Why firearms are so strictly controlled in Ireland and UK

Graces7 wrote: »

...The car was suddenly surrounded by armed soldiers. I did not know then re cash deliveries that were then protected by soldiers...

Yep, that is the actual army, the hardware in question is the Steyer AUG military rifle chambered in 5.56mm NATO, full-metal-jacket, yes they are loaded. Impressive, isn't it? That's one thing you don't even see in Texas. Needless to say, cash-in-transit robberies are rather rare here. :pac:

Graces7 wrote: »

There is no way of expressing the terror I was in.

But why?
Had you previously lived in a country where the Army were to be feared?
Or was it simply due to ignorance/TV show based information?

Nekarsulm wrote: »

But why?
Had you previously lived in a country where the Army were to be feared?
Or was it simply due to ignorance/TV show based information?

I don't think you need to have lived somewhere where the army is to be feared to become nervous if you find yourself suddenly and unexpectedly surrounded by people armed to the teeth.

Shenshen wrote: »

I don't think you need to have lived somewhere where the army is to be feared to become nervous if you find yourself suddenly and unexpectedly surrounded by people armed to the teeth.

Yes, that's exactly what the Army is just a bunch of people with no assumed moral and legal framework to use their weapons.

If you're afraid of the army having guns solely because they have them, then that's nobody's fault but your own.

Shenshen wrote: »

I don't think you need to have lived somewhere where the army is to be feared to become nervous if you find yourself suddenly and unexpectedly surrounded by people armed to the teeth.

We're talking about professional soldiers of the standing army of a Western European republic. They are there as a visual deterrent (the loaded magazines are "visible") to certain paramilitary elements and as such are extremely effective. The last thing they are is armed thugs.

Titzon Toast wrote: »

In America, you are more likely to be shot by your own gun than by someone else's.
How many children are shot and killed every day over there too? Off the top of my head it's around 10 a day. Think about that for second.
It's a foolish notion to want to have more guns in our little country too.
If you want more fun, go play football or something.

Again, most of us don't want something like the US. Why do you always go to the US as the example of deregulating gun laws? We have some of the most pervasive gun laws in Europe. The Czech Republic has fewer gun-related deaths than Australia (who also have rather pervasive gun laws) despite having a much more relaxed regulatory framework.

"b-but the US" isn't the end-all be-all of an argument.

Shenshen wrote: »

I certainly would be apprehensive if I found myself surrounded by armed soldiers when I was just dropping down to the shops.
And I don't honestly think that that's entirely unreasonable, either.

The military were outside a bank. It's not the same as seeing a dozen of them marching through Centra with rifles at the ready.

Shenshen wrote: »

I can't speak for the details of the situation, I wasn't there, but assuming I was waiting outside a bank and a bunch of people appeared in military outfits and armed, my first thought would most likely not be "Ah, look at those good chaps from the armed forces, out on duty within the legal and moral framework, bless them".

Well that's your problem then, isn't it? You being afraid of people with firearms is not justified cause for nobody having guns. "Period".

Shenshen wrote: »

Yep, cause most people would instantly be able to see the difference.

The uniform probably gives it away.

AnGaelach wrote: »

The uniform probably gives it away.

To be honest, I see too many people day in, day out in some sort of camouflage. If they're all soldiers, the Irish army is a formidable force indeed.

AnGaelach wrote: »

The military were outside a bank. It's not the same as seeing a dozen of them marching through Centra with rifles at the ready...

I saw three or four of them double-timing it through the local Centra a few years back. The rifles were shouldered and safetied though, and they were after sandwiches and Fanta, not paramilitaries. :pac:

AnGaelach wrote: »

That isn't how it works... Like, at all.

You're aware of a few little groups called Republicans and Loyalists, right? I love guns, but having strict control over guns (and especially calibre) makes sense here. There's no domestic production, whatever comes in has to be imported under license (or bought illegally), meaning it can be (relatively) controlled.

Sure the Republicans used explosives to a greater extent, but I've no doubt that they'd use guns as well if they had greater access to them.

Actually the laugh is you could get access legally to much more lethal weaponry in Northern Ireland than you could here and they are the ones with the most paramilitaries.

I think there has long been a mindset in Ireland that the general public should not have access to weapons.
It goes all the way back to the foundation of the state.
They brought in act in 1925.
It guess it made sense after civil war.

The Troubles were used as an excuse to tighten it up and the drug related gun crime was used recently as excuse to remove even more handguns.

It is the usual trite mantra trotted out by ministers that they will remove guns to protect the people, when really they mean they will remove legally held firearms that are used for things like target shooting.

It sounds good and it is easier to target (pardon the pun) law abiding people than actually the scrots with the illegal heavy weaponry. :rolleyes:

As if the major drugs gangs and dissident paramilitaries are going round robbing handguns used for target shooting in preference to glocks and the like that are it appears fairly freely available.

In 2004 Mr. Brophy a shooting enthusiast challenged a Garda decision to refuse him a firearm certificate for a Toz-35m which is a single shot sport shooting pistol allowed by the International Olympic Committee.
The High Court quashed an earlier finding, and was granted a firearm certificate for the handgun in question.



Yep I can see all the hitmen walking around with these on their drive by shootings. :rolleyes:
This is what goes for one of the most restrictive gun control in Europe.

And nobody is trying to emulate the US of A where insanity appears to be the best description for their gun laws.

Shenshen wrote: »

To be honest, I see too many people day in, day out in some sort of camouflage. If they're all soldiers, the Irish army is a formidable force indeed.

are they wearing a full set of webbing as well?

jmayo wrote: »

Actually the laugh is you could get access legally to much more lethal weaponry in Northern Ireland than you could here and they are the ones with the most paramilitaries.

I think there has long been a mindset in Ireland that the general public should not have access to weapons.
It goes all the way back to the foundation of the state.
They brought in act in 1925.
It guess it made sense after civil war.

The Troubles were used as an excuse to tighten it up and the drug related gun crime was used recently as excuse to remove even more handguns.

...

The funny thing about that is that Gerry Adams was given a licence to carry a concealed weapon by the british government. for his personal protection. you couldnt make it up.