Recruitment for British army soars in Republic of Ireland

FrancieBrady · 11-01-2017 07:25PM

Muckie wrote: »

My great grand father fought and died at the Somme in WW1.

My Dad and Uncle served in the British Army in the 60's, left before the troubles.

They learned a trade and skills, became truck mechanics.

Older brother signed up(he always wanted an adventure) and served with them for a few years, just before the troubles ended.

Unfortunately he was involved in some engagements in the North.

Eventually he was discharged, have to say it messed up his head, glad he's still alive, but has caused issues within the family over the years.

Have a Son myself, have no problem telling him about the family history, but wouldnt recommend it.

Did the fact he served in NI cause him later problems?

I think this would happen most normal people if they were ordered to take action against their own by a foreign power.
Even if not actively engaged against your own there must be some sort of deep down guilt of being in an army that is engaged on your home island.
It affected a lot of Irish soldiers in WW1 and the Germans were known to taunt them about what the British army was doing back in Dublin in 1916.

maryishere · 11-01-2017 07:40PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Even if not actively engaged against your own there must be some sort of deep down guilt of being in an army that is engaged on your home island.

The Irish army was engaged against the PIRA and (like the Gardai) suffered casulties at the hands of the PIRA. You talking about that army?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think this would happen most normal people if they were ordered to take action against their own by a foreign power.

The armies on this island were paid for and controlled and answerable to democratically elected governments. Most normal people respected the law.

Jayop · 11-01-2017 07:45PM

maryishere wrote: »

were paid for and controlled and answerable to democratically elected governments. Most normal people respected the law.

It's a pity the army didn't respect the law and it's a pity the people that controlled the army didn't respect the law.

BalcombeSt4 · 11-01-2017 07:45PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

No they don't. The DUP believe in democracy for starters, the DUP loves the UK, the DUP is the biggest party in NI, the DUP has a mandate. I don't vote DUP but I call bullsh*t on this post, sorry.

They believe in it when it suits them, they were the biggest voice voice against the GFA even tho the majority of people in the North voted for it. And theres other examples.

BalcombeSt4 · 11-01-2017 07:48PM

maryishere wrote: »

The Irish army was engaged against the PIRA and (like the Gardai) suffered casulties at the hands of the PIRA. You talking about that army?

The armies on this island were paid for and controlled and answerable to democratically elected governments. Most normal people respected the law.

They were also engaged against Loyalists & the British Army.

The armies on these islands were responsible for the deaths of nearly 200 civilians directly & alot more indirectly.
And most people didn't respect the laws being imposed on them, that was the problem in the first place.

FrancieBrady · 11-01-2017 07:56PM

maryishere wrote: »

The Irish army was engaged against the PIRA and (like the Gardai) suffered casulties at the hands of the PIRA. You talking about that army?

The British army brutalised many civilians, killed women and children (not members of PIRA as far as we know!) all over the statelet.
They are also implicated in being involved in atrocities south of the border.

The armies on this island were paid for and controlled and answerable to democratically elected governments. Most normal people respected the law.

Those democratically elected governments have still held nobody in the army accountable for what happened on Bloody Sunday when they shot dead 13 people on the streets of Derry. (none of them where in the IRA either.) They have also many other cases to answer for.

It's a legitimate question to ask if an Irish mercenary would feel guilt being in a foreign army engaged in that.

A Little Pony · 11-01-2017 08:07PM

Hannibal had mercenaries in his army fighting the Roman Republic. I don't see the difference if it helps people get ahead and make money.

FrancieBrady · 11-01-2017 08:14PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Hannibal had mercenaries in his army fighting the Roman Republic. I don't see the difference if it helps people get ahead and make money.

I would just like to tease out how these people cope with their employer using them to attack their own people.
Peculiar career choice imo.

A Little Pony · 11-01-2017 08:23PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Hannibal had mercenaries in his army fighting the Roman Republic. I don't see the difference if it helps people get ahead and make money.

I would just like to tease out how these people cope with their employer using them to attack their own people.
Peculiar career choice imo.

Irish people joining the British Army in 2017 is attacking the Irish people?

rockatansky · 11-01-2017 08:24PM

I don't really see the big deal about this to be honest. People are free to do as the please.

If it was a family member of mine who joined I'd probably never speak to them again, but that's my problem not theirs.

FrancieBrady · 11-01-2017 08:28PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Irish people joining the British Army in 2017 is attacking the Irish people?

Question isn't specific to Irish people.
I would be interested in back stories though. And I believe there could be a time when the BA are deployed again on the streets of NI and so do you.

Fratton Fred · 11-01-2017 09:12PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And I believe there could be a time when the BA are deployed again on the streets of NI and so do you.

Why?

FrancieBrady · 11-01-2017 09:16PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Why?

Ask A Little Pony about what he thinks will happen if any progress is made on a UI. 'Something something Armageddon' he was talking about.

Jayop · 11-01-2017 09:47PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ask A Little Pony about what he thinks will happen if any progress is made on a UI. 'Something something Armageddon' he was talking about.

The democrats respect the will of the people unless.......

Fratton Fred · 11-01-2017 10:49PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ask A Little Pony about what he thinks will happen if any progress is made on a UI. 'Something something Armageddon' he was talking about.

if a united Ireland happens and the Loyalists kick off, won't that be the problem of the Irish army?

Jayop · 11-01-2017 10:56PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

if a united Ireland happens and the Loyalists kick off, won't that be the problem of the Irish army?

Post Reunion. Pre-reunion it would be the Brits.

FrancieBrady · 11-01-2017 11:01PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

if a united Ireland happens and the Loyalists kick off, won't that be the problem of the Irish army?

Not necessarily in ALP's scenario.

maryishere · 11-01-2017 11:06PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

. And I believe there could be a time when the BA are deployed again on the streets of NI and so do you.

We all remember the time the BA was deployed against both Republican and Loyalist paramilitaries, and it assisted the police in arresting, convicting and jailing both sides.

The Irish army was also deployed against the PIRA, INLA etc, in which people were killed.

Things would have been worse it it were not for both armies.

FrancieBrady · 11-01-2017 11:18PM

maryishere wrote: »

We all remember the time the BA was deployed against both Republican and Loyalist paramilitaries, and it assisted the police in arresting, convicting and jailing both sides.

The Irish army was also deployed against the PIRA, INLA etc, in which people were killed.

Things would have been worse it it were not for both armies.

The BA took a side. They killed many more innocent catholic people not discriminating what their political allegiances were.
I asked how an Irish person serving in that army would cope with that.

maryishere · 12-01-2017 07:53PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The BA took a side.

They were on the side of law and order. The vast majority of the 300,000 who served there did not break the law or kill others - otherwise the death toll would have been much higher. Far more British soldiers lost their lives in the troubles than there were people killed by the British Army. There is never any sectarian tension in the B.Army because that would not be permitted, and many of the officers in the Irish regiments of the ba are catholics.

FrancieBrady · 12-01-2017 08:02PM

maryishere wrote: »

They were on the side of law and order. The vast majority of the 300,000 who served there did not break the law or kill others - otherwise the death toll would have been much higher. Far more British soldiers lost their lives in the troubles than there were people killed by the British Army. There is never any sectarian tension in the B.Army because that would not be permitted, and many of the officers in the Irish regiments of the ba are catholics.

The topic is not about that. I believe the British army were turned on one side of the community, (the number of indiscriminate killings of civillians back that up).

I asked a question based on that specific fact and the thread topic, not on your view of the troubles. If you can't answer it, that is fine.

maryishere · 12-01-2017 08:22PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The topic is not about that..

Then why did you write the following:

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The BA took a side. They killed many more innocent catholic people not discriminating what their political allegiances were.
I asked how an Irish person serving in that army would cope with that.

My post was in reply to that.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I believe the British army were turned on one side of the community, .

The PIRA and other extremist Republicans pursued an "armed struggle" campaign which they said at the time was to get "Brits out peace in". Shooting off duty and retired members of the security forces was part of the campaign, as well as bombing shops, people in restaurants etc. The BA helped defeat the terrorists on both sides of the community.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I asked a question based on that specific fact

The number of people killed by the British Army in N. Ireland over the decades is relatively small, far less than the number of B. Army soldiers killed. Considering the numerous attacks there was on the B. Army, the countless riots, intimidation, etc, the numbers of innocent civilians killed does not point to widespead abuse of power by the over 300,000 soldiers who served there.

FrancieBrady · 12-01-2017 08:30PM

maryishere wrote: »

Then why did you write the following:

My post was in reply to that.

The PIRA and other extremist Republicans pursued an "armed struggle" campaign which they said at the time was to get "Brits out peace in". Shooting off duty and retired members of the security forces was part of the campaign, as well as bombing shops, people in restaurants etc. The BA helped defeat the terrorists on both sides of the community.

The number of people killed by the British Army in N. Ireland over the decades is relatively small, far less than the number of B. Army soldiers killed. Considering the numerous attacks there was on the B. Army, the countless riots, intimidation, etc, the numbers of innocent civilians killed does not point to widespead abuse of power by the over 300,000 soldiers who served there.

I am not here to argue all that with you.

The BA killed countless civilians=fact and intimidated, hurt and discriminated against countless other = also facts

I asked how an Irish soldier would feel if he was part of a foreign army that carried out those acts.

If you can't answer that stop going off topic.

maryishere · 12-01-2017 08:46PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The BA killed countless civilians=fact

Not so. The number was counted.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I asked how an Irish soldier would feel if he was part of a foreign army that carried out those acts.

When a terrorist organisation like the PIRA / INLA conducts an armed struggle over several decades killed a thousand British soldiers as well as many civilians, then its not surprising if a much smaller number of people are killed by the British army. To answer your question, I would say none of the many people joining the B. Army nowadays would worry too much about mistakes made by a tiny percentage of the 300,000 troops who served in N. Ireland during the troubles. Most of the worst of the troubles happened before todays new BA applicants were even born.

FrancieBrady · 12-01-2017 08:59PM

maryishere wrote: »

Not so. The number was counted.

We will only have a count when all inquiries complete or after a Truth process. A number of questions are still out there, eg Their involvement in bombing Dublin and Monaghan.

r To answer your question, I would say none of the many people joining the B. Army nowadays would worry too much about mistakes made by a tiny percentage of the 300,000 troops who served in N. Ireland during the troubles. Most of the worst of the troubles happened before todays new BA applicants were even born.

More interested in those with experience rather than excuses for belligerent and frankly, murderous behaviour.
We had a poster here who said his brother didn't fare well after serving in NI for the BA and I know somebody myself who says it was the biggest mistake they ever made.

maryishere · 12-01-2017 09:11PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I know somebody myself who says it was the biggest mistake they ever made.

I am not surprised he said that to you, given you condoned the murder of a thousand of his comrades ( some of whom were retired or ex-members or off duty) , and many thousands more who were injured, lost limbs etc. I am sure he will feel better if he realises most people are thankful for their help in defeating the terrorists on both sides, and returning N.Ireland to peace / seeing the terrorists guns and semtex put beyond use.

FrancieBrady · 12-01-2017 09:18PM

maryishere wrote: »

I am not surprised he said that to you, given you condoned the murder of a thousand of his comrades, and many thousands more who were injured, lost limbs etc. I am sure he will feel better if he realises most people are thankful for their help in defeating the terrorists on both sides, and returning N.Ireland to peace / seeing the terrorists guns and semtex put beyond use.

He now works with some of the victim families of the Dublin Monaghan bombing. That event was pivotal for his exit.
I am interested in the context of this thread topic in how other Irish soldiers justify their membership. Does pay and opportunity trump conscience for instance.
Not really interested in the opinion of somebody who would excuse the activity of a force which was supposed to be impartial.

maryishere · 12-01-2017 09:56PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I am interested in the context of this thread topic in how other Irish soldiers justify their membership.

Being a soldier in an EU or G7 country is just a job, a sort of public service job to some people I guess - some would I guess like the outdoors, adventure, training etc. I guess a there are still not a lot of opportunities for some people here in Ireland. According to an experienced Irish soldier (in the B.Army ) on the radio recently, he said there was never any discrimination or sectarianism in the B.A., and they were a great bunch of lads.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Does pay and opportunity trump conscience for instance.

I would imagine the conscience of the average British Army soldier is clearer than the people (or their supporters) who planted the Enniskillen, Le Mons, Warrington, Belfast etc bombs.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not really interested in the opinion of somebody who would excuse the activity of a force which was supposed to be impartial.

I would expect all members to obey the law, and believe most do and did. Unlike you, I do not excuse people who resorted to violence / broke the law, and I would condemn them.

12-01-2017 11:16PM

maryishere wrote: »

I am not surprised he said that to you, given you condoned the murder of a thousand of his comrades ( some of whom were retired or ex-members or off duty) , and many thousands more who were injured, lost limbs etc. I am sure he will feel better if he realises most people are thankful for their help in defeating the terrorists on both sides, and returning N.Ireland to peace / seeing the terrorists guns and semtex put beyond use.

Christ, either you do PR for the BA or suffer from rampant Stockholm syndrome....

OxfordColours · 12-01-2017 11:22PM

Christ, either you do PR for the BA or suffer from rampant Stockholm syndrome....

Are you saying you are some sort of truly impartial man with the abilty to take in the history without any sort of bias?

Recruitment for British army soars in Republic of Ireland

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