US vs UK pint glasses in pubs

feylya · 13-01-2017 2:03am #1

I had an interesting situation in a pub this evening. Ordered a pint of an American IPA, which normally comes in branded glasses. Get given an Irish brewery pint glass, with beer shy of the top by ~12mm. Says the barman "We've run out of the normal glasses so I've been generous and given you more". By my count, they've been serving pints nearly 100ml shy of what a normal pint is over here. By my reckoning, that's misleading the consumer about quantities they're serving. Am I wrong?

I wouldn't mind, but the barman thought he was doing me a favour :rolleyes:

Charles Babbage · 13-01-2017 2:16am

feylya wrote: »

I had an interesting situation in a pub this evening. Ordered a pint of an American IPA, which normally comes in branded glasses. Get given an Irish brewery pint glass, with beer shy of the top by ~12mm. Says the barman "We've run out of the normal glasses so I've been generous and given you more". By my count, they've been serving pints nearly 100ml shy of what a normal pint is over here. By my reckoning, that's misleading the consumer about quantities they're serving. Am I wrong?

I wouldn't mind, but the barman thought he was doing me a favour :rolleyes:

If you order a pint in Ireland then you should get an Irish pint, otherwise it is fraud.

Passenger · 13-01-2017 2:22am

feylya wrote: »

By my reckoning, that's misleading the consumer about quantities they're serving. Am I wrong?

I wouldn't mind, but the barman thought he was doing me a favour :rolleyes:

What did the barman say when you told him all this?

ShooterSF · 13-01-2017 3:29am

If the glass is not CE stamped with the word Pint my understanding is that pubs can't serve "pints" in it in Ireland. I doubt though that the IPA seller is exporting US pint glasses to Ireland. Likely their glass is pint sized too and the bartender f'd up. To be honest any Irish person I've ever handed a 16oz (US pint) glass to has been very quick to realise it's not a "real" pint. Did you not cop a smaller glass?

Atlantic Dawn · 13-01-2017 3:41am

Sounds like a place to out and out avoid.

BeerNut · 13-01-2017 10:19am

feylya wrote: »

By my reckoning, that's misleading the consumer about quantities they're serving. Am I wrong?

If they're advertising it as being served and charged by the pint, and then not serving people a pint, then it's illegal. Short measure, illegal as it is, is extremely common in Dublin, especially in the craft beer sector. But people don't seem to really mind, don't complain (except to the Internet, where it makes no difference to anything), so the pubs keep doing it.

ShooterSF wrote: »

If the glass is not CE stamped with the word Pint my understanding is that pubs can't serve "pints" in it in Ireland.

That's not true. The CE stamp just guarantees that the glass holds a pint. Bars can still serve pints in non-stamped glasses as long as customers being charged for a pint get a pint. The CE stamp simply makes it easier to settle the argument if there's a dispute.

irish_goat · 13-01-2017 10:25am

ShooterSF wrote: »

I doubt though that the IPA seller is exporting US pint glasses to Ireland.

Founders do and Sam Adams used to as well.

I could probably guess what bar the OP is talking about...

BlinkingLights · 13-01-2017 10:28am

We actually got pints recognised by the European Union as a traditional measure. France has similar for magnums and wine bottles and so on.

Despite the Brexiteers notions, the EU was actually very open to the idea of protecting drinkers from being short served and protection of the classic pint glass

BeerNut · 13-01-2017 10:31am

irish_goat wrote: »

Founders do and Sam Adams used to as well.

You do also get identical looking American-branded real-pint glasses made for the UK where selling draught beer by the US pint is illegal. I've seen Sierra Nevada and Samuel Adams ones like this.

feylya · 13-01-2017 11:29am

Passenger wrote: »

What did the barman say when you told him all this?

"its an American beer. It comes in an American pint"...

feylya · 13-01-2017 11:31am

BeerNut wrote: »

But people don't seem to really mind, don't complain (except to the Internet, where it makes no difference to anything), so the pubs keep doing it.

So, where do you suggest complaining to?

biko · 13-01-2017 11:36am

feylya wrote: »

"its an American beer. It comes in an American pint"...

This is bullcrap.
But if they have branded glasses then that is probably what the barkeep was told himself.

What beer was this? Pub?

LeinsterDub · 13-01-2017 11:37am

I complained to the manager before and suggested I would report them to the CCPC. Next time I was in their was a sign saying the "Pints" of x brands where American "Pints"

feylya · 13-01-2017 11:43am

biko wrote: »

This is bullcrap.
But if they have branded glasses then that is probably what the barkeep was told himself.

What beer was this? Pub?

It seems to be a theme in there. It was mentioned to me previously, but I didn't even cop it at the time (I was very hungover).

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I complained to the manager before and suggested I would report them to the CCPC. Next time I was in their was a sign saying the "Pints" of x brands where American "Pints"

I think the barman last night was the owner...

biko · 13-01-2017 11:50am

Next time pay with dollars.
If you don't get a full pint you don't have to pay full price.

BeerNut · 13-01-2017 3:06pm

feylya wrote: »

So, where do you suggest complaining to?

I'm still not sure exactly what your complaint is. You asked for a pint and the pub told you that the beer in question is not served in pints but in 473ml measures. You got given a measure and you don't seem to be disputing that it was at least 473ml. It would be nice if the pub advertised that this particular beer comes in this particular measure, but as far as I know Ireland's weak-ass consumer laws around price advertising in pubs do not require them to do so.

If, however, the pub has a sign somewhere saying that a pint of this beer costs what you paid, then they're serving measures shorter than advertised, which is against the law. Here's the CCPC form.

irish_goat · 13-01-2017 3:09pm

BeerNut wrote: »

I'm still not sure exactly what your complaint is. You asked for a pint and the pub told you that the beer in question is not served in pints but in 473ml measures. You got given a measure and you don't seem to be disputing that it was at least 473ml. It would be nice if the pub advertised that this particular beer comes in this particular measure, but as far as I know Ireland's weak-ass consumer laws around price advertising in pubs do not require them to do so.

If, however, the pub has a sign somewhere saying that a pint of this beer costs what you paid, then they're serving measures shorter than advertised, which is against the law. Here's the CCPC form.

It sounds like they only informed of the 473ml measure after it was poured though. I would bet if you go in and ask for a "pint" they won't inform you that it's an American pint before pouring it.

DelmarODonnell · 13-01-2017 3:12pm

Quite a lot of places seem to operate like this. It has become natural for me just to avoid ordering a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale/Founders All Day which are the usual culprits imo

Mycroft H · 13-01-2017 3:15pm

It's the NSAI you should be complaining too; they deal in weights and measures.

BeerNut · 13-01-2017 3:15pm

irish_goat wrote: »

It sounds like they only informed of the 473ml measure after it was poured though. I would bet if you go in and ask for a "pint" they won't inform you that it's an American pint before pouring it.

And they're under no obligation to do so. It's honkingly stupid, but it's the law.

But signs saying "American pints" or "16oz pours" are illegal. If the word pint is used it must be 568ml. The only other legal way to express that measure is 473ml, or 0.473L, or the like.

A pub near me used to have 16oz pours on the menu for some beers. I pointed out to them that they had to use metric for non-pints and they changed it on the next print run.

BeerNut · 13-01-2017 3:18pm

Mycroft H wrote: »

It's the NSAI you should be complaining too; they deal in weights and measures.

Yes, they seem to do this as well.

Here's their complaints form.

BrokenArrows · 13-01-2017 3:47pm

The American Pint is different to the English/Irish print (Imperial Pint)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pint_glass

A pint glass is a form of drinkware made to hold either a British ("imperial") pint of 20 imperial fluid ounces (568 ml) or an American pint of 16 US fluid ounces (473 ml). These glasses are typically used to serve beer, and also often for cider.

However if i was in an Irish or English bar and asked for a pint, and they gave me a 473ml measure, then yes, thats incorrect. If you were in america then its correct.
Probably doesnt make a difference either way. The drink is served the way it is served. If you dont like it then dont buy it. But under the same conditions if you paid for it and then realised the problem i would expect the pub to refund you if you wanted a refund.

As someone already said their pub put up a sign indicating the difference, i think thats an acceptable solution.

BeerNut · 13-01-2017 3:54pm

BrokenArrows wrote: »

The American Pint is different to the English/Irish print (Imperial Pint)

It is, but there's also a European law which states all measures for goods sold must be metric, with a handful of exceptions. "Pint" is one exception, but the law also says a pint is only ever 568ml in jurisdictions where it applies. An "American pint" has the same status as a "wizard's cupful" or "half a dragon's thimble": the consumer is not expected to understand how much that is, and is being misled if it's not expressed in metric units.

DelmarODonnell · 13-01-2017 3:56pm

I suppose that is the point. I've a good idea of the pub he was in.

They advertise below the tap what %, size and price the drink is. Some will be 2/3, some pint, and they are actually very rigid as to what they will serve you it in - although the Barman will often do along the lines of what Feylya says "yeah it's only 2/3 serving but sure g'wan then, I'll give you a pint of it" and won't charge extra.

He should be advertising the servings better but I don't think there is the element of trying to squeeze you for the extra bitta money.

feylya · 13-01-2017 6:15pm

BeerNut wrote: »

I'm still not sure exactly what your complaint is. You asked for a pint and the pub told you that the beer in question is not served in pints but in 473ml measures. You got given a measure and you don't seem to be disputing that it was at least 473ml. It would be nice if the pub advertised that this particular beer comes in this particular measure, but as far as I know Ireland's weak-ass consumer laws around price advertising in pubs do not require them to do so.

If, however, the pub has a sign somewhere saying that a pint of this beer costs what you paid, then they're serving measures shorter than advertised, which is against the law. Here's the CCPC form.

I asked for a pint of beer. I got handed an American pint glass. I asked for another pint of the same beer. I got an Irish pint glass, missing the top bit of beer. The point of this is, they are selling pints of beer which are not pint.

BeerNut · 13-01-2017 7:33pm

What you asked for is not relevant, the law doesn't cover that. If you'd asked for a pint of wine and been given a 250ml glass that wouldn't be illegal either. If by "selling" you mean "advertising for sale in writing", then there's an issue. Otherwise your expectation of 568ml of beer is your mistake, not theirs.

In short, did they promise you a pint or did you just ask for and subsequently expect one?

RasTa · 13-01-2017 8:04pm

What pub was this?

JeffKenna · 13-01-2017 8:07pm

This sort of stuff makes my blood boil.

listermint · 13-01-2017 8:11pm

So basically the op is complaining about his Ipa that usually comes in a branded glass that is set out for the measurement that beer is sold in.

And became he didn't get his branded glass he was given a different larger glass.

Op bring your glass back up to the bar if this makes you pissed so much.

I suspect you know that the beer is more expensive and is sold in that qty but you are just being fenickity.

RasTa · 13-01-2017 8:17pm

listermint wrote: »

So basically the op is complaining about his Ipa that usually comes in a branded glass that is set out for the measurement that beer is sold in.

And became he didn't get his branded glass he was given a different larger glass.

Op bring your glass back up to the bar if this makes you pissed so much.

I suspect you know that the beer is more expensive and is sold in that qty but you are just being fenickity.

Wrong.

I guess this was a Lagunitas

ShooterSF · 13-01-2017 8:39pm

BeerNut wrote: »

If they're advertising it as being served and charged by the pint, and then not serving people a pint, then it's illegal. Short measure, illegal as it is, is extremely common in Dublin, especially in the craft beer sector. But people don't seem to really mind, don't complain (except to the Internet, where it makes no difference to anything), so the pubs keep doing it.

That's not true. The CE stamp just guarantees that the glass holds a pint. Bars can still serve pints in non-stamped glasses as long as customers being charged for a pint get a pint. The CE stamp simply makes it easier to settle the argument if there's a dispute.

Interesting. Our bar carries other "pint" size glasses but we use them for cider bottles etc. We never use anything not stamped as a pint. Always thought it was law.

BeerNut wrote: »

What you asked for is not relevant, the law doesn't cover that. If you'd asked for a pint of wine and been given a 250ml glass that wouldn't be illegal either. If by "selling" you mean "advertising for sale in writing", then there's an issue. Otherwise your expectation of 568ml of beer is your mistake, not theirs.

In short, did they promise you a pint or did you just ask for and subsequently expect one?

Surely it's on the proprietor, or at least in their best interest, to inform a customer if they can't sell that quantity and what quantites they do sell. I know personally I'd feel the need to explain before hand if I was serving the OP that they weren't getting a pint. If I asked for a pint and got handed a 16oz glass I'd feel a bit peeved. Not something you want your patrons feeling. However give people an informed decision to make and its on them.

US vs UK pint glasses in pubs

Comments