Child refugees -majority to be males aged 17???

alastair · 30-01-2017 03:37AM

gitzy16v wrote: »

But if they are dual citizens,thats a problem then?

No. If they hold dual US/banned state citizenship, they're not being blocked from re-entering the US. That's according to the State Department. The same is true for a number of other dual citizenship holders - UK and Canadian citizens specifically - though this is clear as mud.

30-01-2017 10:31AM

bubblypop wrote: »

Authorities are doing all they can to vet potential refugees coming to Ireland.
Obviously if we know they are ISIS they can be stopped.
There is no justification in blocking all Syrians from Ireland because some, may, be ISIS.
Surely this is completely obvious.

Let me quote what I posted again:

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah! So, you can identify people who are intending on committing crime - in some circumstances, at least.

Now, how do you identify the known ISIS fighter if they are not carrying any ID?

You can't! So, do we let them in anyway, and allow them to commit an atrocity? The kicker is, we can't actually keep them out, if they claim asylum.

It would be really nice if this situation was conveniently black and white.
It's not.

It's wrong to refuse whatever help we can give to genuine refugees.
It's wrong to stand idly by and let ISIS members terrorize Europe.

Just to really make it tough - some genuine Syrian refugees are ISIS fighters.

How do we solve that one, do you think?

Hmm. No suggestion of blocking all Syrians. Quite the opposite.
Followed by a list of difficulties, and a request for your opinion on how we could solve them.

How, in any way, does that equate to blocking all Syrians from Ireland?
And do you have any suggestions?

Widdershins wrote: »

You certainly didn't. I'm sorry it seemed like that was aimed at you. I had in mind Bubblypop's point about punishing people preemptively and then wanted to agree with your point because it resolved some uncertainty I had about that..I hope that makes sense. Time for a Boards break, I think

No worries, Widdershins. You made a valid point, so I thought I should clear it up for the benefit of any reader not familiar with my posting history.

Please don't take a Boards break on my account. I enjoy your posts, and understood your reason for posting!:D

Widdershins · 30-01-2017 10:40AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Let me quote what I posted again:

Hmm. No suggestion of blocking all Syrians. Quite the opposite.
Followed by a list of difficulties, and a request for your opinion on how we could solve them.

How, in any way, does that equate to blocking all Syrians from Ireland?
And do you have any suggestions?

No worries, Widdershins. You made a valid point, so I thought I should clear it up for the benefit of any reader not familiar with my posting history.

Please don't take a Boards break on my account. I enjoy your posts, and understood your reason for posting!:D

Not on your account, just the -possibly deliberate- tendency of other people to misunderstand and misrepresent people especially on these threads. If I start inadvertently annoying posters I like, I'll know I just can't put the necessary effort into wording a post carefully enough to overcome the inherent deficiencies of expressing myself in text format. I'm glad I haven't given you an unintended impression/offense

rgossip30 · 30-01-2017 11:10AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Have they arrived yet in Roscommon? If not why not?

Why the rush ?

jmayo · 30-01-2017 11:46AM

bubblypop wrote: »

But it's ridiculous to suggest that because some North African men committed crime, that we should ban ALL North African men.
It doesn't make sense to me at all that anyone can judge millions of people by the actions of a handful.
I judge people on their actions, not the actions of others.

If someone arrives with no proof of identity, claiming to be someone or something that can't be proven or disproven because no official confirmation can be obtained from their supposed home state then they should not get in.
Fullstop.

Why are all these "refugees" turning up with absolutely no proof of identity.

I always go back to one of the most famous of these supposed refugee minors, good old Mr anis Amri.
He dumped his documents before he arrived in Lampedusa and then claimed he was a minor.

See how well letting him in worked out for Europe.

Stheno wrote: »

Have you a link to prove that there Mary?

If I show you the Telegraph or Breitbard you will of course rubbish it so here is the good old Guardian.

See the bottom section in Bold.

Arriving on Sicily, having deliberately discarded his personal documents, he pretended to be an underage refugee. At the school he attended in Catania, Amri drew attention to himself for repeated incidents of petty theft and physical abuse.

He had also set fire to his housing on Lampedusa in an apparent protest over the authorities’ slowness in dealing with his asylum application. He received a four-year prison sentence.
...

Amri arrived in Germany in July 2015, reportedly claiming to be a politically persecuted Egyptian, according to Ralf Jäger, the interior minister of the western German state of North Rhine-Westphalia.
...

His asylum application was rejected this summer, stamped with the explanation that it was “offensichtlich unbegründet”, or obviously groundless, because of his inability to prove to the authorities that he was Egyptian.
...

Yet again, however, his deportation could not be carried out because he possessed no valid personal documents. He denied being Tunisian, and the Tunisian authorities initially refused to accept he was one of their citizens.

Eventually, in August, after much bureaucratic to-ing and fro-ing, the Tunisian authorities agreed to send him a replacement passport. The papers from Tunis that would have validated his deportation arrived in Germany two days after the Berlin attack. Under normal circumstances, he would have been extradited before the end of the year.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/23/anis-amri-from-young-drifter-to-europes-most-wanted-man

30-01-2017 11:48AM

Widdershins wrote: »

Not on your account, just the -possibly deliberate- tendency of other people to misunderstand and misrepresent people especially on these threads. If I start inadvertently annoying posters I like, I'll know I just can't put the necessary effort into wording a post carefully enough to overcome the inherent deficiencies of expressing myself in text format. I'm glad I haven't given you an unintended impression/offense

I had noticed that, too.

My own opinion is that some posters (and I'm being careful not to name any), deliberately misrepresent posts, in the certain knowledge that what they allege will have to be refuted.

It's a useful technique when they have no defense to what was actually posted, and are hoping to steer the discussion down another route.
"Attack is the best form of defense" seems to be the methodology used.

My own opinion is that it's a dishonest, and inferior style of debate - and, indeed, there is little point in debating with people who, when faced with facts, refuse to either counter with facts, or, indeed, acknowledge the truth in any way.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see" comes to mind - and that is being charitable, and not accusing anyone of having a hidden agenda.....which is, of course, impossible to moderate!

30-01-2017 01:23PM

jmayo wrote: »

If someone arrives with no proof of identity, claiming to be someone or something that can't be proven or disproven because no official confirmation can be obtained from their supposed home state then they should not get in.
Fullstop.

Why are all these "refugees" turning up with absolutely no proof of identity.

I always go back to one of the most famous of these supposed refugee minors, good old Mr anis Amri.
He dumped his documents before he arrived in Lampedusa and then claimed he was a minor.

See how well letting him in worked out for Europe.

If I show you the Telegraph or Breitbard you will of course rubbish it so here is the good old Guardian.

See the bottom section in Bold.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/23/anis-amri-from-young-drifter-to-europes-most-wanted-man

They are not turning up without documentation.
Refugees are being interviewed & screened before they are allowed to come to Ireland.

30-01-2017 01:26PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Have they arrived yet in Roscommon? If not why not?

Syrian refugees are being homed in roscommon, the ones being taken in from Calais are minors. Presumably they will be home in foster or care homes.

rgossip30 · 30-01-2017 01:32PM

bubblypop wrote: »

They are not turning up without documentation.
Refugees are being interviewed & screened before they are allowed to come to Ireland.

How do you screen someone with no documents ?

kupus · 30-01-2017 01:47PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I had noticed that, too.

My own opinion is that some posters (and I'm being careful not to name any), deliberately misrepresent posts, in the certain knowledge that what they allege will have to be refuted.

It's a useful technique when they have no defense to what was actually posted, and are hoping to steer the discussion down another route.
"Attack is the best form of defense" seems to be the methodology used.

My own opinion is that it's a dishonest, and inferior style of debate - and, indeed, there is little point in debating with people who, when faced with facts, refuse to either counter with facts, or, indeed, acknowledge the truth in any way.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see" comes to mind - and that is being charitable, and not accusing anyone of having a hidden agenda.....which is, of course, impossible to moderate!

Its a liberal called the 4D's.

Deny the problem exists
Deflect the problem questions that are asked
Distort the info given
Defame the people asking the questions.

It has proven very valuable in the past for the enlightened ones to shout down, twist and then shut down discussion.
But people are beginning to see thru the BS that passes for enlightened liberalism.

Funny I used to consider myself liberal, back when i was young and hadn't a friggen clue ( I didn't even know you had to bribe officials in Libya, ah I'm kidding on that one I'm not that green, I was just surprised at the cost!!) but I still am liberal....to a degree.
Just dont pi$$ down my leg and tell me its raining.

Yet some posters here would have me and a lot more on these boards painted as a racist nazi homophobe islamophobe everythingophobe knuckle dragging gombeens, that havent a clue just we ask very simple questions,
and bring up very simple points.

30-01-2017 02:41PM

rgossip30 wrote: »

How do you screen someone with no documents ?

They are interviewed, fingerprinted & information they give is checked.
They are screened as best as is possible. I'm not sure what else can be done?
People found to be lying, or even with a slight question over them are not recommended.

30-01-2017 02:45PM

bubblypop wrote: »

They are interviewed, fingerprinted & information they give is checked.
They are screened as best as is possible. I'm not sure what else can be done?
People found to be lying, or even with a slight question over them are not recommended.

So, how many have been turned back at the European borders, then?

Also, any chance of a reply to my earlier posts?

alastair · 30-01-2017 02:56PM

Deleted User wrote: »

So, how many have been turned back at the European borders, then?

The post related to the refugees to be transferred from Greece and France to a Ireland. Obviously asylum seekers need to be admitted to the initial state they're seeking asylum in, to assess the merits of their claim.

30-01-2017 02:58PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So, how many have been turned back at the European borders, then?

Also, any chance of a reply to my earlier posts?

I'm talking about refugees that are being brought to Ireland from camps in the leb, Greece & Calais. I don't know anything about people getting turned back at European borders.
Which posts?

30-01-2017 03:20PM

bubblypop wrote: »

I'm talking about refugees that are being brought to Ireland from camps in the leb, Greece & Calais. I don't know anything about people getting turned back at European borders.
Which posts?

These.
By the way, how are the lads at Calais provably refugee?
They've been housed in France.

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah! So, you can identify people who are intending on committing crime - in some circumstances, at least.

Now, how do you identify the known ISIS fighter if they are not carrying any ID?

You can't! So, do we let them in anyway, and allow them to commit an atrocity? The kicker is, we can't actually keep them out, if they claim asylum.

It would be really nice if this situation was conveniently black and white.
It's not.

It's wrong to refuse whatever help we can give to genuine refugees.
It's wrong to stand idly by and let ISIS members terrorize Europe.

Just to really make it tough - some genuine Syrian refugees are ISIS fighters.

How do we solve that one, do you think?

Deleted User wrote: »

Let me quote what I posted again:

Hmm. No suggestion of blocking all Syrians. Quite the opposite.
Followed by a list of difficulties, and a request for your opinion on how we could solve them.

How, in any way, does that equate to blocking all Syrians from Ireland?
And do you have any suggestions?

No worries, Widdershins. You made a valid point, so I thought I should clear it up for the benefit of any reader not familiar with my posting history.

Please don't take a Boards break on my account. I enjoy your posts, and understood your reason for posting!:D

30-01-2017 03:36PM

What do you want me to answer in those posts?
The authorities are doing all they can do to screen these people & keep terrorists out.
I'm not really sure what else you want them to do?

ultra violet 5 · 30-01-2017 03:39PM

there really should be free movement of all people to go wherever they want

30-01-2017 03:39PM

The lads in Calais are coming from the camps, most have been there for a few years.
I'm not saying it's a good idea to take these lads from Calais, but the government decided we were.

ultra violet 5 · 30-01-2017 03:48PM

bubblypop wrote: »

The lads in Calais are coming from the camps, most have been there for a few years.
I'm not saying it's a good idea to take these lads from Calais, but the government decided we were.

don't worry it will work out fine

wir schaffen das

Mr.Micro · 30-01-2017 04:22PM

bubblypop wrote: »

What do you want me to answer in those posts?
The authorities are doing all they can do to screen these people & keep terrorists out.
I'm not really sure what else you want them to do?

Agreed.

Going off the point for a moment.
It always makes me laugh when us Irish are worried about terrorists. The irony. Terrorists have been endorsed and supported here for decades. So the terrorist excuse does not ring true IMO.

jmayo · 30-01-2017 04:27PM

bubblypop wrote: »

They are not turning up without documentation.
Refugees are being interviewed & screened before they are allowed to come to Ireland.

Are you really trying to pull the p***.
Giving documents to someone in a camp in Greece or Italy or someone from Calais is not the same as them having identification documentation from their country of origin.

And who are going to be carrying out these interviews ?
What is the screening, do they consult the dept of justice in the countries that the claimants are supposedly from originally ?

bubblypop wrote: »

They are interviewed, fingerprinted & information they give is checked.

Checked with whom ?
Are their details forwarded to Syrian authorities or authorities in Somali, Eritrea, Iraq, etc ?

bubblypop wrote: »

They are screened as best as is possible. I'm not sure what else can be done?
People found to be lying, or even with a slight question over them are not recommended.

Best as is possible says a lot.

bubblypop wrote: »

I'm talking about refugees that are being brought to Ireland from camps in the leb, Greece & Calais. I don't know anything about people getting turned back at European borders.
Which posts?

I just love that way you are suddenly lumping camps in Lebanon in with camps in Greece and the jungle dwellers in Calais.

Another example of you playing loose with the facts and truth to suit your argument ?

There is a huge God damn difference between those three.

If the anti side tried that we would be searching google for verifying documentation and links for the next decade. :rolleyes:

gitzy16v · 30-01-2017 04:27PM

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Agreed.

Going off the point for a moment.
It always makes me laugh when us Irish are worried about terrorists. The irony. Terrorists have been endorsed and supported here for decades. So the terrorist excuse does not ring true IMO.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

rgossip30 · 30-01-2017 04:29PM

gitzy16v wrote: »

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Does that mean we should take in more :rolleyes:

Chips Lovell · 30-01-2017 04:30PM

Was it contained in an announcement somewhere that we'd be taking in people without documents?

Mr.Micro · 30-01-2017 04:31PM

gitzy16v wrote: »

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

No, a terrorist is a terrorist, no matter what cause is claimed, if actions are against a legitimate Government or authority, IMO.

ultra violet 5 · 30-01-2017 04:35PM

does anyone remember simon coveney beinfg elected?

Stheno · 30-01-2017 04:36PM

ultra violet 5 wrote: »

does anyone remember simon coveney beinfg elected?

Whats that got to do with the price of sausages?

alastair · 30-01-2017 04:46PM

Mr.Micro wrote: »

No, a terrorist is a terrorist, no matter what cause is claimed, if actions are against a legitimate Government or authority, IMO.

How do define a legitimate government or authority? It's not quite so black and white.

ultra violet 5 · 30-01-2017 04:46PM

Stheno wrote: »

Whats that got to do with the price of sausages?

nothing really,

personally i remember him being elected, heard it on th eradio athe time

but i was talking to a gentleman today and he sai mr coveney is untrustworthy

alastair · 30-01-2017 04:52PM

jmayo wrote: »

Are you really trying to pull the p***.
Giving documents to someone in a camp in Greece or Italy or someone from Calais is not the same as them having identification documentation from their country of origin.

And who are going to be carrying out these interviews ?
What is the screening, do they consult the dept of justice in the countries that the claimants are supposedly from originally ?

Checked with whom ?
Are their details forwarded to Syrian authorities or authorities in Somali, Eritrea, Iraq, etc ?

Best as is possible says a lot.

I just love that way you are suddenly lumping camps in Lebanon in with camps in Greece and the jungle dwellers in Calais.

Another example of you playing loose with the facts and truth to suit your argument ?

There is a huge God damn difference between those three.

If the anti side tried that we would be searching google for verifying documentation and links for the next decade. :rolleyes:

If you're actually interested, there's ample information about the screening, interview process, information forms to fill out, and appeals processes that asylum seekers have to go through up on the web. It's not exactly secret stuff.
http://www.irishrefugeecouncil.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Difficult-to-Believe-The-assessment-of-asylum-claims-in-Ireland.pdf

There's no difference in the legal status of refugees located in Lebanon, Greece, or Calais, save that the refugees in the EU will have been fingerprinted by a EURODAC agency and interviewed by the EU state they're currently in.

Child refugees -majority to be males aged 17???

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