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What exactly is free speech?

  • 11-01-2017 12:03AM
    #1
    Goya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 464 ✭✭


    It's referred to quite a lot but I don't fully know what it means.

    I'm all for any opinion being aired, no matter how distasteful I find it, because not allowing people to express their view makes them even more resentful and drives those views "underground". Debate is healthier. I think people should toughen up over certain views too (e.g. that Pell guy). Hear them out, then counter-debate.

    But nobody can, or ever could, say anything they like, with as little evidence as they want, wherever they wish, in whatever manner they like. The First Amendment has all these conditions attached to it - does that not render it meaningless?

    Is "free speech" even a correct term? Free does not mean limited. Or is it just a handy but inaccurate term?


«1

Comments

  • #2
    PirateShampoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,404 ✭✭✭PirateShampoo


    A myth.


  • #3
    Ted111
    Closed Accounts Posts: 990 ✭✭✭Ted111


    It's all about the terminology.

    What you describe as 'free speech' that doesn't exist is normally called 'absolute free speech'
    You are right it doesn't apply and most people don't believe it should. What people refer to as "free speech" (as apposed to "absolute free speech") is limited free speech and has many curtailments on it.


  • #4
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    Flimpson wrote: »
    It's referred to quite a lot but I don't fully know what it means.

    I'm all for any opinion being aired, no matter how distasteful I find it, because not allowing people to express their view makes them even more resentful and drives those views "underground". Debate is healthier. I think people should toughen up over certain views too (e.g. that Pell guy). Hear them out, then counter-debate.

    But nobody can, or ever could, say anything they like, with as little evidence as they want, wherever they wish, in whatever manner they like. The First Amendment has all these conditions attached to it - does that not render it meaningless?

    Is "free speech" even a correct term? Free does not mean limited. Or is it just a handy but inaccurate term?

    Except for cases of libel and defamation people have the right to say something without evidence.


  • #5
    biko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,060 ✭✭✭✭biko


    It means that people that you don't agree with still can say what is on their mind, without fear of persecution from you.


  • #6
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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  • #7
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    biko wrote: »
    It means that people that you don't agree with still can say what is on their mind, without fear of persecution from you.

    Can I quote you on that ;)


  • #8
    fh041205
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 992 ✭✭✭fh041205


    The Westboro Baptist Church seem to think that free speech allows them the right to protest at funerals of people they don't like for whatever random reason.

    I cannot fathom how anyone would believe they have a right to do that.


  • #9
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    I don't believe in free speech, you can't have a functioning society where every yahoo can spout whatever bile or vitriol they want without reprisal.

    I believe in the right to disagree, if you can make your case without being a cut about it, you should absolutely be able to without fear of retribution


  • #10
    Goya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 464 ✭✭Goya


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.
    So free speech isn't literally free.

    It's just a bit confusing that it is called free speech when that description is not accurate.


  • #11
    Turtyturd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,404 ✭✭✭✭Turtyturd


    For most people it means the right to spout on about their viewpoint uncontested while refusing that courtesy to those with opposing viewpoints.


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  • #12
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Isnt one of the legal tests on the limits of free speech "crying fire in a crowded theatre".

    In other words speech that causes immediate harm can be prohibited.


  • #13
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    Isnt one of the legal tests on the limits of free speech "crying fire in a crowded theatre".

    In other words speech that causes immediate harm can be prohibited.

    The case law there is complicated.


  • #14
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    Right now in Ireland free speech means you can say whatever you like as long as you are promoting left wing liberal ideas.
    If your not then your guilty of hate speech
    But it's a world wide thing and it's on the wane now so f**k it


  • #15
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    I don't believe in free speech, you can't have a functioning society where every yahoo can spout whatever bile or vitriol they want without reprisal.

    I believe in the right to disagree, if you can make your case without being a cut about it, you should absolutely be able to without fear of retribution

    What though, if society think your speech is bile and you a yahoo?


  • #16
    Mutant z
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Mutant z


    The right to free speech is essentially, in any functional democracy, which without it we have nothing.


  • #17
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #18
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    What though, if society think your speech is bile and you a yahoo?

    Society is a lot more savvy than most people give it credit, in fairness. The yahoos are only prominent due to their vigour


  • #19
    KKkitty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭KKkitty


    The voice inside your head that agrees with everything you're about to say before you actually verbalise them to another human being.


  • #20
    TheQuietFella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    Flimpson wrote: »
    It's referred to quite a lot but I don't fully know what it means.

    I'm all for any opinion being aired, no matter how distasteful I find it, because not allowing people to express their view makes them even more resentful and drives those views "underground". Debate is healthier. I think people should toughen up over certain views too (e.g. that Pell guy). Hear them out, then counter-debate.

    But nobody can, or ever could, say anything they like, with as little evidence as they want, wherever they wish, in whatever manner they like. The First Amendment has all these conditions attached to it - does that not render it meaningless?

    Is "free speech" even a correct term? Free does not mean limited. Or is it just a handy but inaccurate term?

    Why do people ask such stupid bloody questions???


  • #21
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    The case law there is complicated.

    Absolutely.

    Although over time we've evolved a pretty good idea of what it means.


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  • #22
    Goya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 464 ✭✭Goya


    TheQuietFella wrote: »
    Why do people ask such stupid bloody questions???
    Develop your debating skills.


  • #23
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Yes. And in the case of the US Constitution the first amendment talks about the "freedom of speech" which is a more descriptive way of thinking about it.


  • #24
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #25
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    And calls for murder, mass genocide etc.

    Thats why I can never understand how people argue there should be a right to absolute freedom of speech. There shouldnt because that means openly advocating mass genocide would be legally fine to do.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #26
    KKkitty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭KKkitty


    Free speech is a fallacy. You can have all the opinions in the world about anything or anyone but there will always be someone who tells you it's not the right thing to say.


  • #27
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    KKkitty wrote: »
    Free speech is a fallacy. You can have all the opinions in the world about anything or anyone but there will always be someone who tells you it's not the right thing to say.

    Telling you its not the right thing to say is just speech disagreeing with you. That is not an infringement on your right to freedom of speech.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #28
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #29
    Goya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 464 ✭✭Goya


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.
    Yep, so not free. :)

    I'm not trying to be smart - just disagreeing with the term. And not disagreeing with the concept.


  • #30
    Ken.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    Mod-This topic deserves proper debate so I've moved it to the humanities forum. Please read the local charter before posting.


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  • #31
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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