Off Topic Thread 3.0

molloyjh · 31-01-2017 09:41AM

Ah yeah, eventually someone somewhere will put a stop to this. Or will they? We've all been saying that this farce would end sometime. Few believed for one second this clown would get elected. We all thought it was a funny sideshow that would end when Hilary was declared the winner. Then we consoled ourselves with the "he can't be as bad in office, his advisors will moderate his behaviour". Now we've seen that hasn't happened either we've moved where we think the answer will come from. I've no faith that there will be any meaningful change tbh. Trump had a load of things lined up to come in. He'll force as many things through as he can now and things will start to settle down once he's done that. But the reality is that little will really change.

sullivlo · 31-01-2017 09:44AM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

There will come a time when Mike Pence will start to look like a saviour...

^this

I dislike what Pence stands for and some of his personal beliefs, but I can honestly say I would prefer him in office over Trump because he's an actual politician who has a basic understanding of the constitution.

Trump dismissing the attorney general because she believed his ban was unconstitutional... it's so wrong that it's beyond a joke at this stage.

I tend to be fairly easy going, but one week of trump in office and I am fearful.

I'm a scientist. We need transparency. We need truth. We need to accept things for what they are. I will lose faith in the American scientific community if his gag orders expand to include any other things he disagrees with.

Buer · 31-01-2017 09:47AM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

There will come a time when Mike Pence will start to look like a saviour...

Was that time approximately 10 days ago?

The appointment of Bannon to the security council is massive and has really been snuck in under the radar. He has downgraded the roles of the military chiefs of staff and Director of the CIA in conjunction with this.

The Director of the CIA. Downgraded. National Security Council.

That is utterly baffling and horrifying in equal measure particularly when you look at Bannon's history.

Podge_irl · 31-01-2017 09:49AM

I think Pence is ideologically worse though at least more predictable.

I'm curious to see what this supposed anti-LGBTQ order is. He is fairly constrained in what he can do to affect domestic policy and rights via Executive Orders. There is surely no way he could get away with anything that seemed to contradict the Supreme Court rulings of late for example.

Course I've been wrong about him before so...

Buer · 31-01-2017 09:59AM

Podge_irl wrote: »

I think Pence is ideologically worse though at least more predictable.

I'm curious to see what this supposed anti-LGBTQ order is. He is fairly constrained in what he can do to affect domestic policy and rights via Executive Orders. There is surely no way he could get away with anything that seemed to contradict the Supreme Court rulings of late for example.

Course I've been wrong about him before so...

Apparently the rumoured LGBT EO has been shelved but I'm not sure if it was ever on the cards. Trump is a looper but there's definitely a fair amount of propaganda being thrown out by his detractors. The thing is, given his performance to date, you'd be hard pushed to tell which is which.

Anyway, the rumoured EO was in relation to adoption rights and benefits for federal employees.

Podge_irl · 31-01-2017 10:12AM

Buer wrote: »

Apparently the rumoured LGBT EO has been shelved but I'm not sure if it was ever on the cards. Trump is a looper but there's definitely a fair amount of propaganda being thrown out by his detractors. The thing is, given his performance to date, you'd be hard pushed to tell which is which.

Anyway, the rumoured EO was in relation to adoption rights and benefits for federal employees.

Very much so, which I think is dangerous in and of itself as well.

A fair and reasonable judgement of his actions would be damning enough, there is no need to stoke the fire above and beyond that. If anything it just makes it easier to dismiss valid criticism and entrenches everyone.

Trump just does not have that much power over the rights of people in the US (thankfully).

CMOTDibbler · 31-01-2017 10:34AM

Podge_irl wrote: »

Very much so, which I think is dangerous in and of itself as well.

A fair and reasonable judgement of his actions would be damning enough, there is no need to stoke the fire above and beyond that. If anything it just makes it easier to dismiss valid criticism and entrenches everyone.

Trump just does not have that much power over the rights of people in the US (thankfully).

According to Gallup, he's the fastest President to reach majority disapproval ever. It took him just eight days to get to 51% disapproval. The next nearest was Bill Clinton who took over 500 days.

Shortest honeymoon period in history. You could probably measure it in minutes.

Podge_irl · 31-01-2017 10:46AM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

According to Gallup, he's the fastest President to reach majority disapproval ever. It took him just eight days to get to 51% disapproval. The next nearest was Bill Clinton who took over 500 days.

Shortest honeymoon period in history. You could probably measure it in minutes.

I presume he went in with a pretty high/record high disapproval already.

CMOTDibbler · 31-01-2017 11:06AM

Podge_irl wrote: »

I presume he went in with a pretty high/record high disapproval already.

Yeah, historically low. Dubya had 36% unfavourable rating on the eve of his inauguration whereas Trump had 45%. Bush's rating was the lowest of the modern era, until now.

Bazzo · 31-01-2017 11:19AM

Podge_irl wrote: »

I think Pence is ideologically worse though at least more predictable.

I'm curious to see what this supposed anti-LGBTQ order is. He is fairly constrained in what he can do to affect domestic policy and rights via Executive Orders. There is surely no way he could get away with anything that seemed to contradict the Supreme Court rulings of late for example.

Course I've been wrong about him before so...

I'm not sure that's the case. Pence has some pretty draconian views, especially when it comes to the LGBT community, but Trump's policies seem to be entirely influenced by Bannon, who is pretty much the scum of the earth: a homophobic, wife-beating, child-beating, white supremacist. I mean if you can stomach it just look at Breitbart to get an idea of what he believes in.

31-01-2017 11:21AM

Podge_irl wrote: »

I presume he went in with a pretty high/record high disapproval already.

His initial conciliatory and togetherness rhetoric gave him a slight bump but his constant erratic tweeting and general demeanour has seen that tank in the run up to the inauguration and it's gotten worse since obviously.

The Dems have gone fairly silent on the whole thing, I think they've just decided to stop feeding the troll at this stage and leave Republicans deal with him.

I'd have no issue with it continuing on as I think it will embarrass and shame American politics back towards the centre which is a good thing. The Bannon appointment absolutely changes this for me though, if people knew more about this guy and the things he has said they would be a lot more worried.

irishbucsfan · 31-01-2017 11:23AM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Yeah, historically low. Dubya had 36% unfavourable rating on the eve of his inauguration whereas Trump had 45%. Bush's rating was the lowest of the modern era, until now.

Yeah, but also

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-immigration-supporters-idUSKBN15E0BH

Some polls showing as much as 57% in favour of the refugee ban. He can build support very quickly if needed.

pickarooney · 31-01-2017 11:46AM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

There will come a time when Mike Pence will start to look like a saviour...

There will come a time when a plane flying into the White House will look like a benediction.

Zzippy · 31-01-2017 11:52AM

Between all this in the US and Russia doubling down on their human rights record by decriminalising domestic violence, WTF is happening in these countries that these regressive steps are celebrated?

31-01-2017 11:56AM

Zzippy wrote: »

Between all this in the US and Russia doubling down on their human rights record by decriminalising domestic violence, WTF is happening in these countries that these regressive steps are celebrated?

I would imagine the root cause is lowering education standards and under-funding of education.

After that I think it's always been there but people with these beliefs kept them to themselves. The internet and right / left wing web sites and comment sections along with the media drifting towards political fringes has created an era of acceptability for these views.

awec · 31-01-2017 11:58AM

Trump is a cnut.

pickarooney · 31-01-2017 12:02PM

Bazzo wrote: »

I'm not sure that's the case. Pence has some pretty draconian views, especially when it comes to the LGBT community, but Trump's policies seem to be entirely influenced by Bannon, who is pretty much the scum of the earth: a homophobic, wife-beating, child-beating, white supremacist. I mean if you can stomach it just look at Breitbart to get an idea of what he believes in.

'Emanating Reagan'
Is this 'alternative English' ?

irishbucsfan · 31-01-2017 12:03PM

Zzippy wrote: »

Between all this in the US and Russia doubling down on their human rights record by decriminalising domestic violence, WTF is happening in these countries that these regressive steps are celebrated?

As I said a few days ago when Clearlier asked the same question, best explanation I've seen of it (as close to the timestamp where he addresses it as I can get it https://youtu.be/Bkm2Vfj42FY?t=372 ).

Neil3030 · 31-01-2017 12:23PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

As I said a few days ago when Clearlier asked the same question, best explanation I've seen of it (as close to the timestamp where he addresses it as I can get it https://youtu.be/Bkm2Vfj42FY?t=372 ).

This could well be the finest argument ever made, I simply cannot understand Scottish people. I'm pretty sure the concentration levels required to listen to a Scottish person speak for 5 minutes has the same carcinogenic effects as a box of cigarettes. I actually had to switch our gas and electricity from Scottish Power because I was sick of calling their help centre and not having a clue what was going on.

wp_rathead · 31-01-2017 12:36PM

Here's hoping Sessions gets blocked from becoming Attorney General - while no where near as anarchistic as Bannon he has a rather checkered history of racist, sexist, homophobic and ableist views.. Doubt the GOP will go against Trumps wishes though

thomond2006 · 31-01-2017 01:04PM

Is the Tea-Party movement still a thing or is this just the Republican party these days?

dregin · 31-01-2017 01:08PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Is the Tea-Party movement still a thing or is this just the Republican party these days?

It's now called the Alt Right, I think??

Teferi · 31-01-2017 01:10PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Is the Tea-Party movement still a thing or is this just the Republican party these days?

Technically the Tea Party is in decline but the GOP pandered to them so much that they moved in that direction anyway. A load of Trump's support base would Tea Partiers.

It's the same way with the Tories - 51% of people want Brexit and UKIP gave them enough of a fright that May has swung them wildly to the right, compared to Cameron's general centre-rightness.

Bazzo · 31-01-2017 01:10PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Is the Tea-Party movement still a thing or is this just the Republican party these days?

The tea party are probably considered moderates in the republican party these days.

awec · 31-01-2017 01:15PM

Enda Kenny standing shaking his hand on March 17 is going to be embarrassing.

irishbucsfan · 31-01-2017 01:20PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Is the Tea-Party movement still a thing or is this just the Republican party these days?

Effectively it's just the republican party these days. Which is not entirely in line with Trump, as you'll see when you have arch-conservatives like Charles Koch likening his policies to 30s facsism.

dregin wrote: »

It's now called the Alt Right, I think??

Different thing entirely, they are effectively the alt-right because they're the alternative to traditional conservatives like a lot of the Tea Partiers. The tea party was primarily a pro-austerity group promoting 300 year old economics (IE, the EU's approach) whereas Trump has flip-flopped on debt and suggested in that recent Fox interview that it's not a priority for him (saying something along the lines of you have to spend money to make money, like a Del-boy president).

The Lost Sheep · 31-01-2017 01:26PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Is the Tea-Party movement still a thing or is this just the Republican party these days?

Not really. Its part of main republican movement a huge amount these days

dregin wrote: »

It's now called the Alt Right, I think??

No. Alt right is a coming together of various previously isolated groups with similar ideals/beliefs. They have many core beliefs while tea party would have much more divergence in beliefs/position statements.

awec wrote: »

Enda Kenny standing shaking his hand on March 17 is going to be embarrassing.

Yes but its vital he's there meeting him more than many previous presidents...

molloyjh · 31-01-2017 01:43PM

awec wrote: »

Enda Kenny standing shaking his hand on March 17 is going to be embarrassing.

Ah yeah but FDI etc etc.

They're the big boy on the block and while they remain as such we're all going to mumble and grumble about it until we come face to face where-in we'll just do what we're told.

There are practical considerations at play obviously, but at some point morality has to trump that (no pun intended). Sitting back and allowing it to continue is sometimes not that big a deal, but other times it very much is.

The problem is there's the sum total of absolutely nothing that Ireland can do by itself. The global community as a whole would need to act. And everyones too busy looking after their own little patch to get involved in something like that. As much and all as they love themselves over there in the good old US of A they'd be royally screwed if the rest of the world turned their back on them. But the rest of the world would take a huge hit as well. And much and all as many of us love the moral high ground, most only love it when they can afford to. If given the decision between the moral high ground along with another recession or playing ball without the recession what do you think most would pick? The latter allows them to still judge from afar without the financial hit.

Teferi · 31-01-2017 01:47PM

awec wrote: »

Enda Kenny standing shaking his hand on March 17 is going to be embarrassing.

Meh. I think maintaining that line of communication is more important that Trump being a complete and utter clown. If we stop it now then the next president may not want to start the tradition up again. I think it has some importance for the Irish-American diaspora.

Neil3030 · 31-01-2017 01:48PM

awec wrote: »

Enda Kenny standing shaking his hand on March 17 is going to be embarrassing.

Could we send Gerry instead?

I mean, Carlsberg don't do drone strikes, but if they did....

Off Topic Thread 3.0

Comments