Hail To The Chief (Read Mod Warning In OP)

super_furry · 24-01-2017 12:46PM

All the bull**** from the Trump camp has forced a real hardening of attitudes in the press over the last few days. I don't think any organisation would have been so blunt and direct had Trump and his crew not carried on the way they did.

https://twitter.com/mikiebarb/status/823853950034182144

jaykay74 · 24-01-2017 12:53PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

I wonder will they be able to come up with something as snappy as Killary for Donald?

Kim Don Trump

Billy86 · 24-01-2017 12:54PM

super_furry wrote: »

All the bull**** from the Trump camp has forced a real hardening of attitudes in the press over the last few days. I don't think any organisation would have been so blunt and direct had Trump and his crew not carried on the way they did.

https://twitter.com/mikiebarb/status/823853950034182144

To be honest, publications need to call him out more often and to do it to his face as well. There was the video circulating a few weeks ago for example, where he said he had never met Putin, interspliced with a video of him talking about when he met Putin. It was pretty clear that the interviewer was aware of this when he said he didn't, and yet all said interviewer did was ask again one or two other times. It's a sign of just how spineless a lot of the American media really is, and at times like that they need to point blank say to his face that he already said he met Putin. Now we all know what Trump's response would be - "I never said that" - so they have to have the audio ready to air as soon as he denies it.

With all of the technology and ease of access to the likes of this, the media - who's job is to seek the truth on such matters - really need to take full advantage of it and to be fully ready to things like "I never said that", and a failure to do so is a sign of real laziness and/or spinelessness within their ranks to be honest.

This goes for all politicians, but is most notable with Trump who point blank lies at a rate probably never seen before.

Leroy42 · 24-01-2017 01:14PM

IMO, this is a very telling time for the future of the press media. Trump has got a lot of people to basically write off everything they say as biased and part of a conspiracy. Of course, they themselves hold part of the blame for this. Like in Ireland during the boom, the media gets too cozy to the very people they are apparently holding to account.

Soft ball questions are asked and never followed up. Each reporter seems to have a pre prepared question and pays little attention to what was said, or not. to the last question. It would appear that their agenda is more important than the truth.

What they are faced with now is an administration openly hostile to them, a public openly critical of them, and a continuing shrinking market suffering from increased competition etc.

So what to do? IMO, if they continue on as before they will be dead. So they need to change. They need to understand what the core role is. Neither a cheerleader or a raging critic, but critical analysis of what is actually being said and done. If Trump (or any other politician for that matter) refuses to answer a question or sidesteps it in a press conference, the next journalist should ask the same question (amended to tighten the wiggle room). By doing this the politicians etc will know that avoid a single question is not enough as the next one will just repeat it. Think Jeremy Paxman or Theresa May on Sunday, the politician comes out looking bad, even without the question being answered.

The media need to reexamine their role, what is the purpose and how best to achieve it. There is no problem with having a preferred outcome (bias) once it is clear and doesn't get in the way. Report the facts, even if that means praising those you don't agree with and tackling those you do. Nobody is ever always right.

infogiver · 24-01-2017 01:38PM

VinLieger wrote: »

Ahhh the good old tradition for the sake of tradition argument.

Yes lets go back to monarchies and serfdom while were at it.

If anything the fact that they have been using the EC for over 200 years is much more of an argument for reforming than keeping it.

How so? Would it just be better if they'd changed it for this election because that means that Clinton would have won? Why don't people concentrate on getting to the bottom of the REAL problem?
Why did so few young people come out to vote?

BabyCheeses · 24-01-2017 01:40PM

Trump claiming that 3-5 millions voters were illegal. isn't there meant to be 11 million illegals in the country? Impressive how they manage to have around the same voter turn out as citizens.

Guess the popular vote does matter.

Trent Houseboat · 24-01-2017 01:46PM

BabyCheeses wrote:

Trump claiming that 3-5 millions voters were illegal. isn't there meant to be 11 million illegals in the country? Impressive how they manage to have around the same voter turn out as citizens.

Guess the popular vote does matter.

Why does he keep bringing it up?
Everyone knows he's lying and it just reminds people that he hasn't much of a mandate.

Little CuChulainn · 24-01-2017 01:46PM

I wonder how long Fox will be able to remain his cheerleader.

BabyCheeses · 24-01-2017 01:48PM

Trent Houseboat wrote: »

Why does he keep bringing it up?
Everyone knows he's lying and it just reminds people that he hasn't much of a mandate.

His ego.

Someone should suggest putting a man on Mars would be a bigly legacy, that retard will throw all the money he can at NASA to stroke his ego.

jobbridge4life · 24-01-2017 01:51PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I wonder how long Fox will be able to remain his cheerleader.

Probably till they emerge from their gilded bomb-shelters and look at the smoldering wreck of America.

infogiver · 24-01-2017 01:52PM

Grayson wrote: »

Not just poor people. How about people who are disabled or have long term illnesses? Apparently the rules is that if you can't pay you suffer/die.

I think that here in Ireland we are living in a Western European socialist democratic state where the basic tenets are that everyone must be housed fed and made better from illness.
If you cannot (or will not) house feed or pay to cure yourself then the rest of your countrymen will look after you.
And we accept that, mostly. We grumble, but we won't stand back and see another countryman starve to death in the cold.
Not so in US
In the US, for the vast majority of voters, it's a case of "I work 12 hours a day. I feed and clothe and educate my children and put a roof over their heads. Now you do the same or don't have any kids. I expect my tax dollars in the main to be spent on improving the infrastructure and maintaining public services not to be given in handouts to the terminally lazy and the criminals".
It's just a completely different culture.

InTheTrees · 24-01-2017 01:54PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Soft ball questions are asked and never followed up. Each reporter seems to have a pre prepared question and pays little attention to what was said, or not. to the last question. It would appear that their agenda is more important than the truth.

When I first moved to the USA twenty years ago it was very hard to get used to the subservient role the US news media took towards politicians.

They seemed to act as a conduit for a politician to put over their view unquestioned.

Their access to the politicians also seemed far more important than their drive to discover Truth. The threat of being struck off the "white house press corps" can be a career ender for some journalists so its in their interest not to rock the boat.

MightyMandarin · 24-01-2017 01:55PM

The Guardian posted a video of hundreds booing Trump's motorcade last Friday.

I can imagine KellyAnne and Donald had a conversation not too dissimilar to this in the car

Trent Houseboat · 24-01-2017 01:56PM

wrote:

The guardian posted a video of hundreds booing Trump's motorcade last Friday.

I can imagine KellyAnne and Donald had a conversation not too dissimilar to this in the car

Alternative cheers.

PopePalpatine · 24-01-2017 01:58PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I wonder how long Fox will be able to remain his cheerleader.

Just wait until he hits a roadblock in Congress thanks to the neocon wing (e.g. John McCain).

kunst nugget · 24-01-2017 02:03PM

infogiver wrote: »

Not so in US
In the US, for the vast majority of voters, it's a case of "I work 12 hours a day. I feed and clothe and educate my children and put a roof over their heads. Now you do the same or don't have any kids. I expect my tax dollars in the main to be spent on improving the infrastructure and maintaining public services not to be given in handouts to the terminally lazy and the criminals".
It's just a completely different culture.

I understand the mindset… it's just not a pretty one. It reminds of the video of those teabaggers campaigning against health care reform insulting the Parkinson's victim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ik4f1dRbP8

BoJack Horseman · 24-01-2017 02:08PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

At least Donald isn't a warmonger like Killary:

Those weren't US planes..... they were Turkish F-16s working with Russia over Al-Bab.
US drones have been busy over idlib province but I don't think that fixed wing assets have been.

At least Donald doesn't take money from terrible countries, unlike Corrupt Hillary

Those FMS (foreign military sales) were negotiated and approved by the St Obama administration.
The State Dept approved the Kuwaiti deal (mostly for Boeing F/A-18s) on November the 17th after a protracted negotiation period

Here is the details:
http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/government-kuwait-fa-18ef-super-hornet-aircraft-support

facts eh!

infogiver · 24-01-2017 02:10PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

I understand the mindset… it's just not a pretty one. It reminds of the video of those teabaggers campaigning against health care reform insulting the Parkinson's victim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ik4f1dRbP8

No it's not pretty but it's the way it is. A lot over there would view the UK in particular as a "commie hell hole" with the free education and the NHS. The fact that British people seem to be able to pretty much enjoy a good standard of living nonetheless is a bit of a mystery to the Americans, I think.

InTheTrees · 24-01-2017 02:20PM

infogiver wrote: »

No it's not pretty but it's the way it is. A lot over there would view the UK in particular as a "commie hell hole" with the free education and the NHS. The fact that British people seem to be able to pretty much enjoy a good standard of living nonetheless is a bit of a mystery to the Americans, I think.

Oh they dont know that. The news media would never compare standards of living with a foreign country unless its negative. It just wouldnt happen.

Igotadose · 24-01-2017 02:28PM

Grayson wrote: »

Cost is also the biggest issue for Americans. Third level education is ridiculously expensive. It creates a two tier system where only the children of well off parents can get the advantages of a third level education.

It's a scam perpetuated by the Universities; saw an article last year talking about professorships as the 'last great bastion of crony capitalism.' So true. The 'for-profit' Universities (like Trump U!) only made this worse, but it's laughably bad even without them. Tenure is an abuse, and the salaries and raises are wildly out of sync with the rest of the US.

The lie that "Every child must go to college" is a big driver behind this. Sorry, it's not true - Ireland gets this more right, you at least need something like decent grades and the ability to work to get into the better schools. The fools like Sanders who want to make public colleges tuition free are only going to make it worse - too many kids go to college for the available jobs out there. Too many PhD's churned out for the paltry few academic jobs that are given out to friends and family anyway. And the rampant discrimination and sexism is pretty glaring.

Back to Trump - his Education pick, Betsy DeVos, is a perfect example of a typical American involved with the Education industry - stupid and full of s**t, but greedy as the day is long. Can't even tweet complete sentences, and was a deer in the headlights during her confirmation hearing. Charter schools, please, they're not the answer. It's the parents (which of course, mostly as being products of the American education system, are lacking too.)

And the better unis of course are the bastions for the offspring of the ..01%; it's how they retain their hold and ensure their wealth passes on to children who are married to other children, who will hold onto the wealth. The majority of the wealthiest in the US inherited their money (like Trump.) Raising the tax rate on the top 1% to something like 50% of income including capital gains would help fix this. Getting a reasonable estate tax (maybe shelter $10m, and the rest is ordinary income to the recipient), would work as well.

Little CuChulainn · 24-01-2017 02:30PM

Igotadose wrote: »

It's a scam perpetuated by the Universities; saw an article last year talking about professorships as the 'last great bastion of crony capitalism.' So true. The 'for-profit' Universities (like Trump U!) only made this worse, but it's laughably bad even without them. Tenure is an abuse, and the salaries and raises are wildly out of sync with the rest of the US.

The lie that "Every child must go to college" is a big driver behind this. Sorry, it's not true - Ireland gets this more right, you at least need something like decent grades and the ability to work to get into the better schools. The fools like Sanders who want to make public colleges tuition free are only going to make it worse - too many kids go to college for the available jobs out there. Too many PhD's churned out for the paltry few academic jobs that are given out to friends and family anyway. And the rampant discrimination and sexism is pretty glaring.

Back to Trump - his Education pick, Betsy DeVos, is a perfect example of a typical American involved with the Education industry - stupid and full of s**t, but greedy as the day is long. Can't even tweet complete sentences, and was a deer in the headlights during her confirmation hearing. Charter schools, please, they're not the answer. It's the parents (which of course, mostly as being products of the American education system, are lacking too.)

And the better unis of course are the bastions for the offspring of the ..01%; it's how they retain their hold and ensure their wealth passes on to children who are married to other children, who will hold onto the wealth. The majority of the wealthiest in the US inherited their money (like Trump.) Raising the tax rate on the top 1% to something like 50% of income including capital gains would help fix this. Getting a reasonable estate tax (maybe shelter $10m, and the rest is ordinary income to the recipient), would work as well.

I'd argue that the benefit of going to college is more than just the qualification it brings.

Wanderer78 · 24-01-2017 02:31PM

Igotadose wrote: »

It's a scam perpetuated by the Universities; saw an article last year talking about professorships as the 'last great bastion of crony capitalism.' So true. The 'for-profit' Universities (like Trump U!) only made this worse, but it's laughably bad even without them. Tenure is an abuse, and the salaries and raises are wildly out of sync with the rest of the US.

The lie that "Every child must go to college" is a big driver behind this. Sorry, it's not true - Ireland gets this more right, you at least need something like decent grades and the ability to work to get into the better schools. The fools like Sanders who want to make public colleges tuition free are only going to make it worse - too many kids go to college for the available jobs out there. Too many PhD's churned out for the paltry few academic jobs that are given out to friends and family anyway. And the rampant discrimination and sexism is pretty glaring.

Back to Trump - his Education pick, Betsy DeVos, is a perfect example of a typical American involved with the Education industry - stupid and full of s**t, but greedy as the day is long. Can't even tweet complete sentences, and was a deer in the headlights during her confirmation hearing. Charter schools, please, they're not the answer. It's the parents (which of course, mostly as being products of the American education system, are lacking too.)

And the better unis of course are the bastions for the offspring of the ..01%; it's how they retain their hold and ensure their wealth passes on to children who are married to other children, who will hold onto the wealth. The majority of the wealthiest in the US inherited their money (like Trump.) Raising the tax rate on the top 1% to something like 50% of income including capital gains would help fix this. Getting a reasonable estate tax (maybe shelter $10m, and the rest is ordinary income to the recipient), would work as well.

free educational systems more than likely reduce inequality in society, therefore reducing the development of more complex social issues

super_furry · 24-01-2017 02:43PM

https://twitter.com/davidleigh3/status/823875636355878913

Another big statement of intent from the press. They're going to be gunning for Trump like no other president since Nixon and it's all his own fault.

Billy86 · 24-01-2017 02:54PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I'd argue that the benefit of going to college is more than just the qualification it brings.

It's a good point, and completely off on a tangent here but with the easy access to information available to us making the 'hard facts' end of education less valuable than it used to be (not at all to say worthless, but I can google a scientific fact or info on an historic event in a matter of minutes if not seconds) it makes me wonder how important drilling these into primary/secondary aged schoolkids really is these days compared to teaching important issues like life skills and budgeting, critical thought, adaptability (which the increasing rate of technology really does necessitate) and so on, to develop a better thought process into the bigger picture of that scientific fact or why that historical event happened, it's consequences, and how it is relevant today.

Now people do not lack those faculties by default having not gone to college etc, but they are considerably more likely to be found lacking in them down to a lack of mental training (otherwise referred to as education, I guess), and we've been seeing lately just how easily a lack of these can be manipulated and taken advantage of, to the point of having people actively advocate against their own better interests.

*That's not to say science, history, etc shouldn't be taught, but that the focus should be more on the theory and critical thinking behind the subject rather than just the copy-and-paste hard answers.

MadYaker · 24-01-2017 03:27PM

The donald claiming 3 - 5 million people voted ilegally. Surely if that's the case then the election is invalid and he is an ilegitimate president?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/01/23/at-white-house-trump-tells-congressional-leaders-3-5-million-illegal-ballots-cost-him-the-popular-vote/?utm_term=.38a02bdd750a

Rjd2 · 24-01-2017 03:32PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

Her own tweets in relation to Sharia Law in America…

https://mobile.twitter.com/lsarsour/status/598327052727615488

https://mobile.twitter.com/lsarsour/status/598326262218813440

https://mobile.twitter.com/lsarsour/status/530197072486473729

https://twitter.com/RitaPanahi/status/822931574106660865

https://twitter.com/LaloDagach

https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/823754120578433024

Yep a very unpleasant character, pretty sure have read she is down with Hamas also. Oh and obviously hates Ayaan Hirsi Ali also.

It doesn't take much away from what was an awesome protest, but it does highlight an issue the extreme elements of the left have, this rather bizarre friendship with hardline Islamists.

Little CuChulainn · 24-01-2017 03:43PM

Billy86 wrote: »

It's a good point, and completely off on a tangent here but with the easy access to information available to us making the 'hard facts' end of education less valuable than it used to be (not at all to say worthless, but I can google a scientific fact or info on an historic event in a matter of minutes if not seconds) it makes me wonder how important drilling these into primary/secondary aged schoolkids really is these days compared to teaching important issues like life skills and budgeting, critical thought, adaptability (which the increasing rate of technology really does necessitate) and so on, to develop a better thought process into the bigger picture of that scientific fact or why that historical event happened, it's consequences, and how it is relevant today.

Now people do not lack those faculties by default having not gone to college etc, but they are considerably more likely to be found lacking in them down to a lack of mental training (otherwise referred to as education, I guess), and we've been seeing lately just how easily a lack of these can be manipulated and taken advantage of, to the point of having people actively advocate against their own better interests.

*That's not to say science, history, etc shouldn't be taught, but that the focus should be more on the theory and critical thinking behind the subject rather than just the copy-and-paste hard answers.

Yeah you could google it but how would you know to if you hadn't been thought about it in the first place? There's certainly an argument for teaching beyond the facts but there's also an argument for keeping things factual and letting people form their own opinions.

Rjd2 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/RitaPanahi/status/822931574106660865

https://twitter.com/LaloDagach

https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/823754120578433024

Yep a very unpleasant character, pretty sure have read she is down with Hamas also. Oh and obviously hates Ayaan Hirsi Ali also.

It doesn't take much away from what was an awesome protest, but it does highlight an issue the extreme elements of the left have, this rather bizarre friendship with hardline Islamists.

She apparently has "family ties" to Hamas. but if family ties to terrorists was a reason to dismiss someones opinion half of Ireland would probably be silenced. I've been looking for some kind of explanation of her tweets in relation to Sharia law. None of her defenders seem to want to touch the issue. As far as I can tell she has no interest in bringing Sharia law to the country, she just wants the right to live by it. An interesting conflict between freedom of religion and the values of the people.

RobertKK · 24-01-2017 03:50PM

super_furry wrote: »

https://twitter.com/davidleigh3/status/823875636355878913

Another big statement of intent from the press. They're going to be gunning for Trump like no other president since Nixon and it's all his own fault.

It kinds of suggests they were not doing their job in regards to Obama and his predecessors.

Butters1979 · 24-01-2017 03:52PM

RobertKK wrote: »

It kinds of suggests they were not doing their job in regards to Obama and his predecessors.

Yeah isn't 'reporting the truth' something they always should have done. Or now are we getting something else? It's gong to galvanise his supporters.

Billy86 · 24-01-2017 03:55PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Yeah you could google it but how would you know to if you hadn't been thought about it in the first place? There's certainly an argument for teaching beyond the facts but there's also an argument for keeping things factual and letting people form their own opinions.

Well yeah, I'm not saying to abandon the facts completely at all - but to teach them in different sense, with more emphasis on the why/how as opposed to constant repetition of the the what/where/when aspects.

Hail To The Chief (Read Mod Warning In OP)

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