Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

MayoAreMagic · 05-01-2017 11:46PM

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Stop this absolute bull of making out players are being distracted by media and that's why they are performing poorly, it's a stupid idea that is typical keep your head down and say nothing caveman Ireland attitude. Media interviews, social media posts etc aren't frowned upon in other sports! Why is gaelic football different.... If you haven't won the All Ireland yet then shut up and don't be seen because you'll be "distracted".

It really is the laziest excuse going and I'm sorry to break it to ye but it has no precedence to support it and it has no basis, and thrown around with no thought given to it.

"Aidan O'Shea plays badly when he goes on the pitch because he did the show on RTE for a week and he does interviews and likes Twitter." That's basically what people are saying. Just actually think about that and break it down in your head, ridiculous argument. Don't hear the likes of it going on elsewhere, why does the GAA have to be backward and begrudge someone opportunities in the media?

That isnt what I said at all.
It is more the fact that they seem to still be quite enamored with the whole media/fame side of things would indicate that they havent woken up and seen that for what it is yet. It seems to be higher on their list of priorities than it should be. That doesnt mean they cant go anywhere near it.
Paul Galvin courted the media a nice bit, but he made sure he got the work done on his game first and foremost, because he realised early on, if you are going to be talking, you sure as hell better be delivering too. That isnt a caveman Ireland attitude, that is just the way of the world.

I dont get this self-loathing attitude people have about ireland, where they attribute everything negative to being irish. If an unsuccessful hollywood actor tried to walk down the red carpet and stood there for an interview, do you think he would get many takers? Are the irish to blame for that too? It is far more an objective critique than stoneage ireland.

blowitupref · 05-01-2017 11:51PM

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Must be one hell of a price on that team holiday, 26 players and their partners, who's paying?

Fully deserved too btw. Wish the likes of it would happen more at inter county level.

I think the teams that reach AI final are given a holiday by and mostly paid for by GAA HQ.

Oldtree · 06-01-2017 01:25AM

seligehgit wrote: »

Ah tad harsh there Oldtree I certainly wasn't in any way trying to disrespect Robert Hennelly who has been a great servant to the county.Just pointing out the cold reality of past big day performances.Just to emphasise I believe there are a couple of other goalkeepers who could come into the setup.At the end of the day nobody has a god given right to a place in the team/squad.I do concur with your keyboard warriors comment but all this forum is,is a means for us to express our different and by no means expert opinions about all things re our beloved Mayo football.

Really looking forward to Sunday myself, I'll keep an eye out for Mikey Sweeney!:)

I was more referring to the Johnny come latelys and not regular posters like yourself whose opinions I enjoy reading and then we move on:-)

Thanks for keeping an eye out for me as the eyesight is worse this year but the bifocals help,.

Oldtree · 06-01-2017 01:27AM

yop wrote: »

Ah ya the others have to take responsibility on it also, but we could be going around in circles Agreed to disagree

I think we could both agree on blaming the water boys for not keeping the boys hydrated enough on the big day ;-)

mayo.mick · 06-01-2017 01:38AM

https://twitter.com/MayoWeather/status/817117758831947776

MaroonAndGreen · 06-01-2017 02:05AM

MayoAreMagic wrote:

That isnt what I said at all. It is more the fact that they seem to still be quite enamored with the whole media/fame side of things would indicate that they havent woken up and seen that for what it is yet. It seems to be higher on their list of priorities than it should be. That doesnt mean they cant go anywhere near it. Paul Galvin courted the media a nice bit, but he made sure he got the work done on his game first and foremost, because he realised early on, if you are going to be talking, you sure as hell better be delivering too. That isnt a caveman Ireland attitude, that is just the way of the world.

Higher on their list of priorities? And Paul Galvin got his work done.. And Mayo players don't? Again that's lazy assumptions of the highest order. What makes you think that being minimally involved in media, which these players in question are, is stopping them from focusing on their game? Are they missing training? Are they late? Are they not trying cos they sent out a few tweets? Your insinuating that Mayo players aren't working as hard as Paul Galvin etc with absolutely no evidence only that one or 2 of them did an odd interview on the radio and one went on a holiday to America for a week.

Also to say they are enamoured with the media side of things... a Mayo player doesn't do a lot of media, the very odd thing, and yet they are spoken about like they are getting preoccupied by it?

I'll say it again it's a lazy criticism that is so very often thrown at players in the GAA. Ah his heads not in it he's too focused on media, when in fact said player only did 3-4 twenty minute interviews over a whole summer

MaroonAndGreen · 06-01-2017 02:09AM

And thinking that a player or person shouldn't talk to the media if they aren't playing well isn't a caveman attitude, well, it is.

You'd swear they did press conferences every day. Have to consider not giving an interview if they haven't performed well recently.

MaroonAndGreen · 06-01-2017 02:15AM

I don't know why our lads do it sometimes. Spend half the time being criticised for either losing one game after bursting their balls and winning almost everything all year or being criticised for daring to have a life or enjoy the small benefits (like media coverage) they might get from bursting themselves 4-5 nights a week for years.

MaroonAndGreen · 06-01-2017 02:27AM

Rant over.

MayoAreMagic · 06-01-2017 11:10AM

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Higher on their list of priorities? And Paul Galvin got his work done.. And Mayo players don't? Again that's lazy assumptions of the highest order. What makes you think that being minimally involved in media, which these players in question are, is stopping them from focusing on their game? Are they missing training? Are they late? Are they not trying cos they sent out a few tweets? Your insinuating that Mayo players aren't working as hard as Paul Galvin etc with absolutely no evidence only that one or 2 of them did an odd interview on the radio and one went on a holiday to America for a week.

Also to say they are enamoured with the media side of things... a Mayo player doesn't do a lot of media, the very odd thing, and yet they are spoken about like they are getting preoccupied by it?

I'll say it again it's a lazy criticism that is so very often thrown at players in the GAA. Ah his heads not in it he's too focused on media, when in fact said player only did 3-4 twenty minute interviews over a whole summer

Well Paul Galvin's performances on the field would suggest that he indeed had his work done. He developed hugely over his career, improving all facets of his game, with his kickpassing in particular going from a weakness to a strength. When assigned his role by JOC, he developed his arms to battle for breaking ball and tackle opponents.
In contrast, AOS still cant use his right foot and still holds onto the ball too long, making him easier to dispossess (in fact Kieran Shannon also referenced his lack of development as a player recently), while hennelly is still poor under a high ball while his judgement hasn't improved... There is your evidence man, like it or lump it.

As the saying goes, if you stand still, you fall behind. They have stood still as regards their game. In contrast, Philly McMahon has developed his ability to combat opponents in the air, via basketball coaching, and the same tactics have worked for him for 3 years in a row against AOS. Consider that, a smaller man, pulling the same stunt about 7 times on the trot and it never being countered; that isn't good reading...
The evidence that they aren't thinking about and developing their game enough, is overwhelming, if you actually look.

Re not doing a lot of media, Id argue oshea does more than any gaa player to be honest with you. You seem to be getting bogged down in the whole media thing. It is more that people need to remember to concentrate on what got them into the media first and foremost. Who wants to listen to a failing gaa player talk about gaa? That is what both are now. If they are ok with that, fair enough, keep concentrating on talking in the media. I talk about growing up a bit, because realising the folly of that is generally waking up to reality a bit.

As regards lazy assumptions, the only one I can see going on here is your assumption that any reference to media and players being in it, is somehow caveman-esque, as if it can never be discussed in any reasonable or objective way. You seem to have veered away from the Ireland bashing, rather referring it as caveman - does that mean you think the irish are cavemen? I think it is yourself who is acting caveman-like here, by ignoring the nuances of the argument in your rush of temper to roar back your response to a point you are assuming you are responding to.

MayoAreMagic · 06-01-2017 11:49AM

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

I don't know why our lads do it sometimes. Spend half the time being criticised for either losing one game after bursting their balls and winning almost everything all year or being criticised for daring to have a life or enjoy the small benefits (like media coverage) they might get from bursting themselves 4-5 nights a week for years.

Because that is what it takes to do what they are trying to do. Im sure there are plenty lads out there who didn't do the work Paul Galvin did.

They never cut it at the top of the game though, and nobody knows who they are...

Listen, I respect those lads completely as people. But they are trying to enter the privileged domain of top class inter county footballers, and that is their own choice. There can be no molly-coddling or wistful thinking there and other counties who have maintained success have never engaged in that sort of attitude. Bursting you backside 5 nights a week is a given. Nobody is going to let you win a ball because you are a sound lad or are a good person, or because you nearly got there before. That is the name of the game - and that is the game they have chosen to play. While they are still choosing to do so, they are rightfully up for criticism.

We have a habit of making heroes out of guys in mayo, and then cutting them too much slack afterwards when they aren't playing so well. Mortimer, McDonald, Willie Joe, and now AOS. It is like we are afraid that they cant be replaced. That might have been the case once, but not any more. The big difference between Mayo and Kerry is that Mayo make heroes of their players, while in Kerry, the only hero is Kerry gaa. If guys are giving their all in the name of that then fine, they get praise. If they aren't, they are yesterdays news and someone else gets the praise. I mean, consider for a second that a Kerry ff who has stuttered for form for a few years had more press interviews than goals scored - he would be ridiculed. They would see it as disrespectful to the team and the jersey. It is that mentality that has kept superb talents like the gooch, galvin, donaghy, etc rowing for the team at all times, because they grew up immersed in that pragmatic mentality.

Now people will probably say, not another closet Kerry fan, isn't that the type of talk that holmes and Connelly got the bullet for. But Im not interested in Kerry in the slightest, Im interested in what made then successful.

mayo.mick · 06-01-2017 11:56AM

seligehgit wrote: »

Mea culpa my reliable source obviously got it wrong,he's more of a grá for the small ball.:D

Might not have, there's mention of it being off now on WJ's blog this morning. No word anywhere else though?

Kalyke · 06-01-2017 01:58PM

Look, no Mayo player is allowed to do any media work, unless and until he has an All-Ireland in his pocket!............:rolleyes:

MayoAreMagic · 06-01-2017 02:02PM

Kalyke wrote: »

Look, no Mayo player is allowed to do any media work, unless and until he has an All-Ireland in his pocket!............:rolleyes:

It is more about being on top of your game before you start crowing about it to be fair. That is just common sense and goes in any walk of life. There was no mention of all Irelands.

Kalyke · 06-01-2017 02:09PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

It is more about being on top of your game before you start crowing about it to be fair. That is just common sense and goes in any walk of life. There was no mention of all Irelands.

Agreed, but it is how some people are measuring a players "top of their game " that makes it impossible. According to some arguments, only Dublin players are allowed to give interviews, be on Twitter , TV shows, etc.

mayo.mick · 06-01-2017 02:14PM

mayo.mick wrote: »

Might not have, there's mention of it being off now on WJ's blog this morning. No word anywhere else though?

Confirmed now by Mayo GAA

https://twitter.com/MayoGAA/status/817350910905040897

MayoAreMagic · 06-01-2017 02:20PM

Kalyke wrote: »

Agreed, but it is how some people are measuring a players "top of their game " that makes it impossible. According to some arguments, only Dublin players are allowed to give interviews, be on Twitter , TV shows, etc.

Those people are not on this thread though...

I understand that people will get offers from the media, but they need to be switched on to the bigger picture too. The same media are only too happy to eat them without salt a second later.

A players true currency is his game. Be on top of it and the rest will take care of itself. Those lads mentioned haven't seemed to have learned that yet, and they are making it harder on themselves.

Fr Tod Umptious · 06-01-2017 02:58PM

Kalyke wrote: »

Look, no Mayo player is allowed to do any media work, unless and until he has an All-Ireland in his pocket!............:rolleyes:

It's a bit like being a Mayo fan and expressing confidence init.

Express confidence and you are accused of fueling some sort of mythical hype machine

Express pessimism and you are told how can the players be confident if the fans aren't

MayoAreMagic · 06-01-2017 03:21PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

It's a bit like being a Mayo fan and expressing confidence init.

Express confidence and you are accused of fueling some sort of mythical hype machine

Express pessimism and you are told how can the players be confident if the fans aren't

Kinda, except the fans don't have any control over the performance. Like if AOS was playing great stuff and mayo still hadn't won sam, he would still get more leeway. It is overly simplistic to suggest that winning is the only requirement. Like John Doyle is well respected and people wouldn't mind him speaking, and he won nothing.

MaroonAndGreen · 06-01-2017 08:37PM

MayoAreMagic wrote:

Well Paul Galvin's performances on the field would suggest that he indeed had his work done. He developed hugely over his career, improving all facets of his game, with his kickpassing in particular going from a weakness to a strength. When assigned his role by JOC, he developed his arms to battle for breaking ball and tackle opponents. In contrast, AOS still cant use his right foot and still holds onto the ball too long, making him easier to dispossess (in fact Kieran Shannon also referenced his lack of development as a player recently), while hennelly is still poor under a high ball while his judgement hasn't improved... There is your evidence man, like it or lump it.

Even if it's correct what you say, and Hennelly and AOS don't work hard enough on their weaknesses... What has that got to do with them being accessible to the public? What about the other players who haven't improved but aren't in the spotlight, what's stopping them and why can't Hennelly be judged the same way? You can't just assume they are distracted because you see more of them in the public.

MayoAreMagic wrote:

Re not doing a lot of media, Id argue oshea does more than any gaa player to be honest with you. You seem to be getting bogged down in the whole media thing. It is more that people need to remember to concentrate on what got them into the media first and foremost. Who wants to listen to a failing gaa player talk about gaa? That is what both are now. If they are ok with that, fair enough, keep concentrating on talking in the media. I talk about growing up a bit, because realising the folly of that is generally waking up to reality a bit.

"Keep concentrating on talking in the media" - How much concentration do you think this takes? You think a player will be so distracted by doing the odd interview every few weeks that he's now concentrating on that and not his football? And if we are judging Mayo players as failing GAA players that nobody wants to listen to talk about GAA then we are more or less going to have to rule out 95% of the current inter county players aren't we! Maybe you don't want to listen to Mayo players but obviously people do as they wouldn't be given the platform to speak otherwise.

MayoAreMagic wrote:

As regards lazy assumptions, the only one I can see going on here is your assumption that any reference to media and players being in it, is somehow caveman-esque, as if it can never be discussed in any reasonable or objective way. You seem to have veered away from the Ireland bashing, rather referring it as caveman - does that mean you think the irish are cavemen? I think it is yourself who is acting caveman-like here, by ignoring the nuances of the argument in your rush of temper to roar back your response to a point you are assuming you are responding to.

Talk about grabbing on to one word a person said and not being able to let go. I never said it can't be discussed in a reasonable way, I just think it's not being discussed reasonably in the case of our team, and in a lot of the GAA for that matter. I stand by my point: if you think the "main problem" a player is underperforming is because he spoke to the press a few times during the year then your massively overestimating the effect an interview etc will have. I don't buy it that players are effectively not trying as hard as they should because they are concerned with fame or being in the papers, it's not taking up half as much time or headspace as people like to believe.

MaroonAndGreen · 06-01-2017 08:51PM

And they are bursting themselves 4-5 nights a week I'm sure.

I'm going off on a tangent here but it's a good example of a general theme in the GAA. You see this is the GAA all over. If you are seen to be talking about the game while your not playing well then your disrespectful. I don't know why that mentality is being championed. Not arguing that Kerry aren't doing it or that the likes of that attitude harmed them but it's a sad state of affairs that we judge amateurs by them standards IMO.
Mortimer and MacDonald are interesting players in this too. I firmly believe a lot of their dislike came from being different, the socks pulled up to the knees, bleached hair or what not. You don't express yourself in the GAA you see. Keep the head down, make sure you have black boots only, don't speak to any media unless you've won the All Ireland. Really this is the caveman attitude I referred to in an earlier post. Do anything different in our sport and your "distracted" or "disrespectful" or don't care about jersey, when really that could be a million miles away from the truth.

And also, this is a major reason you have young lads opting out of football at a rapid rate nowadays IMO. It's all consuming. And IMO it's not sustainable.

finisklin · 08-01-2017 12:09PM

Any team news for FBD game later?

seligehgit · 08-01-2017 12:14PM

finisklin wrote: »

Any team news for FBD game later?

Not a dicky bird..it probably won't be until we get our sorry excuse for a programme before we hear anything concrete!:pac:

Not a very pleasant winter's day.:(

PARlance · 08-01-2017 04:59PM

Feel bad about not being overly bothered about going to see the game now after seeing the team sheet and realising that despite my views on the FBD, it's still a great honour and chance for some.

Kalyke · 08-01-2017 05:12PM

Draw I hear?

cup of tea · 08-01-2017 05:14PM

Kalyke wrote: »

Draw I hear?

No, NUIG won

Fr Tod Umptious · 08-01-2017 05:15PM

Kalyke wrote: »

Draw I hear?

Nope
1-21 to 2-16 to NUIG

Oldtree · 08-01-2017 05:58PM

Not a bad game for this time of year.

I thought NUIG put on a very good performance with some lovely long points. They were very quick to get their midfield both forward and back giving a distinct advantage. They took full advantage of the wind in the first half too.

We needed to be a bit more careful with the kickouts, both placement and reciept, and the wides... the wides. Didn't seem to win s lot if the high balls either.

It was good to see a bit of flare from the younger players and there were some lovely moments in play.

No 18 Danny Kirby stood out for me as a player to keep an eye out for.

Ps the program wasn't bad for a euro :-)

PressRun · 08-01-2017 06:43PM

Very enjoyable match. Free flowing and high scoring. Thought Fergal Boland was the stand out player for us, got some lovely scores. Danny Kirby did well too and Shane Nally had a good showing too towards the end. Neil Douglas seemed frustrated, struggled to get shots off at times, but did get a very nice point in the second half and took his penalty well. Liam Irwin has a good bit of work to do, imo, and was caught out ball watching more than once, but I think he will be kept. Goalkeeper probably needs more coaching on the kickouts, but that should come with time too. A lot of kickouts went long which allowed us to see the mark in action, but I don't see long range kickouts happening all that much later in the year.

On NUIG's side of things, Comer was causing a lot of trouble. He's a strong man and took some nice scores. Adam Gallagher had a great game too.

seligehgit · 08-01-2017 07:23PM

Pretty much reiterating what's been stated previously.It was a very enjoyable game where a very inexperienced Mayo team with a rich sprinkling of youth gave a good account of themselves.This was a very good NUIG team who showed great cohesion and excellent teamwork with some impresssive scoretaking.

Val Daly's son Michael was the standout player on the pitch today,sublime display.Damian Comer tortured Ray O Malley and co,two players we could do with.The usual suspects Corofin's Kieran Molloy was very effective,ditto Mayo's Stephen Conroy.

Adam Gallagher similar to last year was very impressive and his freetaking was impeccable.

Understandably the Mayo team was not as cohesive in nature.Rory Byrne was steady if unspectacular in goal but the kickouts were less than ideal.The full back line struggled and it was unfortunate that Ray O Malley was sent off for two yellow cards.Donie Newcombe was solid,the half back line was oftentimes on the back foot with Eoghan O Reilly struggling on Daly.

Shane Nally grew into the game and scored two great points in the second half.He's a very solid option for the panel later in the year.Danny Kirby worked very hard and was one of our best performers.

Fergal Boland put in an exceptional first half but was a tad less prominent in the second period.Probably our top performer on the day.Neil Douglas appeared to be just trying too hard and little came off for him on the day,ditto Cian Costello.Liam Irwin freetaking from the right side off the ground was impeccable but he needs to contribute to a greater extent from general play.Brian Reape kicked a couple of lovely points.

Team

Rory Byrne
Niall McManamon
Ray O Malley
Donie Newcombe
Brain McDermott
Eoghan O Reilly
Michael Plunkett
Shane Nally (C)
Danny Kirby
Fionn McDonagh
Cian Costello
Fergal Boland
Liam Irwin
Neil Douglas
Brian Reape

Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

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