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Carla Ancient Fishnet wrote: »Visited the <snip> today. Some lovely dogs but all but 2 were not suitable for small children. Had a bit of a chat with staff. It was nice to see the kids with the dogs. One of the staff there had her own dog with her a shih tzu bichon cross, I fell in love! She was such a placid little thing too. I think I definitely am drawn more towards small dogs. And thinking a puppy or young dog would probably be best. Ive joined some rescue sites on facebook too so would love to see a little shih tzu or similar come up. Cant help but melt over the likes of maltese too! Though I doubt there would be many of those to rescue!
Not sure if it has previously been mentioned, but keep in mind that often non-shed type breeds (like a Shih Tzu and Maltese) come with a need to head to the groomers every 8-12 weeks or so, especially as a knotty dog can be a grumpy dog, and you don't want that if you have small kids. That can be about €50 a pop for a good groomer, just thought I'd mention.
[Dog Training + Behaviour Nerd]
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ShaShaBear wrote: »Actually, a rescue I volunteer with is JUST after asking about a foster home for a 5 month old Maltese-Bichon cross
They'd be a bit far for you, but they come into rescue a lot more than you'd think!
Oh wow Id jump at her! Are they in or around Dublin?0 -
Not sure if it has previously been mentioned, but keep in mind that often non-shed type breeds (like a Shih Tzu and Maltese) come with a need to head to the groomers every 8-12 weeks or so, especially as a knotty dog can be a grumpy dog, and you don't want that if you have small kids. That can be about €50 a pop for a good groomer, just thought I'd mention.
Yep definitely something to think of. Can grooming be done yourself though?0 -
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Carla Ancient Fishnet wrote: »Oh thats so lovely Im so happy for your dog. See Im not set on a puppy at all and would love to rescue an older dog but its the safety issue with the kids Im worried about (especially our toddler) Im worried with an older dog we wont know her history and what if theres an issue there in her past that even the rescue dont know about. How is your 3 yr old with the dog?
If an older dog has been in foster for even just a few weeks, they will be very familiar with the dog's history. Very little over the course of 3 or 4 weeks in a house with young, screaming children that doesn't happen on at least a bi-daily basis (coming from someone with two under 3
). You also have absolutely no guarantee that a puppy, once grown, won't find something the kids do not to their liking, like a badly placed scream in their ear, scooching off the couch and accidentally standing on them, throwing a toy that hits them instead of the floor, etc.
What I can guarantee you (although if trained correctly, it wont last forever) is that a puppy will 100% bite all of your children at least once unless you keep them completely and 100% separated. Your toddler could develop a dislike very quickly. I got my rescue collie at 4 months old and my eldest was the same age. She got quite a few well-intended puppy nips and at 2.5 years, you can still see she is not nearly as comfortable with him as my youngest!0 -
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ShaShaBear wrote: »If an older dog has been in foster for even just a few weeks, they will be very familiar with the dog's history. Very little over the course of 3 or 4 weeks in a house with young, screaming children that doesn't happen on at least a bi-daily basis (coming from someone with two under 3 ). You also have absolutely no guarantee that a puppy, once grown, won't find something the kids do not to their liking, like a badly placed scream in their ear, scooching off the couch and accidentally standing on them, throwing a toy that hits them instead of the floor, etc.
What I can guarantee you (although if trained correctly, it wont last forever) is that a puppy will 100% bite all of your children at least once unless you keep them completely and 100% separated. Your toddler could develop a dislike very quickly. I got my rescue collie at 4 months old and my eldest was the same age. She got quite a few well-intended puppy nips and at 2.5 years, you can still see she is not nearly as comfortable with him as my youngest!
See that worries me. When you say the puppy will definitely bite the kids do you mean a little nip or a proper bite?0 -
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Carla Ancient Fishnet wrote: »See that worries me. When you say the puppy will definitely bite the kids do you mean a little nip or a proper bite?
Be under no illusions Carla Ancient Fishnet, most pups will bite and bite and bite and bite. Relentlessly. It's what they do. They don't mean any harm, they're only playing, and it is actually a critical part of their behavioural development.
But their puppy teeth are like needles, and they really hurt. The teeth get easily entangled in clothing, leaving the pup hanging out of trouser legs, sleeves, shoelaces and scarves long after the pup has tried to let go.
Now, whilst an adult or older child can deal with all of this, and indeed rationalise it, a toddler or younger child can't. Pup bites, child screams, pup is highly reinforced for eliciting a scream, waving arms, child running away... There is nothing a pup loves more than chasing a screaming, flailing, retreating toy. And so, the pup becomes more inclined to approach the toddler with divilment in mind.
So, you end up with a child who, in each and every incident, is feeling the pain of a playful puppy bite, and who tries to get away from the pup, but can't because the pup keeps chasing them, or getting their teeth tangled in the toddler's clothing. Many puppies are relentless with the biting, and need to be taught gently and consistently how to not use their teeth when they're interacting with humans. This is a huge ask of a toddler... An unreasonable ask.
This is why you're being advised by many experienced owners and fosterers not to get a pup, because you've got not one, but two very young kids.
I think I've already said it in this thread, I work in dog training, and one of the most common scenarios I'm asked to help with is how to stop the new pup biting the kids because the kids are now terrified of the pup. As far as the kids are concerned, there is a land-shark wielding a reign of terror in their home. I'll be honest, it's a very sad sight to see... Puppy approaching child, child recoils, crying. Unfortunately, I've seen this hundreds and hundreds of times. It's without doubt a primary reason why pups are surrendered so often.
There is a monumental difference between a pup of 10 weeks, and a young dog of 6 months when it comes to biting. By that stage, they've done most of their puppyish bitey messing, they have their not-so-tangly and sharp adult teeth, and their brains have turned an important behavioural corner, particularly if their original owner put any sort of work into them.
You'll know pretty quickly how a young adult dog feels about your children by its disposition towards them. Also, a few simple tests... Loop your fingers under the dog's chest, just behind the front legs, and slowly and gently raise the dog so his front feet are just off the floor. If he wriggles and struggles without giving up after 10-20 seconds, this is a reasonably good indication that this dog might be a bit sassy to have around kids. If he struggles a bit but then relaxes, it indicates that the pup doesn't like what's happening but is willing to tolerate it... Which is good. If there's no struggling at all, it's likely that this is quite a relaxed dog that has no huge handling issues.
Also, have the rescue person give the dog a bowl of food. As the dog is eating, approach it, and lean over the dog. If you see the slightest sign of freezing or tension, do not choose this dog. What you want to see here is, when you lean over the dog, it looks at you with relaxed features, and says "oh hi! I'm eating! Want some?"
On a similar vein, have the rescue person give the dog a chewy treat, something big enough that it can't devour it in a couple of chomps. Again, approach the dog, lean over it, and slowly reach out to the dog (without attempting to take the chew). If the dog takes the chew and skulks away, if he places head or paws over it to stop you touching it, if he freezes and looks at you with whites of eyes showing and without moving his head, don't take this dog. But if he looks at you with a big open, happy face and a loosely wagging tail, you've a fair idea that this is a nice, friendly dog.
To be safe in the above scenarios, have someone holding the dog on-lead on the opposite side to your approach, so that they can stop the dog from lunging at you if the worst comes to the worst. I will also point out that these little tests are probably more reliable in dogs from 5-6 months onwards than in pups, though if I saw a pup guarding its food or treats, I'd run for the hills.
So if you're hell-bent on a youngster, why not go for something 6-12 months old? There are thousands of dogs in this age group in rescue.0 -
Be under no illusions swagger, most pups will bite and bite and bite and bite. Relentlessly. It's what they do. They don't mean any harm, they're only playing, and it is actually a critical part of their behavioural development.
But their puppy teeth are like needles, and they really hurt. The teeth get easily entangled in clothing, leaving the pup hanging out of trouser legs, sleeves, shoelaces and scarves long after the pup has tried to let go.
Now, whilst an adult or older child can deal with all of this, and indeed rationalise it, a toddler or younger child can't. Pup bites, child screams, pup is highly reinforced for eliciting a scream, waving arms, child running away... There is nothing a pup loves more than chasing a screaming, flailing, retreating toy. And so, the pup becomes more inclined to approach the toddler with divilment in mind.
So, you end up with a child who, in each and every incident, is feeling the pain of a playful puppy bite, and who tries to get away from the pup, but can't because the pup keeps chasing them, or getting their teeth tangled in the toddler's clothing. Many puppies are relentless with the biting, and need to be taught gently and consistently how to not use their teeth when they're interacting with humans. This is a huge ask of a toddler... An unreasonable ask.
This is why you're being advised by many experienced owners and fosterers not to get a pup, because you've got not one, but two very young kids.
I think I've already said it in this thread, I work in dog training, and one of the most common scenarios I'm asked to help with is how to stop the new pup biting the kids because the kids are now terrified of the pup. As far as the kids are concerned, there is a land-shark wielding a reign of terror in their home. I'll be honest, it's a very sad sight to see... Puppy approaching child, child recoils, crying. Unfortunately, I've seen this hundreds and hundreds of times. It's without doubt a primary reason why pups are surrendered so often.
There is a monumental difference between a pup of 10 weeks, and a young dog of 6 months when it comes to biting. By that stage, they've done most of their puppyish bitey messing, they have their not-so-tangly and sharp adult teeth, and their brains have turned an important behavioural corner, particularly if their original owner put any sort of work into them.
You'll know pretty quickly how a young adult dog feels about your children by its disposition towards them. Also, a few simple tests... Loop your fingers under the dog's chest, just behind the front legs, and slowly and gently raise the dog so his front feet are just off the floor. If he wriggles and struggles without giving up after 10-20 seconds, this is a reasonably good indication that this dog might be a bit sassy to have around kids. If he struggles a bit but then relaxes, it indicates that the pup doesn't like what's happening but is willing to tolerate it... Which is good. If there's no struggling at all, it's likely that this is quite a relaxed dog that has no huge handling issues.
Also, have the rescue person give the dog a bowl of food. As the dog is eating, approach it, and lean over the dog. If you see the slightest sign of freezing or tension, do not choose this dog. What you want to see here is, when you lean over the dog, it looks at you with relaxed features, and says "oh hi! I'm eating! Want some?"
On a similar vein, have the rescue person give the dog a chewy treat, something big enough that it can't devour it in a couple of chomps. Again, approach the dog, lean over it, and slowly reach out to the dog (without attempting to take the chew). If the dog takes the chew and skulks away, if he places head or paws over it to stop you touching it, if he freezes and looks at you with whites of eyes showing and without moving his head, don't take this dog. But if he looks at you with a big open, happy face and a loosely wagging tail, you've a fair idea that this is a nice, friendly dog.
To be safe in the above scenarios, have someone holding the dog on-lead on the opposite side to your approach, so that they can stop the dog from lunging at you if the worst comes to the worst. I will also point out that these little tests are probably more reliable in dogs from 5-6 months onwards than in pups, though if I saw a pup guarding its food or treats, I'd run for the hills.
So if you're hell-bent on a youngster, why not go for something 6-12 months old? There are thousands of dogs in this age group in rescue.
Some very good advice in this post but some of it a bit over the top. If someone goes to a rescue looking for a dog they're not necessarily going to get a perfect dog with no bad habits. You're basically saying only take the most placid dog in the place?0 -
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Swagger, DBB's tests are brilliant - I'm going to take note of them now. I did notice she said this: "You'll know pretty quickly how a young adult dog feels about your children by its disposition towards them." and it's totally true.
I have one dog that can't stand kids - she hates the noise and running and general unpredictability, and if the kids next door visit she takes herself out of the room until they leave. My other dog LOVES kids (he loves all people, but especially children). He goes bananas if he hears a ball being kicked or children laughing, and my main worry is that he'll knock very little kids over trying to lick them to death. He's a terrier, so can be a bit sharp if people annoy him and I'd never leave him alone with kids, but he is a million times better suited to children than my other dog.
You would know this within 5 minutes of meeting them, never mind the more in depth knowledge a fosterer could have of your prospective dog.
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Be under no illusions swagger, most pups will bite and bite and bite and bite. Relentlessly. It's what they do. They don't mean any harm, they're only playing, and it is actually a critical part of their behavioural development.
But their puppy teeth are like needles, and they really hurt. The teeth get easily entangled in clothing, leaving the pup hanging out of trouser legs, sleeves, shoelaces and scarves long after the pup has tried to let go.
Now, whilst an adult or older child can deal with all of this, and indeed rationalise it, a toddler or younger child can't. Pup bites, child screams, pup is highly reinforced for eliciting a scream, waving arms, child running away... There is nothing a pup loves more than chasing a screaming, flailing, retreating toy. And so, the pup becomes more inclined to approach the toddler with divilment in mind.
So, you end up with a child who, in each and every incident, is feeling the pain of a playful puppy bite, and who tries to get away from the pup, but can't because the pup keeps chasing them, or getting their teeth tangled in the toddler's clothing. Many puppies are relentless with the biting, and need to be taught gently and consistently how to not use their teeth when they're interacting with humans. This is a huge ask of a toddler... An unreasonable ask.
This is why you're being advised by many experienced owners and fosterers not to get a pup, because you've got not one, but two very young kids.
I think I've already said it in this thread, I work in dog training, and one of the most common scenarios I'm asked to help with is how to stop the new pup biting the kids because the kids are now terrified of the pup. As far as the kids are concerned, there is a land-shark wielding a reign of terror in their home. I'll be honest, it's a very sad sight to see... Puppy approaching child, child recoils, crying. Unfortunately, I've seen this hundreds and hundreds of times. It's without doubt a primary reason why pups are surrendered so often.
There is a monumental difference between a pup of 10 weeks, and a young dog of 6 months when it comes to biting. By that stage, they've done most of their puppyish bitey messing, they have their not-so-tangly and sharp adult teeth, and their brains have turned an important behavioural corner, particularly if their original owner put any sort of work into them.
You'll know pretty quickly how a young adult dog feels about your children by its disposition towards them. Also, a few simple tests... Loop your fingers under the dog's chest, just behind the front legs, and slowly and gently raise the dog so his front feet are just off the floor. If he wriggles and struggles without giving up after 10-20 seconds, this is a reasonably good indication that this dog might be a bit sassy to have around kids. If he struggles a bit but then relaxes, it indicates that the pup doesn't like what's happening but is willing to tolerate it... Which is good. If there's no struggling at all, it's likely that this is quite a relaxed dog that has no huge handling issues.
Also, have the rescue person give the dog a bowl of food. As the dog is eating, approach it, and lean over the dog. If you see the slightest sign of freezing or tension, do not choose this dog. What you want to see here is, when you lean over the dog, it looks at you with relaxed features, and says "oh hi! I'm eating! Want some?"
On a similar vein, have the rescue person give the dog a chewy treat, something big enough that it can't devour it in a couple of chomps. Again, approach the dog, lean over it, and slowly reach out to the dog (without attempting to take the chew). If the dog takes the chew and skulks away, if he places head or paws over it to stop you touching it, if he freezes and looks at you with whites of eyes showing and without moving his head, don't take this dog. But if he looks at you with a big open, happy face and a loosely wagging tail, you've a fair idea that this is a nice, friendly dog.
To be safe in the above scenarios, have someone holding the dog on-lead on the opposite side to your approach, so that they can stop the dog from lunging at you if the worst comes to the worst. I will also point out that these little tests are probably more reliable in dogs from 5-6 months onwards than in pups, though if I saw a pup guarding its food or treats, I'd run for the hills.
So if you're hell-bent on a youngster, why not go for something 6-12 months old? There are thousands of dogs in this age group in rescue.
Thank you some great advice here. Maybe a puppy at this stage might not be a good idea. Im glad I posted this thread as Im getting a lot of real life scenarios which is what I need to hear.0 -
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Carla Ancient Fishnet wrote: »I certainly am not rushing in, if I was I would have a dog by now! I posted this thread to learn about the reality of having a dog as I haven't had one yet. Im considering all options and doing my reasearch which is the responsible thing to do. I will not get a dog until I am 100% sure. And I may decide to hold off till kids are older.
You could maybe "dog watch" at some popular walking spots and suss out different breeds/mixes/sizes and also gauge how the kids react? Or there's usually a dog expo on Paddy's day at the show centre in Cloughran that you could head along to - again you'll see just about everything there with people bringing dogs along. 0 -
You could maybe "dog watch" at some popular walking spots and suss out different breeds/mixes/sizes and also gauge how the kids react? Or there's usually a dog expo on Paddy's day at the show centre in Cloughran that you could head along to - again you'll see just about everything there with people bringing dogs along.
I am on dog watch every day! Its so hard to not just go get one but that would be really irresponsible. I almost ran away with a gorgeous little shih tzu yesterday belonging to staff at a shelter I visited. I will definitely look into that show, we would love that.0 -
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