Recruitment for British army soars in Republic of Ireland

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Sending children to laundry camps which are controlled by the church. Recipe for disaster. All on him.

A disaster that happened right around the world. Look what happened young footballers going to clubs in Britain or to  children going to the  BBC and the duty of care they should have had towards their employees.

Not a great deal of awareness. But let's lay it all at the door of one man, shall we? Because we cannot prove what we are saying about his war time activity with actual facts. And let's throw a conspiracy theory in there too that he was kept in power by a church.

Fabulous.

It was one of the first things he did. Make the Church have more influence over Irish life.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A disaster that happened right around the world. Look what happened young footballers going to clubs in Britain or to children going to the BBC and the duty of care they should have had towards their employees.

Not a great deal of awareness. But let's lay it all at the door of one man, shall we? Because we cannot prove what we are saying about his war time activity with actual facts. And let's throw a conspiracy theory in there too that he was kept in power by a church.

Fabulous.

Last I checked it was the people who kept the man in powa . "Up Dev" , "Up The Republic".

Was not long ago when the Church thought Fianna Fáil were commies

A Little Pony wrote: »

It was one of the first things he did. Make the Church have more influence over Irish life.

"More influence"?

I dread to know where you got your history education.

The Catholic Church had influence and power in Ireland LONG BEFORE 1916!!! Ask the family of CS Parnell.

I am going to assume that you will try to cite the old Article 44 of Bunreacht na hÉireann ... :rolleyes::D

Still waiting on the evidence about Dev

Moreover, the fist thing Dev did when he got into powa was get rid of the Governor General , abolish the oath and withheld land annuities

Moral of the story , folks: You can make any allegation that you want, you will not be held accountable for it. Apparently debates and discussions do not require the statements to be remotely factual . Just as well the subject is dead because defamation laws seem to be irrelevant.


But you will receive bans, infractions, pms etc from moderators for not being "nice".

A Little Pony wrote: »

If you don't understand the power the Church had on the Irish state, then I can do nothing for you. De Valera wanted the Church to have major influence on Irish life. We saw an example of that when the Pope made a visit and the huge crowd.

The Church was given a reign on the citizens of the Republic to do as they pleased. It was well known at the time the abuse of children in these institutions. De Valera set the tone and ultimately turned a blind eye to this. You need to go read  [font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]The Carrigan Report.[/font]

Oh dear oh dear. When you make an allegation and have no actual evidence eg reports being forwarded to Dev or Department of Justice or Education and nothing done about it...........just quit!

"f you don't understand the power the Church had on the Irish state, then I can do nothing for you"

Oh God, you do not even bother to read what was said, not to mention your curious idea of who is "The State" and the extent of power politicians hold on the people, or even the extent of the power that the Church , any Church holds on the People. . Rather naive, stupid and embarrassing actually.

As I have already , clearly pointed out Catholic Church had the Irish people under their thumb for DECADES before De Valera!! Even the British Administration in Ireland found the Church useful. In 1925, while DeV was in opposition, the Church and the State started the seriously restrictive censorship laws

There is justifiable reasons for Unionists to have issues with the threat of Rome Rule. Considering their behaviour towards Catholics for a good century or so, they knew that it would be pay back. One did not need a man like De Valera to incite anything there. Why would Cumann na nGaedheal bother getting the Church to declare that Fianna Fáil were Commies in 1926 but to discourage people from voting Fianna Fáil.

Don't know the power of the Church? Plenty of Anti Treaty IRA men knew the power of the Church as many feared Ex - Communication if they carried on the Civil War more than actually facing the Firing Squad of the Free State Troops.

One of the first major Catholic events that occurred the year that De Valera became leader of the Free State........the Eucharistic Congress, which had been organised a year or so in advance. The island of Ireland was then home to 3,171,697 Catholics. Look at how many attended the Phoenix Park Mass, about half a million lined out in O'Connell Street . It was one of the first major display of Catholicism in Ireland without fear of as per the Dundalk Democrat " persecution and spoliation" Like it or not Catholicism was linked to Southern Irish identity. No leader was going to stop that, not even W. T. Cosgrave (who would never have even contemplated that)

The 1930's was also a time when new churches were built around the country , big massive yolks akin to Rome. Some people have mistaken some churches as Cathedrals. It was a time for Catholic Ireland to show off.

A majority of the Population with a Devoutly Catholic Majority was always going to have a Catholic centered society and Constitution. In the UK as you know, Catholics can not (or could not - not sure about now) be Prime Ministers or members of the Monarchy. In 1937 , the Special Recongition of the Church was merely a recongition of fact , it actually added nothing to the influence of the RC that it did not already enjoy. You keep ignoring that fact that while the RC had "the special position" , the Constitution also recognised other denominations including the Church of Ireland and Jewish congregations, while guaranteeing the religious freedom of all citizens.

De Valera also resisted an attempt to make Roman Catholicism the State religion and his constitution forbids the establishment of a state religion. In the UK the King/Queen is also head of his /her church, the Church of England (of course, only in England) . If De Valera, as per your contention , really wanted Catholicism to have the place that you apparently think was new in 1937, then RC would have been a State Religion,. It was not however. In fact, that actually angered hard line Catholic laity and Clerics in the Hierarchy

The definition of family ie Catholic Definition , being the married family was/is no different to other Constitutions in other Countries at the time, some of whom are NOT remotely Catholic eg Germany ! Some countries still have the married family as their Constitutional Family.

Divorce ban was not entirely uncommon but there was hardly much support for Divorce back then in the 1930's. By the way in 1937, even the Church of Ireland senior heads opposed Divorce!!!! Italy only removed the divorce ban in the 1970's.

Lastly, who is "The State"? But the people! If the people did not want the RCC interfering they would have revolted, like people have done in the last 20 years. We saw what the French did in the 1960's, yet Ireland , 20 years later saw over 1 million people turn out for Pope JP II.

You saw what happened in 1986, Dev being long dead, when there was an attempt to bring in Divorce by Garreth Fitz. It nearly ruined the man politically. Over 25 % of those who voted said No to divorce (obviously farmers risking the loss of land shat themselves) Only for Alan Shatter in 1989 with his Separation Agreement Act, Irish families would have had big problems. The 1994/1995 Divorce Referendum scraped home with a tiny majority , less than 1%. It was not De Valera that went to the High Court AND Supreme Court to challenge the validity of the Referendum (Des Hanafin) But shure, you probably blame De Valera for apparently allowing the RCC to control Ireland :rolleyes:

We all saw what has been said about retaining the stupid blasphemy laws.

As for that report, (I will get back with that later, running out of time here,things to do ) Cumann na nGaedheal and Fine Gael (the lack of time in power compared to FF) did nowt either until Brendan Smith.