anyone else fed up hearing about abortion already

jameorahiely · 09-01-2017 01:20PM

gctest50 wrote: »

Since you point it out, a woman should have no doubts at all then about terminating that pregnancy since it will be :

yes ?

Would you kill all these people without a doubt?

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/the-people-who-cant-feel-pain-scientists-discover-cause-of-rare-inherited-condition-that-turns-off-10274604.html
About one in a million people are thought to be born without a sense of pain

ohnonotgmail · 09-01-2017 01:21PM

jameorahiely wrote: »

Would you kill all these people without a doubt?

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/the-people-who-cant-feel-pain-scientists-discover-cause-of-rare-inherited-condition-that-turns-off-10274604.html
About one in a million people are thought to be born without a sense of pain

do you need a hand shifting those goalposts?

Zubeneschamali · 09-01-2017 01:37PM

infogiver wrote: »

This is one of the many fears pro life people have. That once abortion is legal that there will be a push on to force people to abort apparently disabled unborn babies, because it is "cruel" (why do you think that when the evidence doesn't support it?) or possibly because of the financial strain on the public purse.

Well, let me set your fears to rest - we already have legal abortion on demand for Irish people, it is even guaranteed in the Irish Constitution after a vote, and none of your fears have come to pass.

jameorahiely · 09-01-2017 01:46PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Well, let me set your fears to rest - we already have legal abortion on demand for Irish people, it is even guaranteed in the Irish Constitution after a vote, and none of your fears have come to pass.

Sure if we already have abortion on demand, what's the problem?

Zubeneschamali · 09-01-2017 01:56PM

jameorahiely wrote: »

Sure if we already have abortion on demand, what's the problem?

Our constitutionally guaranteed system involves a trip to the UK, which is hard on the poor, impossible for the incarcerated or institutionalized, and not an option for a woman in an emergency.

But I made a trip to the UK just last week - it is cheap and straightforward for most people.

Still, we should help out those people in the various groups above whose ability to travel is restricted.

astrofool · 09-01-2017 02:21PM

The debate is about giving equal access to abortion to everyone. Abortion is already legal, or are we going to extradite everyone in the UK who works in a clinic, or had an abortion as they are murderers?

In fact, I'd probably go further and say that, via abortifacients, abortion is de facto happening in this country, and a blind eye is being turned as it will be completely impossible to enforce, and that their use will only grow as they get cheaper and more accessible in other countries. Thus the debate solely becomes of allowing clinical abortions to be performed in the island of Ireland for those who cannot travel or cannot use an abortifacient.

Zubeneschamali · 09-01-2017 02:30PM

astrofool wrote: »

Abortion is already legal, or are we going to extradite everyone in the UK who works in a clinic, or had an abortion as they are murderers?

We even had a series of referendums on this, and the democratic decision of the people was that traveling for an abortion is a constitutional right.

Even all the nonsensical theoretical abortions the "pro-life" lobby invent to try and make abortion sound worse, like a late term abortion because the pregnant woman changed her mind on a whim - guaranteed in the constitution. That debate is over.

Now the debate is do we allow this constitutionally guaranteed right to everyone, or do we exclude some people who cannot travel.

jameorahiely · 09-01-2017 02:51PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Our constitutionally guaranteed system involves a trip to the UK, which is hard on the poor, impossible for the incarcerated or institutionalized, and not an option for a woman in an emergency.

But I made a trip to the UK just last week - it is cheap and straightforward for most people.

Still, we should help out those people in the various groups above whose ability to travel is restricted.

What sort of abortion emergencies?

thee glitz · 09-01-2017 03:04PM

Parchment wrote: »

Its obvious what side you are gunning for. I would just like to point out that nobody is pro-abortion. People are pro-choice.

Most people are pro-choice, but the term has been adopted as a euphemism for those who are specifically pro-abortion choice.

rainbow kirby · 09-01-2017 03:04PM

jameorahiely wrote: »

What sort of abortion emergencies?

Needing an abortion where there are visa issues involved restricting your right to leave the state
Needing an abortion when you are very young and living with (potentially anti-choice or abusive) parents
Needing an abortion when you are in an abusive relationship with little access to instant cash
Needing an abortion when you need to arrange childcare for a large family if you are to travel
Needing an abortion so you can start cancer treatment
Needing an abortion so you can stay on lifesaving medication
Needing an abortion so you don't risk a life threatening infection when a miscarriage is happening too slowly

and many more.

Parchment · 09-01-2017 03:51PM

thee glitz wrote: »

Most people are pro-choice, but the term has been adopted as a euphemism for those who are specifically pro-abortion choice.

Pro abortion?

I dont think ANYONE wants to have an abortion. Do you think its not a huge choice for people who do make the choice? of course it is. Its a medical procedure.

They need to be able to make that choice, if they choose to make it, safely and legally in their own country. They live with their decision - not anyone else.

Zubeneschamali · 09-01-2017 03:52PM

jameorahiely wrote: »

What sort of abortion emergencies?

I mean women who have an urgent need for an abortion, like Savita Halappanarva. Obviously you can't load a woman in labour and at risk of infection onto a plane because your Irish doctors are afraid to do an abortion as requested because of our mad laws.

jameorahiely · 09-01-2017 04:20PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I mean women who have an urgent need for an abortion, like Savita Halappanarva. Obviously you can't load a woman in labour and at risk of infection onto a plane because your Irish doctors are afraid to do an abortion as requested because of our mad laws.

Abortions for women in labour. That's a new one.

gctest50 · 09-01-2017 05:21PM

jameorahiely wrote: »

Abortions for women in labour. That's a new one.

How about abortions if needed for say a woman at the 17 week stage where infection already has a foothold?

Osmosis Jones · 09-01-2017 05:50PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

It's nothing compared to the coverage of trans issues. The amount of airtime this receives is just ridiculous. It's a sexy media darling which impacts on f*ck all percentage of the population. At least abortion potentially effects loads of people.

Maybe it gets airtime because people like you bring it up completely unprovoked in a different discussion.

donkeykong5 · 09-01-2017 07:31PM

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

suicide_circus wrote: »

It's nothing compared to the coverage of trans issues. The amount of airtime this receives is just ridiculous. It's a sexy media i
darling which impacts on f*ck all percentage of the population. At least abortion potentially effects loads of people.

Maybe it gets airtime because people like you bring it up completely unprovoked in a different discussion.

If transfer issues affects a low percentage of the population. Then why oh why is it on irish tv and radio and media 24/7.

donkeykong5 · 09-01-2017 07:32PM

donkeykong5 wrote: »

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

suicide_circus wrote: »

It's nothing compared to the coverage of trans issues. The amount of airtime this receives is just ridiculous. It's a sexy media i
darling which impacts on f*ck all percentage of the population. At least abortion potentially effects loads of people.

Maybe it gets airtime because people like you bring it up completely unprovoked in a different discussion.

If transfer issues affects a low percentage of the population. Then why oh why is it on irish tv and radio and media 24/7.

I mean trans issues.

PopePalpatine · 09-01-2017 07:32PM

donkeykong5 wrote: »

If transfer issues affects a low percentage of the population. Then why oh why is it on irish tv and radio and media 24/7.

Because football fans want to know who's the next big name coming to/leaving their favourite team, of course!

Rezident · 09-01-2017 07:54PM

Well most of the news nowadays is about death anyway so it fits right in.

thee glitz · 09-01-2017 08:09PM

Parchment wrote: »

thee glitz wrote:

pro-abortion choice

Pro abortion?

Nope - pro-abortion choice.

_Jamie_ · 09-01-2017 08:16PM

To answer the OP's question, yes, I'm very sick of it. I want the laws to change on the matter but I am weary of the debate at this stage.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 09-01-2017 08:24PM

I am fed up of it, yes. Hearing about it, thinking about it, arguing about it.

Not as fed up as I am with knowing that were I to get pregnant regardless of whether I wanted to continue with the pregnancy or not that pregnancy would be controlled by one of the most terribly worded, wrong headed sentences in the history of the law.

Fed up with knowing that it was pointed out at the time what problems it would lead to, and that they've all come to pass. Fed up with knowing that the people who got it put there are some of the viciously minded religiously zealous bigots the country has ever seen, who have since been on the morally wrong (and thankfully losing) side of every debate on social issues in Ireland. Fed up with Youth Defence, Precious Life and the like blatantly lying and misleading the public because they know if they stick to facts they'll lose. Fed up with the bullshít rhetoric of 'Love Them Both' masking hatred like what's been posted here. Fed up with money and resources being funnelled in from religious fundamentalists in the States to keep Irish women in this ludicrous limbo.

Yes I'm ****ing fed up with it, roll on the referendum.

PopePalpatine · 09-01-2017 08:34PM

I'm fed up of re-reg accounts which appear just for this subject.

Galwayguy35 · 09-01-2017 08:38PM

Having weeks or even months of debate before a referendum is a waste of time, doubt anyone on this thread will change their mind and I know I certainly won't.

For one side it's just a clump of cells that needs to be got rid of and for the other side it's a human life and killing it is murder.

As for showing the pictures of aborted fetuses, it's what happens in a surgical abortion so but the pro choice side would rather that that side of it shouldn't get any coverage.

Grayson · 09-01-2017 08:41PM

Alivia Early Eyeball wrote: »

I am fed up of it, yes. Hearing about it, thinking about it, arguing about it.

Not as fed up as I am with knowing that were I to get pregnant regardless of whether I wanted to continue with the pregnancy or not that pregnancy would be controlled by one of the most terribly worded, wrong headed sentences in the history of the law.

Fed up with knowing that it was pointed out at the time what problems it would lead to, and that they've all come to pass. Fed up with knowing that the people who got it put there are some of the viciously minded religiously zealous bigots the country has ever seen, who have since been on the morally wrong (and thankfully losing) side of every debate on social issues in Ireland. Fed up with Youth Defence, Precious Life and the like blatantly lying and misleading the public because they know if they stick to facts they'll lose. Fed up with the bullshít rhetoric of 'Love Them Both' masking hatred like what's been posted here. Fed up with money and resources being funnelled in from religious fundamentalists in the States to keep Irish women in this ludicrous limbo.

Yes I'm ****ing fed up with it, roll on the referendum.

Freedom of speech is important. We need to have these discussions but yep, it's sickening having to have it over and over again. Especially about something that we shouldn't even need to discuss.

The freedom to choose should be a basic right. The right to have adequate medical care is just that, a right. Women shouldn't be forced to live with substandard care just because of an archaic law. The fact that women have died because of this is disgusting.

So year, I'm sick of this discussion. Every so often I take a break from threads like this and ones about race and sexism, because it can be exhausting having a discussion about basic human rights again and again and again. But I keep coming back to them because it's the right thing to do.

Grayson · 09-01-2017 08:42PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Having weeks or even months of debate before a referendum is a waste of time, doubt anyone on this thread will change their mind and I know I certainly won't.

For one side it's just a clump of cells that needs to be got rid of and for the other side it's a human life and killing it is murder.

As for showing the pictures of aborted fetuses, it's what happens in a surgical abortion so but the pro choice side would rather that that side of it shouldn't get any coverage.

Especially when the prolife side use photo's that aren't actually what they say they are. And ignore the fact that women have died because of the eight amendment.

09-01-2017 08:54PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Having weeks or even months of debate before a referendum is a waste of time, doubt anyone on this thread will change their mind and I know I certainly won't.

For one side it's just a clump of cells that needs to be got rid of and for the other side it's a human life and killing it is murder.

As for showing the pictures of aborted fetuses, it's what happens in a surgical abortion so but the pro choice side would rather that that side of it shouldn't get any coverage.

I think we do need to keep talking about it, there are varying opinions on abortion, while yes it's two sides (pro or anti) there are people who sit with different opinions on both of those sides. I am extremely pro-choice but would never refer to an abortion as "a clump of cells that needs to be got rid of", I classify it as a medical procedure, often necessary.

Many people are very indecisive on the topic, i.e some people say they wouldn't get an abortion but would have no problem with someone else getting one. In a referendum it is as black and white as yes or no, but in terms of discussing it and stating facts it's not just black and white.

_Jamie_ · 09-01-2017 09:02PM

Grayson wrote: »

Freedom of speech is important. We need to have these discussions but yep, it's sickening having to have it over and over again. Especially about something that we shouldn't even need to discuss.

The freedom to choose should be a basic right. The right to have adequate medical care is just that, a right. Women shouldn't be forced to live with substandard care just because of an archaic law. The fact that women have died because of this is disgusting.

So year, I'm sick of this discussion. Every so often I take a break from threads like this and ones about race and sexism, because it can be exhausting having a discussion about basic human rights again and again and again. But I keep coming back to them because it's the right thing to do.

The worst thing about this debate is the people that use it to axe-grind further about "de feminists!". It isn't even a feminist issue.

C. Montgomery Gurns · 09-01-2017 09:12PM

In the grand scheme of things abortion rights is probably the most insignificant issue on the political table today, even below the legalisation of recreational cannabis use.

Pablo Escobar · 09-01-2017 09:13PM

I get angry whenever I hear somebody blowing on about either side. A proper debate is necessary, but is basically impossible due to the existence of extremists on both sides.

On a lighter note, has anyone realised the likeness of the Repeal banner to that of HB Ice Cream?.....just an observation.......

anyone else fed up hearing about abortion already

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