What exactly is free speech?

Goya

It's referred to quite a lot but I don't fully know what it means.

I'm all for any opinion being aired, no matter how distasteful I find it, because not allowing people to express their view makes them even more resentful and drives those views "underground". Debate is healthier. I think people should toughen up over certain views too (e.g. that Pell guy). Hear them out, then counter-debate.

But nobody can, or ever could, say anything they like, with as little evidence as they want, wherever they wish, in whatever manner they like. The First Amendment has all these conditions attached to it - does that not render it meaningless?

Is "free speech" even a correct term? Free does not mean limited. Or is it just a handy but inaccurate term?

PirateShampoo

A myth.

Ted111

It's all about the terminology.

What you describe as 'free speech' that doesn't exist is normally called 'absolute free speech'
You are right it doesn't apply and most people don't believe it should. What people refer to as "free speech" (as apposed to "absolute free speech") is limited free speech and has many curtailments on it.

Yourself isit

Flimpson wrote: »

It's referred to quite a lot but I don't fully know what it means.

I'm all for any opinion being aired, no matter how distasteful I find it, because not allowing people to express their view makes them even more resentful and drives those views "underground". Debate is healthier. I think people should toughen up over certain views too (e.g. that Pell guy). Hear them out, then counter-debate.

But nobody can, or ever could, say anything they like, with as little evidence as they want, wherever they wish, in whatever manner they like. The First Amendment has all these conditions attached to it - does that not render it meaningless?

Is "free speech" even a correct term? Free does not mean limited. Or is it just a handy but inaccurate term?

Except for cases of libel and defamation people have the right to say something without evidence.

biko

It means that people that you don't agree with still can say what is on their mind, without fear of persecution from you.

Permabear

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Going Forward

biko wrote: »

It means that people that you don't agree with still can say what is on their mind, without fear of persecution from you.

Can I quote you on that

fh041205

The Westboro Baptist Church seem to think that free speech allows them the right to protest at funerals of people they don't like for whatever random reason.

I cannot fathom how anyone would believe they have a right to do that.

The Backwards Man

I don't believe in free speech, you can't have a functioning society where every yahoo can spout whatever bile or vitriol they want without reprisal.

I believe in the right to disagree, if you can make your case without being a cut about it, you should absolutely be able to without fear of retribution

Goya

Permabear wrote: »

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So free speech isn't literally free.

It's just a bit confusing that it is called free speech when that description is not accurate.

Turtyturd

For most people it means the right to spout on about their viewpoint uncontested while refusing that courtesy to those with opposing viewpoints.

InTheTrees

Isnt one of the legal tests on the limits of free speech "crying fire in a crowded theatre".

In other words speech that causes immediate harm can be prohibited.

Yourself isit

InTheTrees wrote: »

Isnt one of the legal tests on the limits of free speech "crying fire in a crowded theatre".

In other words speech that causes immediate harm can be prohibited.

The case law there is complicated.

infogiver

Right now in Ireland free speech means you can say whatever you like as long as you are promoting left wing liberal ideas.
If your not then your guilty of hate speech
But it's a world wide thing and it's on the wane now so f**k it

Yourself isit

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I don't believe in free speech, you can't have a functioning society where every yahoo can spout whatever bile or vitriol they want without reprisal.

I believe in the right to disagree, if you can make your case without being a cut about it, you should absolutely be able to without fear of retribution

What though, if society think your speech is bile and you a yahoo?

Mutant z

The right to free speech is essentially, in any functional democracy, which without it we have nothing.

Permabear

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The Backwards Man

Yourself isit wrote: »

What though, if society think your speech is bile and you a yahoo?

Society is a lot more savvy than most people give it credit, in fairness. The yahoos are only prominent due to their vigour

KKkitty

The voice inside your head that agrees with everything you're about to say before you actually verbalise them to another human being.

TheQuietFella

Flimpson wrote: »

It's referred to quite a lot but I don't fully know what it means.

I'm all for any opinion being aired, no matter how distasteful I find it, because not allowing people to express their view makes them even more resentful and drives those views "underground". Debate is healthier. I think people should toughen up over certain views too (e.g. that Pell guy). Hear them out, then counter-debate.

But nobody can, or ever could, say anything they like, with as little evidence as they want, wherever they wish, in whatever manner they like. The First Amendment has all these conditions attached to it - does that not render it meaningless?

Is "free speech" even a correct term? Free does not mean limited. Or is it just a handy but inaccurate term?

Why do people ask such stupid bloody questions???

InTheTrees

Yourself isit wrote: »

The case law there is complicated.

Absolutely.

Although over time we've evolved a pretty good idea of what it means.

Goya

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Why do people ask such stupid bloody questions???

Develop your debating skills.

InTheTrees

Permabear wrote: »

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Yes. And in the case of the US Constitution the first amendment talks about the "freedom of speech" which is a more descriptive way of thinking about it.

Permabear

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Annasopra

Permabear wrote: »

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And calls for murder, mass genocide etc.

Thats why I can never understand how people argue there should be a right to absolute freedom of speech. There shouldnt because that means openly advocating mass genocide would be legally fine to do.

KKkitty

Free speech is a fallacy. You can have all the opinions in the world about anything or anyone but there will always be someone who tells you it's not the right thing to say.

Annasopra

KKkitty wrote: »

Free speech is a fallacy. You can have all the opinions in the world about anything or anyone but there will always be someone who tells you it's not the right thing to say.

Telling you its not the right thing to say is just speech disagreeing with you. That is not an infringement on your right to freedom of speech.

Permabear

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Goya

Permabear wrote: »

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Yep, so not free.

I'm not trying to be smart - just disagreeing with the term. And not disagreeing with the concept.

Ken.

Mod-This topic deserves proper debate so I've moved it to the humanities forum. Please read the local charter before posting.

Permabear

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TheQuietFella

Flimpson wrote: »

Develop your debating skills.

So you see OP, I exercised my right to 'free speech' and this is what I got!

You just get constantly knocked and put upon!!! I'm bruised but unbroken!

Strum

I have a very simple question. Why is any mention of Islam not allowed on these forums? I notice that from 2015 the Islam forum is closed. 39 pages of topics and thousands of posts, CLOSED.
Have Boards.ie been intimidated by the Muslim community? Please don't get me wrong now, I'm not a Muslim hater, I have two Muslim friends who are the nicest people you could meet but why the closed forum?
What about "free speech"?

Nervous Wreck

Strum wrote: »

I have a very simple question. Why is any mention of Islam not allowed on these forums? I notice that from 2015 the Islam forum is closed. 39 pages of topics and thousands of posts, CLOSED.
Have Boards.ie been intimidated by the Muslim community? Please don't get me wrong now, I'm not a Muslim hater, I have two Muslim friends who are the nicest people you could meet but why the closed forum?
What about "free speech"?

Boards is a privately owned and operated forum; free speech is not applicable here. For the rest of your questions, I have no idea.

Strum

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Boards is a privately owned and operated forum; free speech is not applicable here. For the rest of your questions, I have no idea.

Uh huh, so the forums are biased depending on the Administrators? Well that kinda sucks for a public chat forum.

infogiver

Strum wrote: »

Uh huh, so the forums are biased depending on the Administrators? Well that kinda sucks for a public chat forum.

It's not public, it's private.
You don't have a "right" to post any of your opinions at all.
The owners of this site have appointed moderators who set the rules of the site and who will discipline you if you break any of the rules.
Your civil rights, human rights etc are not applicable here.

Strum

infogiver wrote: »

It's not public, it's private.
You don't have a "right" to post any of your opinions at all.
The owners of this site have appointed moderators who set the rules of the site and who will discipline you if you break any of the rules.
Your civil rights, human rights etc are not applicable here.

Wow I just quoted a post in the board rules topic and my post disappeared and the forum is now locked. Weird.

orestes wrote: »

You do realise that tonnes of mods/cmods/admins aren't from Dublin, right? Some of them aren't even Irish or living in Ireland

I'm really surprised with the amount of biased moderating on this site in recent years. I have been administrator on my own community chat forum since 2006 and the only thing barred from my site is some bad language, offensive behavior towards other members, legal matters and hate speech. Anything else is permissible and in 11 years I have never had to warn anybody of anything.

Nervous Wreck

Strum wrote: »

Wow I just quoted a post in the board rules topic and my post disappeared and the forum is now locked. Weird.







I'm really surprised with the amount of biased moderating on this site in recent years. I have been administrator on my own community chat forum since 2006 and the only thing barred from my site is some bad language, offensive behavior towards other members, legal matters and hate speech. Anything else is permissible and in 11 years I have never had to warn anybody of anything.

Cool story, bro!

infogiver

Strum wrote: »

Wow I just posted something in the board rules topic and my post disappeared and the forum is now locked. Weird.



All I said was...

I'm really surprised with the amount of biased moderating on this site in recent years. I have been administrator on my own community chat forum since 2006 and the only thing barred from my site is some bad language, offensive behavior towards other members, legal matters and hate speech. Anything else is permissible and in 11 years I have never had to warn anybody of anything.

It's the same as if you invite some people into your home for a few drinks.
Its your home so you can tell someone to get out if you don't like their carry on.
If your the guest being told to leave you can't insist that your going to stay there anyway.

Strum

I don't get it. All other religions are up for discussion on these boards so why is the Islam forum closed? Why close the entire forum down two years ago but leave the original topics and posts?
I don't follow the logic behind this decision.

Zaph

The Islam forum was set up so that followers of the religion had somewhere that they could discuss all aspects of it and explain things to non-Muslims who were curious about Islam. Instead what it turned into was a forum where the believers spent their whole time defending their faith against an persistent, and frequently abusive onslaught. In no other religious forum were the believers forced to defend their faith in that way, and eventually most of them gave up posting there. What was left was basically the same sort of battleground that we're now seeing whenever threads about immigration start to get out of hand, and eventually we got to the point where it was beyond saving. On top of that, the constant grief in the forum meant that nobody wanted to moderate it any more, it was simply too stressful. All this meant that the only option we had was to reluctantly close the forum. It's a shame really, if it had been used in the way it was originally intended it could have been a highly informative forum for those of us who aren't Muslim as well as being somewhere that believers could discuss their religion.

Strum

Zaph wrote: »

The Islam forum was set up so that followers of the religion had somewhere that they could discuss all aspects of it and explain things to non-Muslims who were curious about Islam. Instead what it turned into was a forum where the believers spent their whole time defending their faith against an persistent, and frequently abusive onslaught. In no other religious forum were the believers forced to defend their faith in that way, and eventually most of them gave up posting there. What was left was basically the same sort of battleground that we're now seeing whenever threads about immigration start to get out of hand, and eventually we got to the point where it was beyond saving. On top of that, the constant grief in the forum meant that nobody wanted to moderate it any more, it was simply too stressful. All this meant that the only option we had was to reluctantly close the forum. It's a shame really, if it had been used in the way it was originally intended it could have been a highly informative forum for those of us who aren't Muslim as well as being somewhere that believers could discuss their religion.

Ok thank you for clarifying that. I respect than decision. I have only deleted one topic from my board because as you say, it became uncontrollable and out of hand. Politics of course.