Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

charlie1980

Suarezistheman wrote: »

What in the name of christ have the supporters got to do with it?? The massive irony in this critique of yours Is, the players demanding a change in management was there effort at "demanding the best" & the whole reason they got rid of Noel & Pat??? Good enough for me & I go to every game, every year

I go to every game

So what? one man and his dog at the FBD league.Did you actually play the game?

The Mayo public want an All Ireland and not back slapping,lick arseing or sentimental auld shoi1te.

It's an All Ireland or nothing,it's as simple as that.

NabyLadistheman

charlie1980 wrote: »

I go to every game

So what? one man and his dog at the FBD league.Did you actually play the game?

The Mayo public want an All Ireland and not back slapping,lick arseing or sentimental auld shoi1te.

It's an All Ireland or nothing,it's as simple as that.

If it was back-slapping that was going on Noel & Pat would still be in the job.

martyos121

For the love of god, stop quoting him please.

Shurimgreat

martyos121 wrote: »

For the love of god, stop quoting him please.

You mightn't like what he says but at least he tells it as it is.

Too many Mayo supporters settle for the status quo and are happy to see the same mistakes repeated year after year after year.

Its not hard to see some of the patterns in Mayo football that have to be changed. Unfortunately when someone calls them out, you have other people who would rather put their fingers in their ears or bury their heads in the sand.

I still don't get why the Breaffy brigade have such an influence over the setup particularly when you consider their own shortfalls on AI final days.

At this stage they have joined the ranks of previous Mayo AI final flops.

I see no evidence of Rochford being his own man. That's the point Charlie is making too.

Fr Tod Umptious

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I don't think there is an AI in this group of players quite honestly.

You need all your big players to show up on AI final day.

Unfortunately the high profile Breaffy contingent have a habit of going missing on AI final day. You won't win an AI when 3 or 4 players don't show up.

This Mayo team is good enough to reach AI finals on a regular basis but it just doesn't have that extra bottle or discipline to get them over the line.

Something major has to change such as sacrificing a couple of players who tend to be anonymous when it really counts.

Replace the Breaffy contingent with players of real hunger and ambition and the chances improve greatly.

I think you are over reaching a bit to suggest that this team will never win an All Ireland.

What I took from last year was that the difference between winning one and not is tiny.

It took a series of bizarre circumstances, two o.gs and a fumble by the keeper and at the end of the day they lose by a pobeat

In 2014 a clash of heads had a influence on Mayos chances of contesting an AI Final v a Donegal team that were a shadow of the team that beat them in 2012.

Had Dublin been called for a pick off the ground (rightly or wrongly) with the last kick out of the first game then that would be just another example of how tiny the difference is, and no one would be talking about this Breaffy contingent.

The bounce of a ball could go your way and you win it.

I always take encouragement from the Cork team of 2010.

Five years in a row they got dumped out of the championship at the SF (one replay too) or Final by Kerry.
But in 2010 their luck comes in, there are no real contenders left and they beat Down by a point.

I'll take that sort of luck any day.

Bunny Colvin

It's all talk lads. We won't know where we are until July and hopefully the first week in August. Long time to go yet.

Shurimgreat

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I think you are over reaching a bit to suggest that this team will never win an All Ireland.

What I took from last year was that the difference between winning one and not is tiny.

It took a series of bizarre circumstances, two o.gs and a fumble by the keeper and at the end of the day they lose by a pobeat

In 2014 a clash of heads had a influence on Mayos chances of contesting an AI Final v a Donegal team that were a shadow of the team that beat them in 2012.

Had Dublin been called for a pick off the ground (rightly or wrongly) with the last kick out of the first game then that would be just another example of how tiny the difference is, and no one would be talking about this Breaffy contingent.

The bounce of a ball could go your way and you win it.

I always take encouragement from the Cork team of 2010.

Five years in a row they got dumped out of the championship at the SF (one replay too) or Final by Kerry.
But in 2010 their luck comes in, there are no real contenders left and they beat Down by a point.

I'll take that sort of luck any day.

This Mayo team have been in winning positions before and "out of sight" in games. Kerry twice in 2014, versus Dublin a couple of times. They've blown big leads too. They are as good as Kerry and Dublin on their day, but for some reason, possibly minor reasons they keep blowing it. But they are doing themselves no favours with their behaviour off the field.

And if a player or players continually under performs in AI finals, they've no place in the squad. There should be no place for bottlers full stop. Its harsh, but sometimes you have to be harsh to win, and most successful managers can be brutally harsh at the same time. They do what it takes to win, not what it takes to be liked or popular.

charlie14

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I think you are over reaching a bit to suggest that this team will never win an All Ireland.

What I took from last year was that the difference between winning one and not is tiny.

It took a series of bizarre circumstances, two o.gs and a fumble by the keeper and at the end of the day they lose by a pobeat

In 2014 a clash of heads had a influence on Mayos chances of contesting an AI Final v a Donegal team that were a shadow of the team that beat them in 2012.

Had Dublin been called for a pick off the ground (rightly or wrongly) with the last kick out of the first game then that would be just another example of how tiny the difference is, and no one would be talking about this Breaffy contingent.

The bounce of a ball could go your way and you win it.

I always take encouragement from the Cork team of 2010.

Five years in a row they got dumped out of the championship at the SF (one replay too) or Final by Kerry.
But in 2010 their luck comes in, there are no real contenders left and they beat Down by a point.

I'll take that sort of luck any day.

It is a very fine line between winning and loosing an AI final, but with all the semi finals and finals this group of players have reached you seriously would have to question is there some underlying problem.
Btw, mention of Cork just brought to mind the decline in Cork senior hurling since they too revolted and sacked their manager.

Fr Tod Umptious

Shurimgreat wrote: »

This Mayo team have been in winning positions before and "out of sight" in games. Kerry twice in 2014, versus Dublin a couple of times. They've blown big leads too. They are as good as Kerry and Dublin on their day, but for some reason, possibly minor reasons they keep blowing it. But they are doing themselves no favours with their behaviour off the field.

And if a player or players continually under performs in AI finals, they've no place in the squad. There should be no place for bottlers full stop. Its harsh, but sometimes you have to be harsh to win, and most successful managers can be brutally harsh at the same time. They do what it takes to win, not what it takes to be liked or popular.

They have never been "out of sight" v Dublin since 2012.

V Kerry yes in 2014, but defensive frailties have killed them, something that was improved on in 2016.

Kalyke

Shurimgreat wrote: »

This Mayo team have been in winning positions before and "out of sight" in games. Kerry twice in 2014, versus Dublin a couple of times. They've blown big leads too. They are as good as Kerry and Dublin on their day, but for some reason, possibly minor reasons they keep blowing it. But they are doing themselves no favours with their behaviour off the field.

And if a player or players continually under performs in AI finals, they've no place in the squad. There should be no place for bottlers full stop. Its harsh, but sometimes you have to be harsh to win, and most successful managers can be brutally harsh at the same time. They do what it takes to win, not what it takes to be liked or popular.

Use of the word "bottlers" = instant deployment of ignore button....goodbye!!

charlie14

Kalyke wrote: »

Use of the word "bottlers" = instant deployment of ignore button....goodbye!!

I would travel the country quite a bit and nowadays it`s an expression I hear more and more in relation to Mayo football.

Many GAA people I have come in contact with were annoyed over the treatment by the players of H&C, and a lot of the goodwill I would have seen prior to that isn`t there anymore.

PressRun

charlie14 wrote: »

I would travel the country quite a bit and nowadays it`s an expression I hear more and more in relation to Mayo football.

Many GAA people I have come in contact with were annoyed over the treatment by the players of H&C, and a lot of the goodwill I would have seen prior to that isn`t there anymore.

Who cares?

statto25

I find it hard to believe anyone else in the country gives two flying ****es what happened to Holmes and Connelly. If that statement is indeed true, it's fairly pathetic that you travel the country and you bring up that particular topic on your travels. It's almost like it's your goal in life to avenge the wrongs done to Pat and Ray.

Or, you could be just talking through your hat....

charlie14

statto25 wrote: »

I find it hard to believe anyone else in the country gives two flying ****es what happened to Holmes and Connelly. If that statement is indeed true, it's fairly pathetic that you travel the country and you bring up that particular topic on your travels. It's almost like it's your goal in life to avenge the wrongs done to Pat and Ray.

Or, you could be just talking through your hat....

Perhaps the people you meet only discuss Mayo football and ignore any mention of anything controversial in their own county or other counties, but I have found that isn`t the case with the vast majority of GAA supporters or players.

I don`t know if you are confusing me with another poster, but I have yet to see player revolts that oust managers ending well.
From what I have seen the manager coming in is hamstrung and the result has been players being allowed to remain past their sell by date resulting in team performance being effected and the knock on effect into the future.
Cork hurlers being a case in point.
I`m not a fan of the tail wagging the dog.

charlie14

PressRun wrote: »

Who cares?

Doesn`t bother me.
I`m just telling you how it now is.

PressRun

charlie14 wrote: »

Doesn`t bother me.
I`m just telling you how it now is.

And why bother coming in here telling people that? People who don't know what went on under Holmes and Connelly getting "annoyed" about it and pontificating about what should or shouldn't be happening in another county's set-up can probably find some better use for their time.

People seem to love saying things like "well, the neutrals won't support them now", as if the neutrals' support is the end all and be all. Honestly, who gives a flying **** what the neutrals think? Players don't go out to play for neutrals.

charlie1980

Well ?Rochford is signing his own demise if he refuses to lay down the law to the Mayo panel.
There is no easy way of saying it but Hennelly and Dillon have to be be culled from the panel and the O'Sheas have to be told to STFU

charlie14

PressRun wrote: »

And why bother coming in here telling people that? People who don't know what went on under Holmes and Connelly getting "annoyed" about it and pontificating about what should or shouldn't be happening in another county's set-up can probably find some better use for their time.

People seem to love saying things like "well, the neutrals won't support them now", as if the neutrals' support is the end all and be all. Honestly, who gives a flying **** what the neutrals think? Players don't go out to play for neutrals.

I think at this stage people have a fair idea what went on under Holmes and Connelly after their interview especially, gave pause for thought for many on the AI replay goalkeeper decision.

Players by their nature, if they are focused as they should be on winning an AI, really don`t give a flying **** about anyone, let alone neutrals imo. As a group they have too be totally focused within their own group.
Winning an AI means the team supporters can join in celebrating their triumph, but teams have one focus for their own reason. Winning an AI.
Supporters, in my opinion at least, should have a longer view into the future, and just slavish support may no be the best way too go in that regard.

Shurimgreat

charlie1980 wrote: »

Well ?Rochford is signing his own demise if he refuses to lay down the law to the Mayo panel.
There is no easy way of saying it but Hennelly and Dillon have to be be culled from the panel and the O'Sheas have to be told to STFU

I agree totally with this Charlie. Too many sacred cows in Mayo football.

How Gavin dealt with Bernard Brogan for the AI final replay demonstrates why he is a great manager. There is no such thing as an undroppable player for Gavin and if a player underperforms even in one game there's a good chance he's dropped to the bench for the next game. Gavin like all good managers can spot trends and he can also spot when a player is struggling.

Supporters can make a difference. For a start they can demand something better than mediocrity. Sadly a large number of very vocal Mayo supporters are reluctant to criticise players or the management. This "nice guy" mentality will do nothing for future success.

You win AI's by not repeating the mistakes of the past and unfortunately Mayo managers and players keep repeating the mistakes of the past.

PressRun

charlie14 wrote: »

I think at this stage people have a fair idea what went on under Holmes and Connelly after their interview especially, gave pause for thought for many on the AI replay goalkeeper decision.

Ah, OK. A one-sided article is the last word so.

Barlett

Look lads don't worry about it- Charlie you in particular. Soon enough we'll be Sh1t again & nobody will be talking about us.

MayoAreMagic

charlie14 wrote: »

Perhaps the people you meet only discuss Mayo football and ignore any mention of anything controversial in their own county or other counties, but I have found that isn`t the case with the vast majority of GAA supporters or players

Perhaps the people you meet are just winding you up?
We generally get a great laugh out of filling Dubs up with the sh*te that we know they want to hear and sending them on their way... Not before mentioning how great they are a few times too, they love that, and you have to keep that cash cow sweet. Like McHale park isn't going to pay for itself, and I have my eye on a nice fur coat for this cold snap...

By the way, did the missus ever manage to get AOS to sign her two autograph books? Or has she moved on to Tom Parsons? Them curls...

Jaden

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Like McHale park isn't going to pay for itself, and I have my eye on a nice fur coat for this cold snap...

Given that the GAA had to bailout the loan debt on McHale, Mayo don't even pay for McHale, technically.

They'd eat ya for wearing a fur coat in the stands, I'd suggest a good, solid umbrella, and a cap with ear-flaps. Never underestimate the value of ear-flaps for League games.

Speaking of which, with Dublin, Kerry and Tyrone all being away fixtures, I reckon the Donegal game at the pointy end of the league in April might be worth a trip up for. It's little early to speculate, but would there be a decent crowd expected for that?

PressRun

Jaden wrote: »

Speaking of which, with Dublin, Kerry and Tyrone all being away fixtures, I reckon the Donegal game at the pointy end of the league in April might be worth a trip up for. It's little early to speculate, but would there be a decent crowd expected for that?

I would imagine so. There'll probably be a big enough crowd at most of the matches. I know of plenty of people intending to travel for the away fixtures, so I'd say there'll be even more for the home ones.

MayoAreMagic

Jaden wrote: »

They'd eat ya for wearing a fur coat in the stands, I'd suggest a good, solid umbrella, and a cap with ear-flaps. Never underestimate the value of ear-flaps for League games.

Not when we are all wearing them! $$$

charlie14

PressRun wrote: »

Ah, OK. A one-sided article is the last word so.

It was an article that in light of the goalkeeping disaster of the All Ireland Final replay did raise questions in peoples minds, and I`d imagine quite a few of those being Mayo supporters.

A one-sided article only remains one-sided if it is left that way.
I don`t see how H&C can be blamed for that.

charlie14

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Perhaps the people you meet are just winding you up?
We generally get a great laugh out of filling Dubs up with the sh*te that we know they want to hear and sending them on their way... Not before mentioning how great they are a few times too, they love that, and you have to keep that cash cow sweet. Like McHale park isn't going to pay for itself, and I have my eye on a nice fur coat for this cold snap...

By the way, did the missus ever manage to get AOS to sign her two autograph books? Or has she moved on to Tom Parsons? Them curls...

Seeing as you are unable to distinguish which poster you are responding too, it was probably a stretch expecting you could consider anything other than your own narrowly focused view.

PressRun

charlie14 wrote: »

It was an article that in light of the goalkeeping disaster of the All Ireland Final replay did raise questions in peoples minds, and I`d imagine quite a few of those being Mayo supporters.

A one-sided article only remains one-sided if it is left that way.
I don`t see how H&C can be blamed for that.

It was an article that was liberal with the facts and with some carefully omitted information that allowed people who read it to think they know it all.

Frankly, Holmes and Connelly aren't privy to what's going on in Stephen Rochford's dressing room or what went on behind closed doors in the lead up to the replay and to undermine his management just because they were poor man managers is very bad form. It's not for them to make thinly veiled insinuations about what is going on under subsequent management and to claim that they're doing it for the good of Mayo football is a barefaced lie, tbh. I know one half of the duo and he has a bigger ego than the entire Mayo squad combined and it doesn't surprise me in the least that he did the most talking and took this opportunity to paint himself as a hard done by victim.

Anyway, I'm done rehashing the same nonsense points over and over.

charlie14

PressRun wrote: »

It was an article that was liberal with the facts and with some carefully omitted information that allowed people who read it to think they know it all.

Frankly, Holmes and Connelly aren't privy to what's going on in Stephen Rochford's dressing room or what went on behind closed doors in the lead up to the replay and to undermine his management just because they were poor man managers is very bad form. It's not for them to make thinly veiled insinuations about what is going on under subsequent management and to claim that they're doing it for the good of Mayo football is a barefaced lie, tbh. I know one half of the duo and he has a bigger ego than the entire Mayo squad combined and it doesn't surprise me in the least that he did the most talking and took this opportunity to paint himself as a hard done by victim.

Anyway, I'm done rehashing the same nonsense points over and over.

Whether people like it or not what was said in that article is going to hang around this present squad like a bad smell.

The only way I can see that changing is for Rochford to categorically deny that he was approached or influenced by any member of the squad to start Hennelly rather than Clarke for the replay.

charlie1980

charlie14 wrote: »

Whether people like it or not what was said in that article is going to hang around this present squad like a bad smell.

The only way I can see that changing is for Rochford to categorically deny that he was approached or influenced by any member of the squad to start Hennelly rather than Clarke for the replay.

Absolutely!
Clarke payed the price(imo that decision cost Mayo an All Ireland) and he would be well in his rights to walk away.Clarke is an unassuming guy but I hope for his sake and the good of Mayo football that this cabal of players with in this Mayo group are told to f**k off once and for all.