not, it needs to be breaking the 200 mile / 300+ km barrier to do that IMO. Hopefully an updated version with a 45 kWh battery will get us there. However it is very close IMO.

I think it has gotten so much right, good looks, normal car looks, lots of nice gadgets, accurate range numbers, very power efficient. It just needs that little bit larger battery.

Deleted User wrote: »

I just hope there is something special coming from Nissan for when my lease is up.

I think Nissan needs a whole new, redesigned BEV now.

I don't think them just sticking a 40kWh battery will be enough. Not when we have seen the much greater efficiency of cars like the Ioniq. To be honest, Nissans choice of a tall upright design, with horrible drag numbers for an EV looks like a very poor choice now.

I think Nissan will need to follow Hyundai's lead now, a "normal" sedan type car with low drag numbers, but hopefully as a pure EV.

Water John · 01-02-2017 02:16PM

Yes BK, the 200 mile/300 km is the tipping point IMO also. Maybe that's because I live in Cork and want the Dublin trip without stopping as my benchmark. But I think it represents the distance for the vast majority of people.
That removes range as an issue.

Villain · 01-02-2017 02:24PM

Less than 0.5% of new car sales in January were EVs!

01-02-2017 02:25PM

I'd take a larger car any day over a more efficient one to be honest, especially if it can charge faster, 65 Kw would be pretty decent. Bets the 24 Kwh leaf hands down and by 50% charge the 24 Kwh Leaf charges at 30-35 Kw. Nearly half that of the Ioniq, the 30 Kwh Leaf will charge at about 45 Kw until 85-90% a lto better but a long way off the Ioniq. It will be interesting to see how many FCP's in Ireland can provide the power. I do hope the ESB install 100 KW + chargers when they sort out what they're doing with the network.

I like the higher position of the Leaf to be honest.

Nissan can wait another year, I'd say they will announce the MK II in the Summer and available to order Q4 2017, I hope !

They could be making efficiency tweaks now they know how efficient the Ioniq is.

bk · 01-02-2017 02:33PM

Water John wrote: »

Yes BK, the 200 mile/300 km is the tipping point IMO also. Maybe that's because I live in Cork and want the Dublin trip without stopping as my benchmark. But I think it represents the distance for the vast majority of people.
That removes range as an issue.

Yup same here but in reverse.

I keep mentioning Dublin to Cork at normal motorway speeds without stopping to charge, but actually I think that is a pretty normal benchmark for most people. Not necessarily Cork - Dublin, but rather roughly the distnace and time it represents.

I think most people can drive for close to three hours on a motorway without stopping. More then 3 hours, some people can do it, but I think most people would be thinking of stopping for twenty minutes for a break, coffee, etc. around the 3 hour mark.

I think when you can drive for 3 hours or so without stopping and then stop for 30 minutes and get another 2 hours or so driving from that charge, then I think all range anxiety disappears for most people.

Water John · 01-02-2017 02:39PM

For me, that gives me Cork - Belfast in one pit stop.
With all the other advantages of an EV, that would be a no brainer.

listermint · 01-02-2017 02:48PM

Tbh I think you lads are outside the norm most people don't make those trips once a year if ever.

And those that do would have a second family car to such purpose.

The gen population isn't driving between coasts regularly.

Water John · 01-02-2017 02:55PM

Listermint, I agree with you to a degree. The EV car has to achieve a working position where it can normally do all the driving needed during a day and charge up at night, (though solar may change that).
It is quite easy to knock out 200/250 miles getting some things done, especially if you live in a rural area, in a day.
By extension an EV thus covers both regular days and the occasional longer trip. In fairness EV is nearly there.

Then the wider pop has little excuse except, fear of change, itself.

listermint · 01-02-2017 02:57PM

Water John wrote: »

Listermint, I agree with you to a degree. The EV car has to achieve a working position where it can normally do all the driving needed during a day and charge up at night, (though solar may change that).
It is quite easy to knock out 200/250 miles getting some things done, especially if you live in a rural area, in a day.
By extension an EV thus covers both regular days and the occasional longer trip. In fairness EV is nearly there.

Then the wider pop has little excuse except, fear of change, itself.

I'd be abundantly surprised if the majority of people do anywhere near 250 miles a day rural or otherwise. Tbf.

Like to see some stats for Ireland on that

zilog_jones · 01-02-2017 03:01PM

bk wrote: »

Had they created the Ioniq as a pure EV, rather then a 3-in-1, they could have created it with underfloor batteries and a more optimised EV design and would thus be able to have 30, 40, 50 and maybe even 60kWh versions available today and I think it would sell like hotcakes depending on pricing. It could have given Tesla a real run for their money and would have gotten Hyundai lots of great press and mindshare.

The R&D costs for making a bespoke BEV would have been a lot higher. That could well be a contributing factor as to why the Nissan Leaf has had such a long product lifecycle. I think the current cost of larger batteries is also a big factor right now. A 60 kWh battery could easily add €15-20k to the car - look at the Tesla Model S pricing for comparison.

Instead they were conservative and tried to play is "safe" with the comprised 3-in-1 design and I think they are in for a surprise that the hybrids aren't going to sell anywhere close to how they thought they would.

The hybrid Ioniq doesn't seem to be selling well now, but maybe that's due to lack of supply or awareness? TBH I didn't even know it was on sale here. However, 1,343 non-plugin hybrids were sold in January compared to 168 EVs - there is still a lot of interest in hybrids, and as long as there is still range anxiety and concerns about the public charging infrastructure there will be a market for these. Still a great alternative to diesels as well.

I also think getting over 300 km range would certainly change a lot of people's minds about EVs. The Ioniq is a significant step up, but still not quite there...

stesaurus · 01-02-2017 03:12PM

The more I hear about the Ioniq's real world range the more it sounds like witchcraft. How is it so much more efficient than a tiny Zoe or even the i3.

unkel · 01-02-2017 03:13PM

Deleted User wrote: »

That's rather mad if the Ioniq is that efficient, I highly doubt the Ioniq will reach 250 kms in Summer

Why would you doubt it? All reports from real life are seeming to suggest it.

Only a couple of days ago fresh owner Fiery mutant in here did 170km, half of it motorway @110km/h and had 50km left. Lights on, heater at 23C, cold weather

220km in one of the colder days of Irish winter. Surely 250km or near enough it for a similar trip with plenty of not too slow motorway in Irish summer is feasible?

01-02-2017 03:15PM

I think the Journal posted that the average Irish daily trip is 16 Kms or less, probably based on census data ?

I travel 135-140 Kms for my commute, trips beyond that are rare these days but I have to say that the Ioniq with it's faster charging and longer range is getting quiet close to the point where those that do the rare 300 Km trip could very easily live with a 30 min QC and brings me back to my point about ESBN charges for the network, people will rarely use it so charges are not really of much concern, however I always said the PM charge was mad.

grogi · 01-02-2017 03:15PM

unkel wrote: »

Only a couple of days ago fresh owner Fiery mutant in here did 170km, half of it motorway @110km/h and had 50km left. Lights on, heater at 23C, cold weather

Let's agree on one - Ireland does not have cold weather. What Irish call cold and panic about is mild winter at best...

Villain · 01-02-2017 03:25PM

grogi wrote: »

Let's agree on one - Ireland does not have cold weather. What Irish call cold and panic about is mild winter at best...

Well compared to what? Our climate is not cold but not mild either, our average annual temperature is about 9 °C

I should say it is often cold enough to reduce pefrormance in an EV battery but rarely warm enough to reduce performance.

01-02-2017 03:31PM

unkel wrote: »

Why would you doubt it? All reports from real life are seeming to suggest it.

Only a couple of days ago fresh owner Fiery mutant in here did 170km, half of it motorway @110km/h and had 50km left. Lights on, heater at 23C, cold weather

220km in one of the colder days of Irish winter. Surely 250km or near enough it for a similar trip with plenty of not too slow motorway in Irish summer is feasible?

I guess I'll find out myself when I take it for a test drive in about 2 weeks,

I'll head up the old N9 to Kilcullen, join the M9 onto the M7 , N7, M50 N11, M11, into Wicklow town 124 Kms then into Arklow and back, 194 Kms.

There is CCS at Wicklow Town so I might have to charge there for a few mins. It's a shame there are no chargers west of the N11 in Wicklow !

To be honest I'm more interested in the efficiency in Kwh/100Kms.

The Leaf would get about 18-19 Kwh/100 Kms. I plan on doing it at 100-100 Kph. Arklow back home will be 60-90-100 Kph road, but will still give me a good idea.

aliveandkicking · 01-02-2017 03:42PM

Villain wrote: »

69 Ioniq sold in January based on latest figures.

From FB group: 168 EVs sold. This is in progress so yay! 95 Leaf, 69 Ioniq, 2 Zoés, 1 Egolf and 1 i3. Also note 47 PHEVs and only 29 Hybrid Ioniqs.

Do those figures include people who have signed on the dotted line but haven't received their cars yet (like unkel here) or just actual deliveries in January?

I'm actually amazed the Leaf outsold the Ioniq in January. I don't understand why anyone buying an EV today would choose a Leaf over an Ioniq.

zilog_jones · 01-02-2017 03:45PM

Figures are new registrations in January, from here: www.beepbeep.ie/stats/

The Leaf is a known quantity, and a smaller car for people who don't want/need something bigger. Still makes a lot of sense as a second car where range is not so important.

01-02-2017 03:47PM

Probably because the Leaf is well established and proved itself. But yeah, I wouldn't buy one myself if I were in the market for an EV.

Or, perhaps the leaf mid spec can be got cheaper, most people might be happy with the range of the leaf or perhaps decided to buy before the Ioniq hit the road.

01-02-2017 03:57PM

The Leaf is my main car it's not the 2nd car by any means and it does the most mileage. Even having 120 odd kms range at 100 Kph.

It would be nice to have the range though when I need it without having to charge, or a battery than can charge in a quarter of the time would suit me either.

Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

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