Hail To The Chief (Read Mod Warning In OP)

Manic Moran · 23-01-2017 02:37AM

To address an earlier post, as a minor detail of law, the 1st Amendment applies solely to the government. Unlike in Ireland, the Constitution is a bit more limited in its applicability, and cannot be enforced by an individual against an individual. For example, the 4th will protect your house against illegal entry by police, but it will not provide a Constitutional complaint against a burglar.

That said, of course, there are plenty of other laws that cover these things, from trespass to libel to battery.

Manic Moran · 23-01-2017 02:48AM

rossie1977 wrote: »

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

The scary thing about this is that the rush to hire people will probably see unqualified and poorly vetted people getting the jobs.

He had two months to fill his top cabinet spots and hired 10 out of 15 people with zero political experience. He put a doctor in charge of housing so it's going to be interesting to see what comes next.

Apparently he's not far off 'typical speed' for new administrations.
As for Housing, although it's by no means a qualification for the job, it's worth noting that Carson is a product of the sorts of urban housing that Dept of H&UD is supposed to fix, from what I can find, the same cannot be said of his two predecessors. Thus, he has a very personal motivation in the matter to counter his lack of on-subject experience. On the other hand, the outgoing (outgone) Secretary of Defense is a theoretical physicist without a day in uniform who is getting replaced by a highly regarded career Marine, so it's not as if Trump is alone in picking initially questionable cabinet appointments. Though I will certainly concede that he's picked some far more questionable ones than Carson.

BabyCheeses · 23-01-2017 03:02AM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

No different than the lies told by previous press officers although they may have been more subtle, that's what he's paid to do. Only difference now is much higher scrutiny because of the war between Trump and the media. This storyline would be much different without those Wikileak releases.

I thought Trump was meant to be different? Drain the swamp? Now his supporters think it is fine to act the same as what they wanted change from? Why vote for him if it's just going to be the same?

darkpagandeath · 23-01-2017 03:23AM

BabyCheeses wrote: »

I thought Trump was meant to be different? Drain the swamp? Now his supporters think it is fine to act the same as what they wanted change from? Why vote for him if it's just going to be the same?

Obama screamed change... did very little.

namloc1980 · 23-01-2017 03:30AM

Manic Moran wrote: »

Apparently he's not far off 'typical speed' for new administrations.
As for Housing, although it's by no means a qualification for the job, it's worth noting that Carson is a product of the sorts of urban housing that Dept of H&UD is supposed to fix, from what I can find, the same cannot be said of his two predecessors. Thus, he has a very personal motivation in the matter to counter his lack of on-subject experience. On the other hand, the outgoing (outgone) Secretary of Defense is a theoretical physicist without a day in uniform who is getting replaced by a highly regarded career Marine, so it's not as if Trump is alone in picking initially questionable cabinet appointments. Though I will certainly concede that he's picked some far more questionable ones than Carson.

Ash Carter had 8 years experience in a senior role in the Dept of Defense prior to becoming the Secretary. He was confirmed 93-5 in the Senate so even the Republicans had no issues with him. Ben Carson on the other hand didn't grow up in public housing (a Republican alternative fact is that he did), has absolutely no experience whatsoever in any form of housing policy and it seems his only qualifications are that he had a relatively poor upbringing in Detroit.

namloc1980 · 23-01-2017 03:36AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Obama screamed change... did very little.

Trump promised to drain the swamp but has stuffed his cabinet with insiders and millionaires and had his Press Secretary lie blatantly in his first press conference. Some changes there alright.

rossie1977 · 23-01-2017 03:38AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Obama screamed change... did very little.

Obama kept or came to a compromise on 76% of his campaign promises http://www.tampabay.com/projects/2017/politifact/obameter/home/

darkpagandeath · 23-01-2017 03:40AM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Trump promised to drain the swamp but has stuffed his cabinet with insiders and millionaires and had his Press Secretary lie blatantly in his first press conference. Some changes there alright.

I'm waiting for policy introduction and alike, I gave Enda the benefit on the doubt on "New politics" on the outset. Did not materialise. It's day one and people are screaming. Again I cant see how an opinion is lying. Can some explain that to me ? What data did he present that was falsified ? Was there a slide show or something ?

Manic Moran · 23-01-2017 04:00AM

swampgas wrote: »

conditioned games wrote: »

His tax returns was never an issue for me. It would be good though if he released, either way I'm not too bothered.

But you don't know what's in those tax returns. Wouldn't it be better to know where he gets his money and who he owes money to before deciding that you're not too bothered?

My tax returns don't show from where I get my income. I just report how much I obtained from what category of income (eg interest payments, capital gains, salary), how much I paid in what sorts of taxes (Fed, State, Medicare etc) and what exemptions I'm claiming (Mortgage interest, property tax etc). All I would expect to see out of a Trump tax statement is "I earn a crapload of money, and paid the lawfully required tax on it"

I have to admit it, I'm baffled by all the Trump supporters going on about Obama launching drones and whatnot, but seem to be under same vague belief that Trump will just stop all current wars the US are involved in.

The interview with Mattis on PBS the other day may illuminate something there. The position he advocates, which I think is shared by much of the military, is that if we're going to go about killing ISIS, i.e. if it truly is in the National Interest to kill them, quit mucking about with half-arsed attempts, do it properly, do it fast, do it thoroughly, and then go home. Yes, it means more Americans will get killed. That's kindof a risk we take as soldiers. If it's not that important, then leave it be and don't send anyone anywhere to do anything.

namloc1980 · 23-01-2017 04:02AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I'm waiting for policy introduction and alike, I gave Enda the benefit on the doubt on "New politics" on the outset. Did not materialise. It's day one and people are screaming. Again I cant see how an opinion is lying. Can some explain that to me ? What data did he present that was falsified ? Was there a slide show or something ?

It wasn't an opinion:

This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration, period, both in person and around the globe

He stated it as fact (or alternative fact as Kellyanne Conway called it). Photos and all media outlets (including Fox) went with the crowd being much smaller than Obama 2009. No idea how he came up with his assertion it was globally the largest. TV ratings showed it as 7m less than Obama 2009, and even further behind Reagan 1981.

He presented the alternative fact that more people used the DC metro for the Trump inauguration than Obama 2009 with a few made up figures 420,000 to 317,000. Turns out that was a lie (alternative fact). Link

He then said:

This is the first time in our nation's history that floor coverings have been used to protect the grass on the Mall

Wrong again Sean. Link

Call them lies or alternative facts, Mr Spicer told quite a few.

darkpagandeath · 23-01-2017 04:04AM

Manic Moran wrote: »

My tax returns don't show from where I get my income. I just report how much I obtained from what category of income (eg interest payments, capital gains, salary), how much I paid in what sorts of taxes (Fed, State, Medicare etc) and what exemptions I'm claiming (Mortgage interest, property tax etc). All I would expect to see out of a Trump tax statement is "I earn a crapload of money, and paid the lawfully required tax on it"

The interview with Mattis on PBS the other day may illuminate something there. The position he advocates, which I think is shared by much of the military, is that if we're going to go about killing ISIS, i.e. if it truly is in the National Interest to kill them, quit mucking about with half-arsed attempts, do it properly, do it fast, do it thoroughly, and then go home. Yes, it means more Americans will get killed. That's kindof a risk we take as soldiers. If it's not that important, then leave it be and don't send anyone anywhere to do anything.

That was a major terrible problem Barry created. You either did it full with boots on the ground or nothing. He left it wide open for Russia in Syria. All the generals said you need to basically take over Syria like Iraq. Pulling out of Iraq was a terrible move and way to early. If you invade you better be in it for the long haul. Americans will die and have died.

darkpagandeath · 23-01-2017 04:05AM

namloc1980 wrote: »

It wasn't an opinion:

He stated it as fact (or alternative fact as Kellyanne Conway called it). Photos and all media outlets (including Fox) went with the crowd being much smaller than Obama 2009. No idea how he came up with his assertion it was globally the largest. TV ratings showed it as 7m less than Obama 2009, and even further behind Reagan 1981.

He presented the alternative fact that more people used the DC metro for the Trump inauguration than Obama 2009 with a few made up figures 420,000 to 317,000. Turns out that was a lie (alternative fact). Link

He then said:

Wrong again Sean. Link

Call them lies or alternative facts, Mr Spicer told quite a few.

Enda was days away from sending the military to the ATM's I assume he should be removed for lying ? Saying it's fact does not detract that it was his opinion and did not present any falsified data.

namloc1980 · 23-01-2017 04:12AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Enda was days away from sending the military to the ATM's I assume he should be removed for lying ? Saying it's fact does not detract that it was his opinion and did not present any falsified data.

Eh he presented false metro ridership figures! That's not opinion, he literally presented figures that were proven utterly wrong. He lied that this was the first time the grass had been covered on the Mall. Sticking your fingers in your ears won't make it any better. He told lies plain and simple.

darkpagandeath · 23-01-2017 04:15AM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Eh he presented false metro ridership figures! That's not opinion, he literally presented figures that were proven utterly wrong. He lied that this was the first time the grass had been covered on the Mall. Sticking your fingers in your ears won't make it any better. He told lies plain and simple.

link.

namloc1980 · 23-01-2017 04:23AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

link.

Did you not even watch his presser? You're here defending him and you obviously didn't even watch the very press briefing your defending! Lol. Go to 2:15 for the metro lie. Go to 1.10 for the floor covering lie

Here

23-01-2017 04:24AM

rossie1977 wrote: »

Obama kept or came to a compromise on 76% of his campaign promises http://www.tampabay.com/projects/2017/politifact/obameter/home/

And people still don't realise how unbelievably biased Politifact is. It's run by a Democrat newspaper.

Read the Drugs section. He gets a free pass on everything and it just shows how easy the media has been on him. The whole thing starts with a tug on heart strings.. A young girl whose 30 year conviction ruined her life until Obama came along. What did Obama do? Pardoned her after 20+ years and he gets a pat on the back.

Check some of what Politifact rated as compromises. It's honestly daft and you should be quoting the 48℅ figure if you have any interest in honesty.

Grayson · 23-01-2017 04:52AM

Deleted User wrote: »

And people still don't realise how unbelievably biased Politifact is. It's run by a Democrat newspaper.

Read the Drugs section. He gets a free pass on everything and it just shows how easy the media has been on him. The whole thing starts with a tug on heart strings.. A young girl whose 30 year conviction ruined her life until Obama came along. What did Obama do? Pardoned her after 20+ years and he gets a pat on the back.

Check some of what Politifact rated as compromises. It's honestly daft and you should be quoting the 48℅ figure if you have any interest in honesty.

How did they give Obama a free pass on drugs? It's a story about federal minimums which he fought against.

Here's the link for those that don't see it on the original page (the link is at the bottom)

http://www.tampabay.com/projects/2017/politifact/obameter/drug-sentencing/

BabyCheeses · 23-01-2017 05:03AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Obama screamed change... did very little.

Trump being the same as Obama is sure to get his supporters excited. And I was told Clinton would have been 4 more years of Obama.

darkpagandeath · 23-01-2017 05:09AM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Did you not even watch his presser? You're here defending him and you obviously didn't even watch the very press briefing your defending! Lol. Go to 2:15 for the metro lie. Go to 1.10 for the floor covering lie

Here

Are the metro figures incorrect ? He did not give the metro figures for Obama he gave Obama crowd figures. that's hardly lying. That's what press people do cherry-pick. Just like IW fanboys in the media here. He basically used the metro Figures in isolation. Again not a lie typical press spin. I cant see 400k on the metro as lies. Would have been way higher for Obama. So unless I'm missing something. He is basically saying metro figures to compare to Obama crowd turnout that were counted. Open to correction.

BabyCheeses · 23-01-2017 05:51AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Are the metro figures incorrect ? He did not give the metro figures for Obama he gave Obama crowd figures. that's hardly lying. That's what press people do cherry-pick. Just like IW fanboys in the media here. He basically used the metro Figures in isolation. Again not a lie typical press spin. I cant see 400k on the metro as lies. Would have been way higher for Obama. So unless I'm missing something. He is basically saying metro figures to compare to Obama crowd turnout that were counted. Open to correction.

Think I read even the metro numbers were off. Closest was comparing it to obamas second inauguration. Might be worth watching what he said, check if its correct and then find some angle you can use to defend him.

Here it is https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/22/trump-inauguration-crowd-sean-spicers-claims-versus-the-evidence

InTheTrees · 23-01-2017 07:05AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Saying it's fact does not detract that it was his opinion and did not present any falsified data.

Oh my god that's the funniest thing I've heard all day! So any lie he tells isn't really a lie because It's just his opinion?

We're in a post alternate fact world.

wonderfullife · 23-01-2017 07:25AM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Here's a photo of Trump's inauguration

Here's the photo being spread over twitter from places like Vox and other left wing sites

I'll make this really easy for you.

There's no "left-wing" conspiracy to make it look like there was far less people at Trumps inauguration than either of Obama's.

There was simply far less people there.

That shouldn't have been an issue or even in dispute. DC voted 90% for Hillary and of course there was going to be less turning out for Trump.

The issue is that people like yourself (Trump nuts) and Trump himself like to frame everything they don't like as "Fake News" or a conspiracy.

namloc1980 · 23-01-2017 07:27AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Are the metro figures incorrect ? He did not give the metro figures for Obama he gave Obama crowd figures. that's hardly lying. That's what press people do cherry-pick. Just like IW fanboys in the media here. He basically used the metro Figures in isolation. Again not a lie typical press spin. I cant see 400k on the metro as lies. Would have been way higher for Obama. So unless I'm missing something. He is basically saying metro figures to compare to Obama crowd turnout that were counted. Open to correction.

To quote him as you clearly missed it when listening to it:

We know that 420,000 people used the DC metro public transit yesterday, which is actually compares to 317,000 that used it for President Obama's last inaugural.

He stated that more people used the Metro for Trump than Obama last time out. This was a lie as DC metro confirmed from the above link and their own Twitter feed:

DC Metro

Looks like Spicer got his 317k figure from here which was usage up to 11am on the day of Obama 2013 (vs 193k for Trump to the same time) and compared that to his own made up figure of 420,000. The final full day figures per my above link were: Obama 2009 1.1m, Obama 2013 782k, Trump 571k. Spicer said more people used the metro for Trump than Obama. That's not spin, that's lying, period. Not sure why you're so desperate to defend the blatant lies but it's interesting seeing you try.

super_furry · 23-01-2017 08:49AM

The mental gymnastics people are jumping through here so that can allow themselves to believes Trump's lies, when their eyes tell them them truth, is scary.

InTheTrees · 23-01-2017 09:04AM

On Monday a watchdog group is filing a lawsuit against trump for violating the Emoluments clause of the US constitution.
That's to do with having business dealings with foreign powers, which he still has.
He claims he's separated himself from his business but its turning out he's a pathological liar and there hasn't been any papers filed to make a separation official so in effect the president of the united states is profiting from business dealings with foreign governments.

wonderfullife · 23-01-2017 09:12AM

InTheTrees wrote: »

On Monday a watchdog group is filing a lawsuit against trump for violating the Emoluments clause of the US constitution.
That's to do with having business dealings with foreign powers, which he still has.
He claims he's separated himself from his business but its turning out he's a pathological liar and there hasn't been any papers filed to make a separation official so in effect the president of the united states is profiting from business dealings with foreign governments.

The lawsuit today has some heavy-hitting constitutional lawyers behind it including Laurence Tribe and other former-Presidential ethics advisers.

Make no mistake though the devil is in the detail of the lawsuit.

The true aim isn't to get Trump on the Emoluments issue. It's that part of the lawsuit alludes to his tax returns and that's what they are really after. It's a trojan horse lawsuit to get his tax returns either through Discovery or another means.

It may stick too. If he releases his tax returns he's likely an impeachment risk if they dig into them. He's a con-man with ties everywhere.

infogiver · 23-01-2017 09:37AM

recipio wrote: »

He is a man child. Mine is bigger than yours - etc. I don't see him lasting four years.

There isn't a hope in hell of this lasting. He had no clue what being the President really entailed and as soon as he realises and discovers that shouting and bullying and firing won't work he'll throw his toys out of the pram and look for an out.
Serious health issues will do, very believable and hard to disprove.

My mother thinks 3 months I think around 10 months .

Igotadose · 23-01-2017 09:38AM

Manic Moran wrote: »

My tax returns don't show from where I get my income. I just report how much I obtained from what category of income (eg interest payments, capital gains, salary), how much I paid in what sorts of taxes (Fed, State, Medicare etc) and what exemptions I'm claiming (Mortgage interest, property tax etc). All I would expect to see out of a Trump tax statement is "I earn a crapload of money, and paid the lawfully required tax on it"

On your schedule D (which you must file) you report the origin of the dividends and interest. Further, you're required to file FINCEN showing income from overseas sources, which lists banks and accounts.

Manic Moran wrote: »

The interview with Mattis on PBS the other day may illuminate something there. The position he advocates, which I think is shared by much of the military, is that if we're going to go about killing ISIS, i.e. if it truly is in the National Interest to kill them, ....

Data? Military poll that agrees?

GWB got us tired of middle-east adventures. I am not sure the country nor the military has the will to get into it again. Whether 'boots on the ground' will make a difference viz. Isis is not clear in my opinion.

HellSquirrel · 23-01-2017 09:41AM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

He was wrong to do it, don't know what else to say.

That's actually all I wanted, that you might admit that something the man does is wrong. But this is an ongoing issue. And you personally even did try to wriggle out of it before being pinned down (the media were being mean to him, which is the whole point; no, it wasn't. the point was the WHPS lying for a petty point).

You seem to have a natural streak of honesty unlike some of the other guys, but if you deny the blatantly obvious or try to wiggle out of it, what does this mean when he lies about something important?

Edit: Reading the two pages after, immediate jump to whataboutery and distraction. Sigh. Oh well, sometimes I'm wrong believing the best about people. Yes, Hank, it's all a big conspiracy to be mean to the new president who never did nothing wrong.

Jelle1880 · 23-01-2017 10:03AM

InTheTrees wrote: »

On Monday a watchdog group is filing a lawsuit against trump for violating the Emoluments clause of the US constitution.
That's to do with having business dealings with foreign powers, which he still has.
He claims he's separated himself from his business but its turning out he's a pathological liar and there hasn't been any papers filed to make a separation official so in effect the president of the united states is profiting from business dealings with foreign governments.

I think I posted it earlier here, but the fact he is refusing to hand in his tax return imo shows he has something to hide.

It would show for example how much of his debt is to foreign parties, which might imply that they have leverage over him.

Hail To The Chief (Read Mod Warning In OP)

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