Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Finland to test 'universal basic income' for the unemployed

  • 29-12-2016 09:57PM
    #1
    peasant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,789 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    A group of 2,000 unemployed people in Finland will receive a basic income every month from the state, tax-free and with no strings attached. Proponents hope to prove such schemes boost people's motivation to find work.
    http://www.dw.com/en/finland-to-test-universal-basic-income-for-the-unemployed/a-36928824

    Well ..this will be an interesting experiment.
    I for one hope it will work and will serve as an example for other economies

    [AH mode] start background music: Dire Straits, money for nothing [/AH mode]


«134567…17

Comments

  • #2
    Saipanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭Saipanne


    I always wondered why other people don't pay for my lifestyle?

    Yay. Bring it on.


  • #3
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    So...............dole? With an incentive for employers to pay less ?


  • #4
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Its not a universal basic income unless everyone gets including the employed retired, student in fact everybody.


  • #5
    kippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,337 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Its not a universal basic income unless everyone gets including the employed retired, student in fact everybody.

    Where was universal mentioned?


  • #6
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,878 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Some snippets from the OP:
    Starting in January, 2,000 unemployed people in Finland will begin receiving 560 euros ($585) every month from the state with no strings attached.
    "We think that this could be a big incentive for people to take on at least part-time work," said Marjukka Turunen, head of Kela's legal affairs unit.
    Recipients will not pay tax on the basic income, even if they find work and earn a salary in addition to it.

    Turunen said many unemployed people who receive social benefits in Finland don't want to take smaller jobs because they fear that, after tax, they will be worse off than before.


  • Advertisement
  • #7
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    kippy wrote: »
    Where was universal mentioned?

    Did you read the title of the thread


    Finland to test 'universal basic income' for the unemployed


  • #8
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    With all the automation and elimination of semi-skilled forms of employment, it makes sense to de-stigmatise the fact of being unemployed. The basic income will only provide for a survivable way of life of course.

    All jobs would need to pay enough to make it worthwhile getting to a place of work each day and back again and the basic income would need to remain to maintain an improvement in standards of living.


  • #9
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Saipanne wrote: »
    I always wondered why other people don't pay for my lifestyle?

    Yay. Bring it on.
    It would be far cheaper to administer than the current social welfare system as the money goes into the bank accounts of every (legal) citizen in the country, one cloud computer system would do the work of thousands of civil servants.


  • #10
    mickdw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,804 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    I believe it's the way forward.
    Give every person of working age 188 per week.
    Set tax credits so that someone earning say 25k lose all that 188 per week in extra tax compared to current tax rates so for the full time workers there is zero net cost to this.
    There should be little in the way of additional benefits over and above the 188 but obviously some room depending on circumstances.
    I believe there will be massive savings in terms of fraudulent claims and administration.
    The biggest advantage of course will be the incentive to work. No more would you have the situation where you are better off on the dole. Under this scheme if you only earned 50 quid per week, you will be better off than deciding to sit in the house.


  • #11
    kippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,337 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Did you read the title of the thread


    Finland to test 'universal basic income' for the unemployed

    Apologies - trip to specsavers required!


  • Advertisement
  • #12
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    mickdw wrote: »
    I believe it's the way forward.
    Give every person of working age 188 per week.
    Set tax credits so that someone earning say 25k lose all that 188 per week in extra tax compared to current tax rates so for the full time workers there is zero net cost to this.
    There should be little in the way of additional benefits over and above the 188 but obviously some room depending on circumstances.
    I believe there will be massive savings in terms of fraudulent claims and administration.
    The biggest advantage of course will be the incentive to work. No more would you have the situation where you are better off on the dole. Under this scheme if you only earned 50 quid per week, you will be better off than deciding to sit in the house.

    And another bonus it would eliminate all the foaming at the mouth rage at welfare recipients (maybe)


  • #13
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,577 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    This will be the only option for governments worldwide due to automation/robotics/ai.

    By 2030, 2bn jobs worldwide will be lost to progress. Approx 50% of all current positions.
    Due to this efficiency and 'economies of scale' it's unlikely that many new roles will need to be created.


  • #14
    user2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,071 ✭✭✭user2011


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    With all the automation and elimination of semi-skilled forms of employment, it makes sense to de-stigmatise the fact of being unemployed. The basic income will only provide for a survivable way of life of course.

    All jobs would need to pay enough to make it worthwhile getting to a place of work each day and back again and the basic income would need to remain to maintain an improvement in standards of living.

    I'm shocked, unemployed, thread, boards and sense just don't make umm, sense.


  • #15
    Saipanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭Saipanne


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    It would be far cheaper to administer than the current social welfare system as the money goes into the bank accounts of every (legal) citizen in the country, one cloud computer system would do the work of thousands of civil servants.

    So thousands more jobs are lost?


  • #16
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    mickdw wrote: »
    Set tax credits so that someone earning say 25k lose all that 188 per week in extra tax compared to current tax rates so for the full time workers there is zero net cost to this.
    No the basic income should be universal, like child benefit.

    The basic income will be taken into account when calculating the PAYE of employees for tax purposes.
    Wages will adjust to reflect this basic income for the earners in the same way as the rents rose to soak up any housing benefits that people were given to enable them to rent in some cities.


  • #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Saipanne wrote: »
    So thousands more jobs are lost?
    It's going that way already, more automation & cloud computing taking away their jobs.


  • #18
    Saipanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭Saipanne


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    It's going that way already, more automation & cloud computing taking away their jobs.

    Can I get free money? Because all I see every month are hands in my paycheck.


  • #19
    peasant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,789 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    Saipanne wrote: »
    Can I get free money? Because all I see every month are hands in my paycheck.

    It's never going to be free, just unconditional.


  • #20
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Saipanne wrote: »
    Can I get free money? Because all I see every month are hands in my paycheck.
    Sure! Become a central banker, then you can print as much as you want.


  • #21
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,577 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Money will only be available electronically shortly, paper-printed notes will become void.

    To see if you'll become a 'UBI recipient', read the occupation checklists for 2030 and beyond...


  • Advertisement
  • #22
    Saipanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭Saipanne


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Sure! Become a central banker, then you can print as much as you want.

    That's a no then. Guess I'll have to keep funding the lifestyle of the lazy.


  • #23
    Saipanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭Saipanne


    peasant wrote: »
    It's never going to be free, just unconditional.

    It's free for people who get my tax contribution.


  • #24
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Saipanne wrote: »
    That's a no then. Guess I'll have to keep funding the lifestyle of the lazy.

    I don't you get how this works.


  • #25
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Without your dedication, Saipanne, the whole show would grind to a halt.


  • #26
    Saipanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭Saipanne


    mariaalice wrote: »
    I don't you get how this works.

    I do. I earn money. The state takes half. That money goes to people who don't work. Same as before.


  • #27
    Saipanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭Saipanne


    Water John wrote: »
    Without your dedication, Saipanne, the whole show would grind to a halt.

    Without the dedication of hard-working people like me, yes, the gravy train would derail.


  • #28
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    Saipanne wrote: »
    Can I get free money? Because all I see every month are hands in my paycheck.

    Become a Developer, take loans of billions of Euro, live the life of Riley, go bankrupt, run to the UK and stay there a year, come back and start again!

    Without paying back a penny!

    P.S. Make sure you give a few brown envelopes of cash to FF politicians though.


  • #29
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Matteo Fat Jug wrote: »
    Money will only be available electronically shortly, paper-printed notes will become void.

    To see if you'll become a 'UBI recipient', read the occupation checklists for 2030 and beyond...
    Fortunately, I'll be retired by then (unless I need to continue because the pension system gets fúcked up in the meantime).
    My IT role involves a lot of cable patching and configuration, so would be half safe in the future, the configuration part can easily be automated. But the manual elements of networking are almost impossible to completely automate as people will always be needed to install the kit into racks.


  • #30
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    The majority of us pay taxes. Its what runs the system. It's about time we began to get imaginative with the problems.
    It's time for another phase, what ever direction that may take.
    A big leap, as per Nye Bevan.

    Then some wish to go back to before his time.


  • Advertisement
  • #31
    Fr_Dougal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,166 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    Ulysses Gaze wrote: »
    Become a Developer, take loans of billions of Euro, live the life of Riley, go bankrupt, run to the UK and stay there a year, come back and start again!

    Without paying back a penny!

    P.S. Make sure you give a few brown envelopes of cash to FF politicians though.

    You forgot the part where these bankrupt developers get re-employed by NAMA.


Advertisement