Recruitment for British army soars in Republic of Ireland

eeguy · 05-01-2017 10:33PM

cameramonkey wrote: »

You may seek to define yourself in that way but I think most Irish people would not.

Most people would not. And it's led to a vast majority of humanities problems.

Irish vs English
The English vs. the French
the Entente vs the Central Powers
The Allies vs the Axis
US vs the Russians
The West vs the Middle East

Even the silly Pale vs the rest of Ireland sh*te that people go on about.

The "us vs. them" mentality is a scourge on humanity

Lt Dan wrote: »

"The State" ? As in , the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, whose Head of State was King George?

Wow, how does one break this to you.......... when the boys came back after fighting for King and Country ie The State.............. they waged war on The State , seeking to break up that State and seeking Independence for Ireland.......

And then promptly started kicking the sh*t out of each other in the Civil War.

Lt Dan · 05-01-2017 10:36PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The British Army on the streets of NI shooting Irish children is still a possibility. They could even be deployed against loyalists who I believe are Irish people.
That an Irish person thinks of career first when joining such a force I find morally unjustifiable. It is no accident that I and others would find ourselves ideologically opposed to such a career choice.

With all due respect, with their campaign against ISIS and Issue with Russia, there is more chance that a woman being elected Pope than the Brits being on the street and shooting Irish children . Talk about undermining themselves. Jarry would be creaming himself. The propaganda .........There is more chance of children in drug gangs shooting at the cops than your example

Lt Dan · 05-01-2017 10:38PM

maryishere wrote: »

Hundreds of thousands of Irish people have served in the British armed forces. Relatively few people served in the IRA and fewer again served in both.

No, you don't say. I would never have known that;) Sure, James Connolly even lied about his age to get a job in the BA.

You miss the point gloriously.

Those very few , or handful as one would suggest, were a very large thorn in the side of the British Forces and more importantly, the Politicians

Fratton Fred · 05-01-2017 10:45PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It implies stupidity. Where do you think 'Taking the Mick' came from?.

From the cockney rhyming slang, Mickey Bliss.

Lt Dan · 05-01-2017 10:48PM

eeguy wrote: »

And then promptly started kicking the sh*t out of each other in the Civil War.

Thus, further undermining the claim that there was no danger to "The State" by former WW1 boys.

Sure Emmett Dalton, a Veteran of The Somme and Palestine, reaching a lofty rank of Major, doncha know? Even received a Military Cross

Of course, his finely honed skills were useful in Collins' squad, and later , of course, actually commanding the Free State Battalion's assault on the Four Courts, which had been ordered by Churchill himself. Sure at least had the manners to head up to the Lieutenant General's House to apologizing for canon fire hitting Phoenix Park rather than the intended target of the Four Courts.

maryishere · 05-01-2017 10:48PM

Lt Dan wrote: »

You miss the point gloriously.

No I did not, I demolished your point made previously that most or all returning servicemen fought against the state on returning home after WW1 etc. You claimed earlier "when the boys came back after fighting for King and Country ie The State.............. they waged war on The State "

You do realise the IRA here was interned during WW2? And during the "troubles" killed some of our Gardai and army?

FrancieBrady · 05-01-2017 10:50PM

maryishere wrote: »

warmongers? But for them we would be speaking German or Russian. Who went to the aid of little Catholic Belgium in WW1? Who stood up alone to the Nazis in 1940? Who helped the airlift in to Berlin in 1945? Who stood (along with USA etc ) to defend the west in the Cold war. Who (along with dozens of other countries) protected the wests oil supplies when Kuwait was invaded by Iraq ( saddam Hussein) and raped in Gulf War 1?

True history would show you the British rarely 'stood' on their own anywhere. Their military might being based on what they scooped from their colonies and conscription etc. They were more or less a beaten docket if the yanks hadn't saved their bacon in WW2.

But as usual you neglect to mention even one negative in your cute hat doffing.
And it is 'cute' at this stage so fabulously genuflective has your deference become.

Lt Dan · 05-01-2017 10:51PM

maryishere wrote: »

Hundreds of thousands of Irish people have served in the British armed forces. Relatively few people served in the IRA and fewer again served in both.

Considering how many Irish, north and south never came home from France....that would have been hard to serve both armies. Quite a few offered shelter and food to the Flying Columns ...

end of the road · 05-01-2017 10:53PM

eeguy wrote: »

That sort of 19th century deluded nationalism is the reason we have all this sh*t in the first place.
Maybe if you's let go of your grudges and your prejudices and stopped digging at the wounds of people long since dead we might actually have a bit of unity on this island of ours.

you're grand thanks, i will continue to enjoy having contempt for the british army and those who serve, especially if they are irish.

maryishere · 05-01-2017 10:58PM

Lt Dan wrote: »

Considering how many Irish, north and south never came home from France....that would have been hard to serve both armies..

Not the point. Most who joined did actually return. I demolished your point made previously that claimed most or all returning servicemen fought against the state on returning home after WW1 etc.

Lt Dan wrote: »

Quite a few offered shelter and food to the Flying Columns ...

So now its only "quite a few". Next you will be saying it was 8 or 10, you do not know.

FrancieBrady · 05-01-2017 11:00PM

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

What?

You said you didn't blame guys who joined the BA to get to do what they trained to do.

That isn't an excuse. There is a moral decision to be made before taking up arms for a foreign force. Do you subscribe to the goals of that army and government for instance.

end of the road · 05-01-2017 11:03PM

Falthyron wrote: »

The deluded lad probably has British ancestry. Wouldn't that be hilarious?

what would it matter? i'm only interested in turncoats serving in a world terrorist organisation.

maryishere · 05-01-2017 11:05PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

True history would show you the British rarely 'stood' on their own anywhere.

Correct, in the Cold war and WW2 for example, many other countries stood by their side and sent volunteers in their thousands, as a Canadian said to me recently, having seen the huge Christmas tree the Norwegian government give annually to the British as a symbolic thanks for their help and loyalty in WW2.

Fratton Fred · 05-01-2017 11:05PM

end of the road wrote: »

what would it matter? i'm only interested in turncoats serving in a world terrorist organisation.

I thought Jerry denied being in the IRA?

FrancieBrady · 05-01-2017 11:12PM

maryishere wrote: »

Correct, in the Cold war and WW2 for example, many other countries stood by their side and sent volunteers in their thousands, as a Canadian said to me recently, having seen the huge Christmas tree the Norwegian government give annually to the British as a symbolic thanks for their help and loyalty in WW2.

The British financed their military might from their rape of colonies resources and people.
We should all get Christmas trees.

Barry Badrinath · 05-01-2017 11:15PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You said you didn't blame guys who joined the BA to get to do what they trained to do.

That isn't an excuse. There is a moral decision to be made before taking up arms for a foreign force. Do you subscribe to the goals of that army and government for instance.

I'm not making excuses for anyone.

You ask what I subscribe to. I've been very clear in my last post.

Have you volunteered to serve your country and your people or are you just one who likes to say what others should and shouldnt do?

end of the road · 05-01-2017 11:17PM

Falthyron wrote: »

It has nothing to do with the anti-British rhetoric as demonstrated by this thread, right? Couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fear attached to pursing such a career when faced with abuse by being called 'scum', 'traitor' etc.? Yeah, you are probably right. Nothing to do with it, whatsoever.

correct it would be nothing to do with that. it would be to do with the fact that the majority care about and want to serve their own country.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I thought Jerry denied being in the IRA?

he did, and until such time as he is convicted of being in it, i believe him that he didn't serve in it.

Fratton Fred · 05-01-2017 11:23PM

end of the road wrote: »

he did, and until such time as he is convicted of being in it, i believe him that he didn't serve in it.

Excellent stuff.

Do you also believe no paras shot anyone on bloody sunday?

Fratton Fred · 05-01-2017 11:25PM

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

I'm not making excuses for anyone.

You ask what I subscribe to. I've been very clear in my last post.

Have you volunteered to serve your country and your people or are you just one who likes to say what others should and shouldnt do?

The nearest thing Fran's git to serving is table service in his local.

Presuming he is ever off his bar stool that is.

end of the road · 05-01-2017 11:27PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Excellent stuff.

Do you also believe no paras shot anyone on bloody sunday?

i don't.

05-01-2017 11:27PM

maryishere wrote: »

You think, in WW2 for example when 100,000 Irishmen volunteered to enlish in the UK armed forces,...

Ah bless you and your complete dedication to your cause and rejection of historical truth:

"At the end of December 1944, figures for the three services were provided which concluded that 37,440 men and 4,510 women born in the Twenty-Six Counties were in the armed forces.... During 1945 the figures for the South were increased to 50,000."(Source)

maryishere wrote: »

[The Irish] army had broomsticks as rifles and had bicycles instead of tanks... navy went home for dinner each day....
The propaganda coming from DeValera was far more wholesome than any coming from Britain or Europe. He set a good example in sympathising with the German embassy on the death of Hitler. It was only propoganda [sic] what Hitler did to the Jews, the disabled, the gypsies, the gays for example. Yeah, we have a great record on brainwashing people about history in Ireland.

That's some hatred for the Irish right there. More blinkered ahistorical drivel from you, also; would that be the German embassy in Ireland
... that didn't exist? And did this happen before or after your beloved British state had collaborated with Nazi Germany for six years, 1933-1939 - supporting pogroms of Jews, multiple invasions and much else before finally deciding that, wait for it, the Nazis did not represent the lesser of two evils in the battle against communism? Six years of pro-Nazi British governments by your heroes. And you're trying to get Dev for a single incident. John Bull's most entertaining deflection.

The same British state whose government refused to accept Jewish refugees in the Evian Conference in July 1938 (while the Dominican Republic, for instance, offered to accept 100,000 Jewish refugees)? I sense this reality of 1930s British anti-semitism is conveniently, but firmly, swept under the carpet in the post-war revisionism you and your fellow apologists peddle here.

If this is the worst you have on de Valera, I'll take him anyday to the state you're trying to shamelessly pass off here as a noble principled defender of Jews (and let's not mention the apartheid sectarian statelet glorious Britannia was financing in the Six Counties at the same time, and right up until March 1972.)

FrancieBrady · 05-01-2017 11:27PM

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

I'm not making excuses for anyone.

You ask what I subscribe to. I've been very clear in my last post.

Have you volunteered to serve your country and your people or are you just one who likes to say what others should and shouldnt do?

Every day I get up, work and pay tax, I serve my country.
If I went to another country and did that I would be serving it.
If you do that (and people are free to do it) then don't pretend you are not doing it.
If you join another country's army in any capacity you are swearing allegiance and a commitment to do what that country wants you to do. You are not simply getting to play with ordinance/equipment you are trained to use. It isn't simply about sating your career desires.
An accountant doesn't have to swear to serve Queen, King or country or to follow orders they may be morally against.

Lt Dan · 05-01-2017 11:31PM

maryishere wrote: »

No I did not, I demolished your point made previously that most or all returning servicemen fought against the state on returning home after WW1 etc. You claimed earlier "when the boys came back after fighting for King and Country ie The State.............. they waged war on The State "

You missed the point, luv and you refused to read what was said. You lost. Thanks for playing !

How on earth could the very young men that formed the Flying Columns could possibly have been so organised without men who had military experience?

Major Emmett Dalton & Military Cross Holder, WRE Murphy, Tom Barry, George Adamson (Athlone, one of the first Free State Officers to die just before the Four Courts ambush) , oh and Martin Doyle a Victoria Cross receiptant. If you knew who they were, you would realise that although a small number, it is rather embarrassing for the British considering they were more a nuisance to the Brits than a battalion worth of ordinary soldiers

If I had the time or was naive enough to think that you would benefit from some education , I would cite out further names of lads from my region who served in WW1 and later the Tan War. There are about 6 others (or you can read "The flag they are flying, book on the IRA in Roscommon/Athlone/Mayo regions)

This is what I said "when the boys came back after fighting for King and Country ie The State."

No where in that can you find an implication that a majority of veterans went to fight for the IRA during the Tan War. In fact many were happy to join the Gardaí and Free State Army in 1922

In fact, some IRISH WW1 men went on to serve in the RIC, even the Tans and even, worse, the Auxies. So, why does one wonder why Irishmen in British Uniform get such a hostile reception .10% of the Black & Tan’s recruits and 14% of the Auxiliaries were Irishmen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland_and_World_War_I

maryishere · 05-01-2017 11:31PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah bless you and your complete dedication to your cause and rejection of historical truth:

"At the end of December 1944, figures for the three services were provided which concluded that 37,440 men and 4,510 women born in the Twenty-Six Counties were in the armed forces.... During 1945 the figures for the South were increased to 50,000."(Source)

And from your source it says" Total figures on Irish volunteers and war workers remain uncertain, but the number of ‘new travel permits’, identity cards and passports issued to men and women in 1940-1945 was in the region of 200,000. " Many people joined to serve as nurses, work in munitions factories etc as well as serve in the armed forces.

Besides, I was referring to the island of Ireland. Your figures exclude those from the "six counties" / N. Ireland / call it what you want who volunteered : do you not think they were Ireman there too who enlisted?

A Little Pony · 05-01-2017 11:42PM

Deleted User wrote: »

maryishere wrote: »

You think, in WW2 for example when 100,000 Irishmen volunteered to enlish in the UK armed forces,...

Ah bless you and your complete dedication to your cause and rejection of historical truth:

"At the end of December 1944, figures for the three services were provided which concluded that 37,440 men and 4,510 women born in the Twenty-Six Counties were in the armed forces.... During 1945 the figures for the South were increased to 50,000."(Source)

maryishere wrote: »

[The Irish] army had broomsticks as rifles and had bicycles instead of tanks... navy went home for dinner each day....
The propaganda coming from DeValera was far more wholesome than any coming from Britain or Europe. He set a good example in sympathising with the German embassy on the death of Hitler. It was only propoganda [sic] what Hitler did to the Jews, the disabled, the gypsies, the gays for example. Yeah, we have a great record on brainwashing people about history in Ireland.

That's some hatred for the Irish right there. More blinkered ahistorical drivel from you, also; would that be the German embassy in Ireland
... that didn't exist? And did this happen before or after your beloved British state had collaborated with Nazi Germany for six years, 1933-1939 - supporting pogroms of Jews, multiple invasions and much else before finally deciding that, wait for it, the Nazis did not represent the lesser of two evils in the battle against communism? Six years of pro-Nazi British governments by your heroes. And you're trying to get Dev for a single incident. John Bull's most entertaining deflection.

The same British state whose government refused to accept Jewish refugees in the Evian Conference in July 1938 (while the Dominican Republic, for instance, offered to accept 100,000 Jewish refugees)? I sense this reality of 1930s British anti-semitism is conveniently, but firmly, swept under the carpet in the post-war revisionism you and your fellow apologists peddle here.

If this is the worst you have on de Valera, I'll take him anyday to the state you're trying to shamelessly pass off here as a noble principled defender of Jews (and let's not mention the apartheid sectarian statelet glorious Britannia was financing in the Six Counties at the same time, and right up until March 1972.)

You let the Catholic church take control, rape, enslave women in laundries, brutalize them. I don't think the Irish state has much of a leg to stand on regarding human rights when you let the Catholic Church run wild on children for decades.

Such is the outrage now by the Irish people to the Catholic Church, the pope would be safer visiting Northern Ireland than the Republic of Ireland!. A thread on this forum had absolutely nothing good to say about what they did to your country based on multiple reasons.

Lt Dan · 05-01-2017 11:43PM

maryishere wrote: »

You think, in WW2 for example when 100,000 Irishmen volunteered to enlish in the UK armed forces, that Ireland was "a highly militarized country"? I think our army had broomsticks as rifles and had bicycles instead of tanks, our navy went home for dinner each day and our air force...

The propaganda coming from DeValera was far more wholesome than any coming from Britain or Europe. He set a good example in sympathising with the German embassy on the death of Hitler. It was only propoganda what Hitler did to the Jews, the disabled, the gypsies, the gays for example. Yeah, we have a great record on brainwashing people about history in Ireland.

Yawn

As a neutral country, isolated away from European mainland, with no issues with anyone, why would we have needed all that military ware? We had more threats from the US and the British about ignoring our policy of neutrality than Hitler's people chucking a few warning bombs on Dublin

The actions of Eamon De Valera, President of a "neutral country", on learning on the death of Adolf Hitler, where no different to response of a neutral country learning the news of the death of the President of the United States of America , shortly before. In fact, they went further, as a mark of respect, Dail was adjourned for the day as a mark of respect for the US President. In addition De Valera met US Ambassador and personal friend of the deceased President. Funny how that always gets ignored.

Least let us not forget the Pathe propaganda about locals in the whest offer tay and cake to gerries in Subs. Funny no actual evidence was found . Strange that their concerns left them when the US joined up and the sea battle had eased. The OSS removed all doubt when they came over to Ireland after the war to check it out.

Churchill did not have much concern about what Hitler was getting up to with the Jews etc either, nor did he have any concern whatsoever about the welfare of Polish fighter pilots who served in the Battle of Britain when they went home and were oddly interned by the Soviets . So , spare us the faux rage, please.

Junkyard Tom · 05-01-2017 11:45PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

the Catholic church.

What's that got to do with the British state collaborating with the Nazis in the 1930's?

Nothing. You're a WUM, and not a very good one.

Barry Badrinath · 05-01-2017 11:48PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Every day I get up, work and pay tax, I serve my country.
If I went to another country and did that I would be serving it.
If you do that (and people are free to do it) then don't pretend you are not doing it.
If you join another country's army in any capacity you are swearing allegiance and a commitment to do what that country wants you to do. You are not simply getting to play with ordinance/equipment you are trained to use. It isn't simply about sating your career desires.
An accountant doesn't have to swear to serve Queen, King or country or to follow orders they may be morally against.

You seem to think I am defending Irish people serving in another military and then lecturing me about it.

I am merely offering the actual reason for why some lads are doing it. They are not my reasons, they are their reasons.

Dont for another second lecture me on morals, allegience or commitment. My allegience is to Ireland and its people, including you. End of.

What others choose to do is their choice, it doesnt matter what we think of their decision especially if its an area which you actually have zero stake in.

Thats all I have to say to you on this topic.

maryishere · 05-01-2017 11:48PM

Lt Dan wrote: »

There are about 6 others

lol. The vast majority of the hundreds of thousands of Irish people who served in British forces over the years were decent law abiding people and were not terrorists.

maryishere · 05-01-2017 11:51PM

Lt Dan wrote: »

Yawn

As a neutral country, isolated away from European mainland, with no issues with anyone, why would we have needed all that military ware?

Before you go off on your rant, I was merely reply to the assertion that was made that " Ireland was "a highly militarized country""
Glad you agree now it was not.

Recruitment for British army soars in Republic of Ireland

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