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Are insurance companies completely taking the piss now?

1356

Comments

  • #62
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    My car is 22. It's NCT'd and mechanically sound and well maintained. I heard scare stories about ten and fifteen year old cars being 'uninsurable' but I didn't have trouble insuring it when I bought it a couple of years ago and the increase in premium seems to have little to do with the age of the car. It seems to be affecting everyone.


  • #63
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,038 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    hand in hand with the motor industry with that rule

    what the hell is wrong with a 2006 car unless it was crashed ffs

    driving used to be fun now its just another big expense


  • #64
    Effects
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,741 ✭✭✭Effects


    kieran. wrote: »
    Bought a qashqai at Xmas in the north, so insured it on the northern plates to drive it home. Vrt'd it first week in Jan and rang up to notify the.insurance company of the reg change €48 could believe it!! Exact same car registered to the same address only difference was the number plate

    Nonsense

    I was quoted €440 on a Golf. Bought a different one to the one quoted me on. Same colour, spec, engine, year. It was originally from the North. They wanted €890.


  • #65
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    The amount of crashes and careless drivers doesn't help.

    Everyday on the m50 without fail an accident.

    Do people even get penalty points for been careless and causing accidents yet you get penalty points for driving in a bus lane?

    Every crash you see the costs go up.


  • #66
    BrokenArrows
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,548 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    Nothing is going to change until someone has the desire and the free time and money to fight for a fair and just system which will likely take years of lobbying the government and bringing civil cases against these companies.

    Im personally not going to do it because id rather spend my time on something i like! :D


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  • #67
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,540 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    Noddyholder wrote: »
    here is a link to the Ask me anything thread, in which a person tries to answer some question's, it did not work out well for them.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057633673

    Liberty had a competition on here too after that AMA (not really anything, just questions that can be answered with copy and paste from out website).

    An even bigger white wash.

    The winning "safe driving tip" was "Got my car Winter Checked and I will drive legally and 'expect the unexpected'"

    Now, I'm not one for wishy washy vague rubbish. So I tried to post solid, fact based precautions. Nope. No way would they let me mention that Limerick should be avoided as Liberty regard it as more than twice as dangerous than average.
    Landoflemon wrote: »
    Hello,

    I'm open for correction on this quick study I've done through the Liberty Insurance Website, but I believe the data is correct.

    I was looking for a quote for my 1.3L Toyota Yaris (2006), and decided to record data for each of the counties by changing my address.

    Limerick (County and City) appears to be much more heavily weighted than nearly anywhere else in the country. How can this be justified? I have a separate set of data for all the regions in Dublin City D1-24 (Average €702) and Dublin County (Average €707.5). No major jump between city and county there. Highest in Dublin is D11 (Ballymun) at €850.

    Is Limerick City and County an Insurance claim black spot for some reason? I haven't heard this discussed before.

    Insurance_zps8pzmcgby.jpg


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=102199165


    I was eventually, after an officail warning, allowed to leave the same advice up without referring to Liberty's pricing structure that is available to anyone with a laptop and an hour of playing with forms.
    Originally posted by Special Circumstances
    Don't drive in Limerick!
    Gardai in road safety appeal as road deaths in Limerick rise by 250%
    http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/231927/gardai-in-road-safety-appeal-as-road-deaths-in-limerick-rise-by-250.html


    What's the problem here? Both are facts. But one could somehow be conceived as being critical of Liberty? It's a fact or it isn't. Stand over it or rectify the situation, don't be asking poor Niamh to be sanitising things for ye Liberty.


  • #68
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,540 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    The amount of crashes and careless drivers doesn't help.

    Everyday on the m50 without fail an accident.

    Do people even get penalty points for been careless and causing accidents yet you get penalty points for driving in a bus lane?

    Every crash you see the costs go up.

    Indeed - if there is a problem with "handy" whiplash claims perhaps the answer is to reward drivers who have a track record of not driving into the back of other people rather than dismissing them because their 2006 car is a scammers car.


  • #69
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    Special Circumstances wrote: »
    Liberty had a competition on here too after that AMA (not really anything, just questions that can be answered with copy and paste from out website).

    An even bigger white wash.

    The winning "safe driving tip" was "Got my car Winter Checked and I will drive legally and 'expect the unexpected'"

    Now, I'm not one for wishy washy vague rubbish. So I tried to post solid, fact based precautions. Nope. No way would they let me mention that Limerick should be avoided as Liberty regard it as more than twice as dangerous than average.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=102199165


    I was eventually, after an officail warning, allowed to leave the same advice up without referring to Liberty's pricing structure that is available to anyone with a laptop and an hour of playing with forms.




    What's the problem here? Both are facts. But one could somehow be conceived as being critical of Liberty? It's a fact or it isn't. Stand over it or rectify the situation, don't be asking poor Niamh to be sanitising things for ye Liberty.

    God, that's a very interesting graph. :eek:

    My brokers are based in Limerick. Does that only apply to Liberty customers?


  • #70
    worded
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,915 ✭✭✭worded


    mad about nuts wrote: »
    Because they can and there is no competition anymore...i rang up a few places,driving 15 +years never had a claim,never got points and my insurance is as high now as it was 15 years ago...crazy qoutes ranging from 900 to 1800

    How many points do you have?


  • #71
    hollypink
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭hollypink


    Widdershins wrote: »
    My car is 22. It's NCT'd and mechanically sound and well maintained. I heard scare stories about ten and fifteen year old cars being 'uninsurable' but I didn't have trouble insuring it when I bought it a couple of years ago and the increase in premium seems to have little to do with the age of the car. It seems to be affecting everyone.

    When I was shopping around for quotes at my last renewal, at least one company declined to quote because of the age of the car (16 years). But when I told my current insurer I wasn't happy with their renewal quote and the agent was 'seeing what they could do', they gave me a discount for the length of time I'd owned the car. No consistency.


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  • #72
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,540 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    Widdershins wrote: »
    God, that's a very interesting graph. :eek:

    My brokers are based in Limerick. Does that only apply to Liberty customers?

    Hi Landoflemon,
    Our prices are based on analysis of the claims experience across a number of factors including the area where the vehicle is kept. Generally the higher the frequency of accidents and claims within an area then the higher the rates.
    These statistics are regularly reviewed and depending on the frequency of accidents and claims the rates can decrease as well as increase.
    Thanks
    Una

    Well I guess there's two possibilities if this loading applies only to Liberty:
    Either pretty much all the scammers are with Liberty, or somebody in Liberty don't do math good.


  • #73
    Sam Kade
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,297 ✭✭✭✭Sam Kade


    kieran. wrote: »
    Bought a qashqai at Xmas in the north, so insured it on the northern plates to drive it home. Vrt'd it first week in Jan and rang up to notify the.insurance company of the reg change €48 could believe it!! Exact same car registered to the same address only difference was the number plate

    Nonsense

    It's illegal for an Irish resident to drive a car with foreign plates in Ireland, if the customs stopped you they would have impounded the car.


  • #74
    Sam Kade
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,297 ✭✭✭✭Sam Kade


    jacksie66 wrote: »
    So my own car decided to start dying on me last week. It's a 03 Opel Vectra GTS 1.8. I'm paying Allianz 1500 a year to drive the thing as I need a car for work. 29 and a full license since 2006 but there you go. Anyways I went to Cork yesterday to pick up a new car I bought. Tis a 03 Vectra GTS pretty much exactly the same as my old one. The only difference was the colour and the much lower milage. Same car, year, engine, everything. When I was there I rang the insurance company to change over the insurance, thinking because it's the exact same car it'd be a straight swap. But nooooo. I had to pay 90 euro because my old car was a GTS sport and my new one was a GTS Elegance. So I was charged more for different spec, even though both cars are identical. You'd say something if it had a higher bhp or something but the differences are only cosmetic. What is it with insurance companies in this country fleecing us?
    if you were changing the opposite way round would they give you a refund:mad:


  • #75
    boardsuser1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,186 ✭✭✭boardsuser1


    ligertigon wrote: »
    An insurance group (like in the UK) would sort this out. Though they have one, its a makey up one. and they never tell you what class your vehicle is in, except to say its in a higher group!

    The only way around this is an independent body/website that stores everyones quotes/ cars, personal differences. Then and only then can you call them out on irregular trading.
    eg two carpenters from exact same estate in finglas driving exact same car with same details and one charged more than the other for a change of vehicle...
    Then you state your a gay buddist carpenter! lol

    Tried to do a temporary change last summer from my current car to another that I also own but one of them isn't in my name for several reasons.

    Was told by my insurers AXA that it wasn't possible as my daily runner was a group 15 and the spare car was a group 25.

    They can't do a temporary change to a car more than 5 groups higher I was told.

    When I asked about the cost of changing it over altogether and then back it was 200e all in.

    My premium is due for renewal in 8 weeks, oh the excitement of waiting for the renewal letter is killing me (not).

    N.B

    Daily runner is a 2009 Focus 1.6 tdci
    Spare is a 2001 Puma 1.7 petrol


  • #76
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    The thing that gets me, is that they assume we can just get a new car. If we can't afford a new car, they'll price insurance in such a way so we can't save for a new car.
    Well if one was of a paranoid conspiratorial bent… Car companies acting as banks with low or "no interest" loans, banks looking to expand car loan business, government wanting to egg on the economy in the car sector, car dealers and companies wanting to protect their biz and sell more new cars(and because of new cars almost certainly needing to go back to main dealers, they get more residuals), bullshít about "green" issues and new cars being better*, or that new cars are safer. That "10 year old cars are harder to insure" kinda helps all of the above doesn't it? Call me a cynic but…





    *which is BS. Yes a newer car may be better on emissions, but what is the cost to the environment of building a new car in the first place, compared to keeping a well maintained older car on the road? Remember when the government and car dealers convinced a large chunk of Irish drivers that diesel was better? They changed their tune there.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #77
    Parchment
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭Parchment


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Well if one was of a paranoid conspiratorial bent… Car companies acting as banks with low or "no interest" loans, banks looking to expand car loan business, government wanting to egg on the economy in the car sector, car dealers and companies wanting to protect their biz and sell more new cars(and because of new cars almost certainly needing to go back to main dealers, they get more residuals), bullshít about "green" issues and new cars being better*, or that new cars are safer. That "10 year old cars are harder to insure" kinda helps all of the above doesn't it? Call me a cynic but…





    *which is BS. Yes a newer car may be better on emissions, but what is the cost to the environment of building a new car in the first place, compared to keeping a well maintained older car on the road? Remember when the government and car dealers convinced a large chunk of Irish drivers that diesel was better? They changed their tune there.

    Its more environmentally friendly to drive an older car - the materials/energy required to make a new car are more detrimental.


  • #78
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    Glad I'm not the only one who thinks the new cars ''for the environment'' thing is a cod


  • #79
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,424 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Well if one was of a paranoid conspiratorial bent… Car companies acting as banks with low or "no interest" loans, banks looking to expand car loan business, government wanting to egg on the economy in the car sector, car dealers and companies wanting to protect their biz and sell more new cars(and because of new cars almost certainly needing to go back to main dealers, they get more residuals), bullshít about "green" issues and new cars being better*, or that new cars are safer. That "10 year old cars are harder to insure" kinda helps all of the above doesn't it? Call me a cynic but…





    *which is BS. Yes a newer car may be better on emissions, but what is the cost to the environment of building a new car in the first place, compared to keeping a well maintained older car on the road? Remember when the government and car dealers convinced a large chunk of Irish drivers that diesel was better? They changed their tune there.

    Yeah, that's another load of bull. The "zero interest" stuff requires you to pay off a loan and save on top of that to settle a lump payment at the end of the term.

    If you're not in a position to save money, you can't pay off a loan, no matter how they try to sell it.


  • #80
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,540 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    Widdershins wrote: »
    Glad I'm not the only one who thinks the new cars ''for the environment'' thing is a cod

    New cars for more money in German pockets I'd say.

    It could just be a coincidence that there is a continuing bias against Japanese cars (vtec is the tool of the devil even when implemented for economy rather than performance) even though all youngfellas have driven pimped diesels for the last ten years.

    Or it could just be incompetence.


  • #81
    Parchment
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭Parchment


    Widdershins wrote: »
    Glad I'm not the only one who thinks the new cars ''for the environment'' thing is a cod

    I drive them until they die. My current car is 13 and i consider it a spring chicken.

    I do come from a family who are really into cars/motorbikes so i know things can be easily fixed most of the time. Most people dont have that knowledge and i think they feel safer buying a newer car which they think is less likely to have issues. I understand that too and i think the insurance companies feed into it too - OLD CAR BAD NEW CAR GOOD.


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  • #82
    bear1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,971 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    corner of hells wrote: »
    Sir , the answer to your problem last before you.
    Why not switch registration plates on the cars and spray paint the new car the colour of the old one.Obviously say nothing to the insurance company .

    Your welcome , you may back in my reflected glory.

    On the off chance this is serious advise then don't.


  • #83
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    Parchment wrote: »
    I drive them until they die. My current car is 13 and i consider it a spring chicken.

    I do come from a family who are really into cars/motorbikes so i know things can be easily fixed most of the time. Most people dont have that knowledge and i think they feel safer buying a newer car which they think is less likely to have issues. I understand that too and i think the insurance companies feed into it too - OLD CAR BAD NEW CAR GOOD.

    Yes, same here and yes, I do understand that some people don't have the mechanical knowledge to keep an old car going. In fairness, I don't have the skill to do it myself and it's only thanks to my boyfriend being very 'handy' and into cars, that I can drive old cars.

    Modern cars, when they break down, are an automatic 'garage job' because of sealed units and sensors and all that. :(


  • #84
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Widdershins wrote: »

    Modern cars, when they break down, are an automatic 'garage job' because of sealed units and sensors and all that. :(
    And an automatic main dealer job in most cases. I can and have fixed bits and bobs on my car in the driveway(to be fair eff all has ever gone wrong) and if I couldn't an independent mechanic could. No main dealers required. And that's before me noting how much extra "Paddy Tax" can be charged by said dealers for parts and labour compared to our neighbours in the UK*. No wonder the sector parrots the newer = better mantra.





    *ie I needed a couple of bushings replaced recently and needed/wanted original parts. Rang dealers here, but ended up buying said parts in the UK for just under half price including postage from an official main dealer in the UK.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #85
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    Wibbs wrote: »
    And an automatic main dealer job in most cases. I can and have fixed bits and bobs on my car in the driveway(to be fair eff all has ever gone wrong) and if I couldn't an independent mechanic could. No main dealers required. And that's before me noting how much extra "Paddy Tax" can be charged by said dealers for parts and labour compared to our neighbours in the UK*. No wonder the sector parrots the newer = better mantra.





    *ie I needed a couple of bushings replaced recently and needed/wanted original parts. Rang dealers here, but ended up buying said parts in the UK for just under half price including postage from an official main dealer in the UK.

    We try to buy from the local(est) parts supplier but sometimes have to search the internet for parts for similar reasons (also lack of availability, but usually price because of tax)


  • #86
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Widdershins wrote: »
    usually price because of tax)
    That can certainly be the case alright, but sometimes it's just "ah sure the Irish will pay it" at play too. In another entirely different area that I have some experience in, I actually saw the EU distributor excel spreadsheet on calculating differences and parts prices in Ireland were double that of places like Spain, France, Italy and a third more than Germany and the UK, before tax. We get ripped off. Not always of course, but too bloody often. Well the subject of this thread for example. Now we can dance around the whys and who's to blame, but in the end of the day the majority of Irish drivers are being taken from behind by the sector and the government does eff all. And it's not as if insurance costs, payouts and general mismanagement is a new thing. We've had this guff since the 1980's and still here we are and it's getting worse not better and we are, or should be getting tired of the collective swamping waves of BS from those who should be working to fix things.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #87
    Pedro K
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭Pedro K


    I have a 00 Nissan Almera. I've had it since September 2008. It is mechanically sound and NCTd. When I renewed in July '16 at least 6 insurers refused to quote based on age of car alone. I have a full licence. 6+ years NCB, no penalty points etc.

    123 refused to quote as I hadn't owned the 16 year old car for 8 years. Despite me having had it for 7 years and 10 months at that stage.

    "A lot of people are buying cheap cars and setting up crashes for cash."

    Eh, I've had the car since 2008. Do you not think I'd have done that yet?!

    I also ride a motorbike. The bike is my every day vehicle, so I rarely drive the car, however none of this is taken into consideration when insuring the car.


  • #88
    Agricola
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Agricola


    Parchment wrote: »
    I drive them until they die. My current car is 13 and i consider it a spring chicken.

    I do come from a family who are really into cars/motorbikes so i know things can be easily fixed most of the time. Most people dont have that knowledge and i think they feel safer buying a newer car which they think is less likely to have issues. I understand that too and i think the insurance companies feed into it too - OLD CAR BAD NEW CAR GOOD.

    Exactly. It's a bit like people who arent computer/internet savvy. They get an email from the Nigerian prince asking for bank a/c details and immediately get up in a heap and ask around about it or possibly decide to reply with the details!
    Many people who never open the bonnet fret endlessly about something going bang while they are on a country lane in Leitrim at 3am.

    Having said that, I think the fear of breakdowns is not the biggest factor which feeds new car sales. It's primarily keeping up with the Joneses.


  • #89
    dolallyoh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 531 ✭✭✭dolallyoh


    Same here have a 05 Swift- perfect condition and getting a hard time trying to insure it .


  • #90
    boardsuser1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,186 ✭✭✭boardsuser1


    Pedro K wrote: »
    I have a 00 Nissan Almera. I've had it since September 2008. It is mechanically sound and NCTd. When I renewed in July '16 at least 6 insurers refused to quote based on age of car alone. I have a full licence. 6+ years NCB, no penalty points etc.

    123 refused to quote as I hadn't owned the 16 year old car for 8 years. Despite me having had it for 7 years and 10 months at that stage.

    "A lot of people are buying cheap cars and setting up crashes for cash."

    Eh, I've had the car since 2008. Do you not think I'd have done that yet?!

    I also ride a motorbike. The bike is my every day vehicle, so I rarely drive the car, however none of this is taken into consideration when insuring the car.

    AXA do deals for people who own a car and a bike. AON is their bike insurer.

    Got a quote from them on a bike myself. €180 fully comprehensive on a learner permit.

    With them since 2008 so that might influence it.


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  • #91
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,540 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    Pedro K wrote: »
    I have a 00 Nissan Almera. I've had it since September 2008. It is mechanically sound and NCTd. When I renewed in July '16 at least 6 insurers refused to quote based on age of car alone. I have a full licence. 6+ years NCB, no penalty points etc.

    123 refused to quote as I hadn't owned the 16 year old car for 8 years. Despite me having had it for 7 years and 10 months at that stage.

    "A lot of people are buying cheap cars and setting up crashes for cash."

    Eh, I've had the car since 2008. Do you not think I'd have done that yet?!

    I also ride a motorbike. The bike is my every day vehicle, so I rarely drive the car, however none of this is taken into consideration when insuring the car.


    Honestly I'm amazed that anybody takes these companies seriously.
    Each has their own "magic" new terms and conditions for "avoiding fraud". These conditions seem to based on mumbo jumbo or a brainstorm at a meeting of mid level gimps. Surprise surprise, none of them seem to improve the profits at all.

    It's just the equivalent of each of the mobile phone carriers having 80 different tariffs - it avoids direct comparision and muddies the waters.




    How about this.
    The government (god help us) or a quango thereof (jebus save me) create 5-10 different profiles that would cover a good chunk of the population. (band a few ages together, lump a few professions together, use a bit of common sense with car ages/engines)
    Any company wishing to do business in Ireland would have to publish the quote for an agreed common level of cover for these profiles.

    Not saying this is a great idea, but would it help average joe?


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