anyone else fed up hearing about abortion already

currants wrote: »

gctest50 wrote: »

Using a video of someones little premature kid to push your agenda ?

Did you email them and ask them was it ok if you did ?

Makes you wonder about the definition of human dignity doesn't it? Its like the baby doesn't have any rights to dignity or privacy himself and can be used casually and freely to score points in an anonymous argument outside of the context of why his parents posted his progress.

That level of dissonance is frightening. Its akin to the nutters who shoot doctors performing terminations. This is the level of discussion we can expect, its very depressing. Black and white thinking about gray moral issues is always repulsive when you witness it.

No its not. It's simply showing the baby born or unborn at 24 weeks.!

jameorahiely wrote: »

Born at 23 weeks, so cute

The PM machine must be running flat-out

Quick, quick, "ProLifer " asked for source in After Hours

Divert Divert

infogiver wrote: »

And Mr Soros billionaire from abortions is not funding the pro abortion side or is that allowed?
What have Refugees got to do with it?

infogiver wrote: »

And Mr Soros billionaire from abortions

You are saying George Soros made billions from abortions

Have you any source for this ?

donkeykong5 wrote: »

I suggest you read it again. It was extremely relevant. Especially the first line.

it really isnt. If my mother had aborted me then there would be no life to contemplate. it is like saying it is ok to abort if the subsequent child wasted their life.

donkeykong5 wrote: »

No its not. It's simply showing the baby born or unborn at 24 weeks.!

This is just more black and white thinking. Personally I'm horrified at the thought of people aborting for reasons like Downs Syndrome and other disabilities like cleft palate, however when phrases like "baby killers" get thrown around I always think of rape victims and women forced to carry and give birth to babies that they know they will be unable to care for because they already have one or more severely disabled children.
I cant find it in my heart to label them murderers because I have compassion for them and the horrible situations life puts some people in.

I would like to live in a civilised society that can debate these issues without resorting to name calling and primitive understandings of autonomy alongside emotive imagery. This debate is anything but simple and to construct it in a simple way is just continuing the cowardly way the need for abortion has always been ignored here. I'm sick of it.

RobertKK wrote: »

It is what I ask myself, and I have to say, and I cannot say it ok for a life that could bring happiness to many to be aborted.
There needs to be a lot of empathy for the unborn and their potential, empathy for the mother, empathy from the mother towards her unborn.

what if the life only brought misery to those around it? would it be ok to abort then?

RobertKK wrote: »

If a woman is ill and needs vital medical treatment that could kill her unborn, the life of the mother has to come first - near all in society agrees with that.

i'm not sure all on the pro-life side would agree with you.

RobertKK wrote: »

I do have an issue with people who talk about abortion as if it was akin to having one's tonsils or appendix removed when it comes from a position of birth control/unwanted pregnancy, and have zero empathy for the healthy unborn life life that they had terminated.
People can argue it is their choice, others can argue it lacks empathy and is quite cold.

I would argue a lot of people especially on the pro-life side think the philosophical questions I asked, and just cannot support abortion and the way it is used in society.
The problem is pro-choice see pro-life as lacking empathy towards women and their lives, and pro-life seeing pro-choice as lacking empathy towards the unborn and the potential of their lives.
It will forever be very divisive.

I dont think anybody who has an abortion does so lightly

Am I right in saying that 24 weeks is WELL past any limit that most people would argue for, barring fatal foetal abnormalities etc? So the above video (for another reason) is another strawman argument.

TheChizler wrote: »

Am I right in saying that 24 weeks is WELL past any limit that most people would argue for, barring fatal foetal abnormalities etc? So the above video (for another reason) is another strawman argument.

i dont know anybody who would be happy with a 24 week limit. given advances in medical science babies born at 24 weeks have a good chance of surviving.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Misery in any way you wish to think of. perhaps they grow up to murder their mother.

Who is to know the potential for good or misery before one is born, maybe with DNA in the future we will know.
That is the potential a life has, some use it for good and have bettered the world by being allowed to be born, others have used the potential they were given to bring misery and evil to the world.
I would argue the latter happens far less in society than the former.

RobertKK wrote: »

Who is to know the potential for good or misery before one is born, maybe with DNA in the future we will know.
That is the potential a life has, some use it for good and have bettered the world by being allowed to be born, others have used the potential they were given to bring misery and evil to the world.
I would argue the latter happens far less in society than the former.

your post said

Abortion is fine if you can support the idea that one's own mother could have aborted you and that the life one has is not worthwhile.

you are assuming that all lives are worthwhile. see, this is why your philosophical thinkpiece is irrelevant to this debate. it is just hypotheticals and maybes. It is just a sidetrack. probably best if we stick to discussing the current reality.

A Little Pony wrote: »

Someone said on demand a page back. No time limit or anything, just on demand. A bit like buying a pint of milk.

That doesn't mean there's no time limit. I support abortion on demand. As in not just when the woman's life is in danger. That doesn't mean I support it for the whole term of the pregnancy. You're putting words into peoples mouths.

RobertKK wrote: »

Who is to know the potential for good or misery before one is born, maybe with DNA in the future we will know.
That is the potential a life has, some use it for good and have bettered the world by being allowed to be born, others have used the potential they were given to bring misery and evil to the world.
I would argue the latter happens far less in society than the former.

Potential is weird though. If you had sex tonight you could be a dad. Does that mean that by not having sex you're denying your potential offspring their life? How about your grand-kids and great grand kids? All because you didn't have sex tonight.

Potentiality is not actuality.

IT needs to be talked about more ,
women who have a child who will not live or survive the birth
or supposed to continue the pregnancy .Under the present law doctors
can be sent to jail if they carry out an abortion .The laws we have now are from the 50,s and are a insult to women.
Section 8 should be scrapped , IF any womans health is in danger she should have the choice to go to a doctor get a letter and
get an abortion .
Whats happening now is 1000,s of people go to the uk and get an abortion.The law should be a womans health gets priority over any other
factors or simply just copy the law in england .
We have modernised the law on gay marriage and divorce .
Ireland is now a multicultural society with many non nationals from
many different countrys all of who have various different religions .
we can no longer base our laws on the catholic church .
i understand politicians see this as a difficult issue and maybe a
womens issue and are not in a hurry to change the law and
have a referendum on this .
Remember before the divorce referendum we were told it would
be a disaster and irish marriage would be in chaos if divorce became legal .
It,s time for this issue to be resolved and to be approached in a
logical mature manner and for womens rights to be given
priority.

infogiver wrote: »

So obviously you have a time limit in your head. What is your time limit?

The start of higher brain activity. An active brain is what makes us human. If someone is brain dead, even though their body is living, they are considered dead. That part that makes them a human being is effectively gone.

When there's just a group of cells there there's no brain activity. That occurs later. That's when the seed of consciousness is places. That's when a person is created. Until then it's just, for lack of a better word, ingredients with the potential of becoming a person.